Interesting if True.

[Caustic Burno]

Amen Jo

Just need to add a little more judge Roy Bean Justice in as well.

 

[backhoeboogie]

I think the new poster brings up some valid points that we should all digest and consider over a period of time. I would also recommend that everybody tread lightly, or not at all. Preferrably, not at all.

No need. 3 way summed it up nicely. My ancestors fought and some died to give me the rights I enjoy. Leave 'em alone or move to a country who meets your criteria.

 

[3waycross]

Were that a long time member who I had some respect for i might have "TREADED" differently.

They were a first post, gun control troll. I make no apologies!

FWIW I sat down and cried like a baby over the deaths of those children and cried again when i thought about how the anti's would use it to take away my constitutional right to protect myself and mine.............i have nothing else to add. It's all been said too many times.

 

[Calman]

Were that a long time member who I had some respect for i might have "TREADED" differently.

They were a first post, gun control troll. I make no apologies!

FWIW I sat down and cried like a baby over the deaths of those children and cried again when i thought about how the anti's would use it to take away my constitutional right to protect myself and mine.............i have nothing else to add. It's all been said too many times.

I'm with you on this subject.
I have already run my mouth enough so I think everyone knows where I stand so I'm gonna just remain silent.

Cal

 

[ffamom]

As a teacher, I see school districts implement stupid ideas. For one, we now have to lock all the perimeter doors. That would make sense if the GLASS doors were bullet proof. A locked glass door is going to keep the bad guy out. Really! Another, we have a full time cop at our school. However, he does have to go court and leave the property to smoke. Cops can't be everywhere and seconds do matter. It took the police 15 to 20 minutes to reach the school. Lots of damage can be done in the matter of minutes.

Did you know that the shooter in CO chose the only movie theater that didn't allow you to carry a concealed gun? These aren't not dumb people. They calculate everything. The want to be killed on their own terms.

I don't fear for my safety. There will always be crazy people and some people will do crazy things. They aren't going to make me live in a bubble. I don't want a single child or person to die. But address the mental illness problem, not the gun control issue. I do think the mom was a nut for not locking up her guns and teaching an unstable person to shoot.

During lockdown drills, we are told to lock the door and stay in the classroom. Exactly what the shooter expects us to do. I have taught my group of kids to think about what could be used if we were being attacked since I can't carry at school. Fire extinguishers, chemicals from the science labs and plan for the worst. I'm not sure is running isn't the best response if the shooter is in the other end of the building. I do know, I would give my life to save all of my students...even the pain in the rear ones.

Our violent society isn't anything new. If you doubt me on that, read the bible or medieval history. Have you been to Medieval Times and looked in the torture chamber room?

In my opinion, the best defense is a good offense with concealed weapons.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Were that a long time member who I had some respect for i might have "TREADED" differently.

They were a first post, gun control troll. I make no apologies!

FWIW I sat down and cried like a baby over the deaths of those children and cried again when i thought about how the anti's would use it to take away my constitutional right to protect myself and mine.............i have nothing else to add. It's all been said too many times.

As much as this pain's me 3 way you are dead on.
I didn't post as right off this "new person" came across as a plant or an anti.

 

[backhoeboogie]

As a teacher, I see school districts implement stupid ideas.

You have my respect, admiration, and appreciation. NOT all teachers do. All start out with my respect.

Knee jerk reactions never solve anything. Right now the media and the powers that be are still knee jerking.

 

[dun]

As a teacher, I see school districts implement stupid ideas.

You have my respect, admiration, and appreciation. NOT all teachers do. All start out with my respect.

Knee jerk reactions never solve anything. Right now the media and the powers that be are still knee jerking.

