Is Embryo Transfer feasible ?

[kjonesel]

I have been interested in ET for 30 years but am only now seriously considering it. I don't even know if there is an embryologist in our area (South Central Indiana). What would the cost per live calf generally add up to? Without knowing anyone who has done it I have no one to ask.

 

[bigbull338]

if you have a donor that you really want calves out of an can sell them then its worth it.i dont know what it costs to set a cow up an flush her.but i do know its not as high as it used tobe.the recipe cows are whats costly.unless you have some you can use.i have a friend that flushed 3 cows a few days ago an got 50 eggs.he trys to implant an calve 150 ET calves a year or more.

 

[kjonesel]

Thanks for the answer. I didn't realize that the recipient cows were the cost .

 

[cowmilker]

There is a vet I used who lives around Richmond Indiana. PM me if you want his name and number. Craig

 

[bigbull338]

Thanks for the answer. I didn't realize that the recipient cows were the cost .

yes the recipes cost from $900 to $1100 or more.

 

[Massey135]

Thanks for the answer. I didn't realize that the recipient cows were the cost .

yes the recipes cost from $900 to $1100 or more.

For that cost I would use my own cattle as recips. Use your best cow for the donor and the rest for recips.

 

[hillsdown]

There are so many factors involved that no one can give you an accurate response regarding costs. You will need to contact an embryologist and go from there, according to your needs. Extra added costs are sync'ng drugs and whether or not you are doing ET on the day you flush or if you plan on freezing the embryos.

Make sure you use only your most fertile cattle as recips . Contrary to what some say have said before here at CT, especially if it is not their money being spent , old dairy cows are NOT good viable recips .

 

[Cattleman200]

Kjonesel, I guess my first question before I tried to answer would be what your goals would be to use Embryo Transplant in your program? Do you have a purebred operation? We do quite a bit of ET work each year as well as collect and sell embryos. The costs usuallly vary somewhat and you would need to find the embryologist you prefer to use and get a list of his charges for their services. Most of the ET tech`s I am familiar with charge around $250 - $300 to flush and animal. Some add super ovulation drug costs and some do not which can be around another $125-$150. If you transfer fresh embryos it usually varies in the $50 -$75 range per embryo. Usually transferring frozen embryos costs about the same as fresh. You can cut your costs in half if you are able to set up recips that will work when you flush a donor cow versus freezing and then putting in frozen embryos later. Freezing embryo prices also range from $25 to $75 each. There can also be misc . charges such as travel expense, hotels. meals, etc. I would find out all charges before proceeding. We have flushed about a dozen times this fall/winter so far and have another donor being set up right now. Generally speaking if you elect to buy embryos from someone rather than flushing your own cow in a lot of cases you would be able to buy embryos from a couple of animals that you might not ever be able to purchase/own. I hope I have not confused you with the way I explained this. I am sure you can find someone in your area to do ET work. My suggestion on that would be to talk to a couple of the larger or more established seedstock breeders in your area that are utilizing ET in their program and ask who they use and if they are happy with the results. I would then contact the embryologist and follow their instructions if I was happy with what they told me. I hope this helps a little with what you wanted to know. If I can help you further just PM me or email me through my website listed on here.



Circle H Ranch

 

[kjonesel]

Cattleman200 thanks for the response. What we have is the start of a small fullblood Gelbvieh herd. We also have 7 cows that will be having their second and third calves. A fullblood breeder near us is wanting to flush one of his top cows but he would not have near enough recipients animals that he would be able to divert to this effort. It would provide me with the opportunity to have possibly seven of the breeds top calves next year. I would purchase additional embryos to have on hand in the event the flush failed which would make the cost increase but I feel that it would be necessary and I could always find some additional animals to use them in. I am in the process now of contacting an embryologist to obtain a better understanding of what would be a reasonable success rate and to know what to expect on cost.

