is this hereford simm?

[Nesikep]

I was just looking through my old pictures and found a good picture of "Josie", which is one of the cows who gave me a lot of great calves in her time, she died 4 years ago at 16 years old.. I think she's about 14 in the picture.. I think she was about 50/50 hereford simm, and it was probably the sire that was sim.. what do you think

GrandDaughter Lizzy (1/2 shorthorn)

 

[jkwilson]

I don't see anything but Hereford. Sim influence tends to put color around the eyes. She'd be considered to carry a lot of white for a Hereford today.

 

[Nesikep]

I just find her fur is rather short and straight for hereford.. I know the ranch where we got her from did use simm... I don't mean to argue it, just to gather opinions..

 

[KNERSIE]

She looks like she's the result of hereford X friesian (given the location holstein is more likely) bred back to a hereford.

 

[tripleBfarms]

I think I saw Roy and Gabby ride by in the background of that 2nd pic. :D

She looks like she has a little something else mixed in with the hereford to me. Maybe 3/4 hereford.

 

[hillsdown]

She looks like she's the result of hereford X friesian (given the location holstein is more likely) bred back to a hereford.

If she was holstien she would have blk or grey in her. She also has the worse feet ,legs and top line that I have ever seen in a long time, so I am sure she is not Holstien. ;-)

Sorry Nesikep, she is a really ugly cow :help: , glad she gave you some good calves. She looks like a bad fleckvieh(sp/) bred to a bad herf ..

 

[dun]

Since that many years ago the majority of the red Simmenthal were traditionally marked, if she had any Simmenthal in her I would expect the neck patch to be across the neck rather then straight down it like a Hereford.

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

She looks like some of the herf/simm cows I drive past on the way home. Plenty of Flecks don't have eye pigment. She's probably a 3/4 herf 1/4 simm looking at her traits. Her head is certainly a little more simm like to me. Hmm, interesting.

 

[KNERSIE]

She looks like she's the result of hereford X friesian (given the location holstein is more likely) bred back to a hereford.

If she was holstien she would have blk or grey in her.

Nope, there is no diluter gene in holsteins as far as I know and there shouldn't be any in hereford so grey is out of the question, I had many, many bred just like that that looked just like her.

She also has the worse feet ,legs and top line that I have ever seen in a long time, so I am sure she is not Holstien. ;-)

Your point being? :shock:

Sorry Nesikep, she is a really ugly cow :help: , glad she gave you some good calves. She looks like a bad fleckvieh(sp/) bred to a bad herf ..

The head belongs to neither hereford nor simmental and she is far too light boned for any fleckvieh influence up close.

 

[angus9259]

A man with one watch knows the time. A man with two is confused.

 

[VanC]

If she was holstien she would have blk or grey in her.

Why? My uncle had a couple of cows that were 3/4 Hereford and 1/4 Holstein. You could see some dairy influence in them but both were dark red and marked like Herefords.

 

[hillsdown]

She looks like she's the result of hereford X friesian (given the location holstein is more likely) bred back to a hereford.

If she was holstien she would have blk or grey in her.

Nope, there is no diluter gene in holsteins as far as I know and there shouldn't be any in hereford so grey is out of the question, I had many, many bred just like that that looked just like her. Did not know that Herfs didn't ever have a diluter gene but yes Holsteins definitely don't.

She also has the worse feet ,legs and top line that I have ever seen in a long time, so I am sure she is not Holstein. ;-)

Your point being? :shock: That was tongue and cheek ergo the wink, I have seen many many uglier Holsteins ,but they usually milked like tanks. Even had a few that when the classifier came you made sure to hide them elsewhere ,they were that ugly.

Sorry Nesikep, she is a really ugly cow :help: , glad she gave you some good calves. She looks like a bad fleckvieh(sp/) bred to a bad herf ..

The head belongs to neither hereford nor simmental and she is far too light boned for any fleckvieh influence up close.

Her ears definitely look Holstein now that I compare . The reason I said blk or grey is the neighbors bought some 3 teeters from us for nurse cows and they raised purebred reg herfs, when they bred the Holsteins to a Herf bull the offspring was always a blk baldy and then when the calf was bred to a Herf bull the resulting calf was a blk baldy too and 1,2 was/were actually grey (I remember this because it was twins and she rejected one and I bottle fed it colostrum). Maybe it was bred by a different bull other than Herf. Even when I breed a Holstein to a red GV bull the calf is always blk with a patch of white then bred again the calf is blk again unless the bull carries the diluter gene and the it is sometimes grey . Would love to ask him if maybe a different bull got in there, but unfortunately he has alzheimer's now :( .

Maybe the Holstein was a red factor cow .

 

[VanC]

HD- If I understood Knersie correctly, he's saying that the cow pictured looks like she could be 3/4 Hereford and 1/4 Holstein. If that's the case, the Holstein in the mix wouldn't have to carry the red factor for her to be red.

 

[KNERSIE]

HD- If I understood Knersie correctly, he's saying that the cow pictured looks like she could be 3/4 Hereford and 1/4 Holstein. If that's the case, the Holstein in the mix wouldn't have to carry the red factor for her to be red.

yep, that is what I implied and yes the original holstein cow didn't need the red factor for the 2nd generation to be red.

 

[randiliana]

I see not a bad looking cow for 14 years old. Looks to me like she is the kind that can raise a calf. Maybe a little light boned, but she still has some muscle to her. 14 is generally getting pretty old around here anyways, and I wouldn't expect her to look like a 5 year old! As far as breed goes, looks more straight Hereford to me, but I've seen Simm/Hereford that look like that too.

 

[Brandonm22]

I see not a bad looking cow for 14 years old. Looks to me like she is the kind that can raise a calf. Maybe a little light boned, but she still has some muscle to her. 14 is generally getting pretty old around here anyways, and I wouldn't expect her to look like a 5 year old! As far as breed goes, looks more straight Hereford to me, but I've seen Simm/Hereford that look like that too.

Exactly, I would expect a 14 year old to be showing excessive weakness in her pasterns and her topline and for her to have lost her buttend. That is just aging in a cow.....and judging by the "hills" in that second photo raising calves in that country is going to take a physical toll. The only visual evaluation you need to be doing on a 14 year old is whether or not she can make it another year. If somebody wants to tell me that she is 100% Hereford I can believe it. If somebody wants to tell me she is a 1/4 Simmental I can believe that too. I don't see the Holstein though.

 

[Nesikep]

hehe, I will have to say toplines are not the strong suit of that line, the bottom lines are better... we've had one cow in the line not successfully raise a calf once, I think I've had close to 40 calves from her and her daughters now

Around here it seems to be their teeth that wear down.. dont ask me why, the pastures are pretty nice, her daughter is Rosie (now 15) and she's starting to lose condition a little bit, hence my thread about floating teeth a while back

 

[Northern Rancher]

She could be off the Hereford bull Titan 7777 the simmental in him didn't always show either-if she pays her way on your outfit that's all that matters-pretty is as pretty does.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I don't see any Simmental influence - color, bone, eyes, head. But, noone can tell by looking. Some 1/2 bloods only "show" traits from the one parent.
(I sure hope she isn't Simmental :lol: :lol: )

 

[Northern Rancher]

I'll take an ugly 16 year old that produced to the end-there's enough pretty dry three year olds to go around.