 

[Double R Ranch]

I went to school in Mississippi at the National Embryo Transfer School. Contact Dr. Peter Elsden. He runs and is one of the founders of embryo transfer. He can lead you in the right direction for sure.
Going to embryo school been one of the best schooling experiances I have had in this business. Once I got the hang of Grading embryo's its been a breeze.
First flush on a heifer (practice flush) here on our ranch I got 9 viable embryo's 7 of which were freezeable and have in our semen tank. It was a great first flush after returning from school.
I was invited to see a long time vet and Embryologist flush a fellow breeders cow and they got one viable embryo. Its never a known thing as to how many embryo's you will get per flush. Also keeping in mind just because you flush a certain amount they all may not be freezable and in order to be used fresh you have to already have recipts lined up and timed properly.
Embryo's don't take like Ai does so don't get your hopes up to high on conception rates from embryo's. There are a lot of factors involved. We are using our commercial angus cattle as our recipiants. We have culled strongly for fertility for many years and has given us the perfect recipts. (in my opinion)
Embryo transfer can greatly jump the quality of your cattle just do your research all over the internet and talk to as many people as possible. It can be very rewarding but also can be very expensive if you are not careful. Especially using outside techs. We were trained to make our own flushing solutions etc. so its very cheep for me to do here on our ranch. If done for other people I wouldn't be able to do that.
Probably not much help. Just a few things that came to mind reading your post.
Double R

 

[kjonesel]

Double R you have provided the insight that I was seeking. I gather that as with any knowledge it's only cost effective if you use it, and it sounds like you have. I learned to AI when I was 16 and have used it through the years. I have a 16 year old son who is working toward vet school and has taken an interest in embryology and is now studying it on his own having obtained a college textbook on embryology in cattle.
It would be my goal to advance the quality of our herd and also broaden our genetic base in ways that otherwise would be unfeasible.

 

[robert]

one thing to keep in mind is that some states (the communist ones like NY where I live for example) require that you be a DVM to do ET work, so check your State laws before you go to a lot of expense taking ET school.

 

[3waycross]

Thanks for the answer. I didn't realize that the recipient cows were the cost .

yes the recipes cost from $900 to $1100 or more.

For that cost I would use my own cattle as recips. Use your best cow for the donor and the rest for recips.

I kinda see what you are saying but if he is running a registered operation his calves should be worth more than that and it makes sense to pay what is essentially the value of a commercial calf for the recip service. Doesn't it?

 

[bigbull338]

the only way it pays to use a reg recipe is if she is at the bottom of the herd as far as her genetics go.that friend of mine thats heavy into ET work only keeps about 50 reg momma cows.

 

[jedstivers]

one thing to keep in mind is that some states (the communist ones like NY where I live for example) require that you be a DVM to do ET work, so check your State laws before you go to a lot of expense taking ET school.

If your doing it for yourself why would anyone know?

 

[jedstivers]

Double R you have provided the insight that I was seeking. I gather that as with any knowledge it's only cost effective if you use it, and it sounds like you have. I learned to AI when I was 16 and have used it through the years. I have a 16 year old son who is working toward vet school and has taken an interest in embryology and is now studying it on his own having obtained a college textbook on embryology in cattle.
It would be my goal to advance the quality of our herd and also broaden our genetic base in ways that otherwise would be unfeasible.

Sounds like he needs to go through a ET school, then you Gould have a in house tec.

 

[Double R Ranch]

one thing to keep in mind is that some states (the communist ones like NY where I live for example) require that you be a DVM to do ET work, so check your State laws before you go to a lot of expense taking ET school.

That is the reason I don't do it for others as was the plan when I went to school. In CA most all the embryo guys are tight lipped and wouldn't even return my calls. Found out by fluke prior to taking on clients but after buying all the equipment, freezer etc. Here you have to work under a vet if you aren't one and finding a willing vet in CA!!! That's funny. CA stinks! Sorry went on a rant ;-)
Not sorry I went to school but it has been very hard to make all the equipment money back to date.
Live and learn.
Double R

 

[Double R Ranch]

one thing to keep in mind is that some states (the communist ones like NY where I live for example) require that you be a DVM to do ET work, so check your State laws before you go to a lot of expense taking ET school.

If your doing it for yourself why would anyone know?

It doesn't matter as long as you are only doing it on your own cattle. Where it does matter is if you aren't a certified embryologist and you PURCHASE embryo's and implant them and have less success than the guarantee you have NO grounds to the guarantee. If you read in any embryo sale it states a certain percentage that are guaranteed to take IF IMPLANTED BY A CERTIFIED EMBRYOLOGIST.
Another reason I'm still glad I shelled out the money.
Double R

 

[kjonesel]

I am an electrical contractor by trade and I have told anyone who will listen that the government has overstepped and have been taking our liberties for all of my life. The thing that I am beginning to see is a silent revolt. People are breaking the laws in record numbers not because they have gotten worse but the laws have become more ridiculous. For example just take a look and you will find people selling meat on Craigslist. Nothing wrong with it but now we have laws saying it's bad.
As far as performing the process in Indiana it would merit checking into.