I don;t know about the knee part but I'll go along with the "jerks" part

 

[3waycross]

As a teacher, I see school districts implement stupid ideas. For one, we now have to lock all the perimeter doors. That would make sense if the GLASS doors were bullet proof. A locked glass door is going to keep the bad guy out. Really! Another, we have a full time cop at our school. However, he does have to go court and leave the property to smoke. Cops can't be everywhere and seconds do matter. It took the police 15 to 20 minutes to reach the school. Lots of damage can be done in the matter of minutes.

Did you know that the shooter in CO chose the only movie theater that didn't allow you to carry a concealed gun? These aren't not dumb people. They calculate everything. The want to be killed on their own terms.

I don't fear for my safety. There will always be crazy people and some people will do crazy things. They aren't going to make me live in a bubble. I don't want a single child or person to die. But address the mental illness problem, not the gun control issue. I do think the mom was a nut for not locking up her guns and teaching an unstable person to shoot.

During lockdown drills, we are told to lock the door and stay in the classroom. Exactly what the shooter expects us to do. I have taught my group of kids to think about what could be used if we were being attacked since I can't carry at school. Fire extinguishers, chemicals from the science labs and plan for the worst. I'm not sure is running isn't the best response if the shooter is in the other end of the building. I do know, I would give my life to save all of my students...even the pain in the rear ones.

Our violent society isn't anything new. If you doubt me on that, read the bible or medieval history. Have you been to Medieval Times and looked in the torture chamber room?

In my opinion, the best defense is a good offense with concealed weapons.

Excellant post :tiphat:

 

[Dega Moo]

Wow! That wasn't scripted and I certainly wasn't trolling. 3Way - did you actually read my post? Especially the part where I said about assault rifles "I think it impossible to control them effectively." ? I was not arguing for gun legislation. I was not arguing for gun control because I don't believe it would work.

What I was arguing and will continue to argue for is dialog (TALK for you) about solutions to the problem of protecting our society from mass murders. There are many possible solutions to this problem and those solutions don't require additional gun control involving 'non felons' or the mentally sufficient. But right now there are a lot of people talking gun control and like it or not, right now they have the upper hand in that national dialog. The US Supreme Court made it clear we have the right to our guns but they also made it clear there were legitimate limits society could put on that right. My preference is that limit be found beyond assault rifles.

Derision of the subject by gun advocates is and will be quickly dismissed by gun control advocates as simply more reactionary rhetoric from the 'crazies on the right'. Equating the shooting and killing of children in Chicago over a year, without context as to how they were shot, who shot them, when they were shot and the location of the shootings with the Newtown murders, minimizes the horror of what happened and simply plays into the hands of those who would take your guns from you and my guns from me. In other words, if you want to protect your rights to your guns, my rights to my guns, that post wasn't helpful. Think of it this way 3Way, I'm not seeking my own enlightenment but yours.

 

[backhoeboogie]

But right now there are a lot of people talking gun control and like it or not, right now they have the upper hand in that national dialog. The US Supreme Court made it clear we have the right to our guns but they also made it clear there were legitimate limits society could put on that right. My preference is that limit be found beyond assault rifles.

Those "lot of people" are probably going to wind up getting a crash course by a lot of rednecks. Calm people are now starting to get stirred up.

Ignorant people don't know the difference between assault rifles and plinkers. All they know is what the media tells them. If I were a robin, I would view a BB gun as an assault rifle.

edit: and by the way, you speak of reading, did you read what Jogee offered?

 

[Caustic Burno]

But right now there are a lot of people talking gun control and like it or not, right now they have the upper hand in that national dialog. The US Supreme Court made it clear we have the right to our guns but they also made it clear there were legitimate limits society could put on that right. My preference is that limit be found beyond assault rifles.

Those "lot of people" are probably going to wind up getting a crash course by a lot of rednecks. Calm people are now starting to get stirred up.

Ignorant people don't know the difference between assault rifles and plinkers. All they know is what the media tells them. If I were a robin, I would view a BB gun as an assault rifle.

edit: and by the way, you speak of reading, did you read what Jogee offered?

You are dead on Boogie about people getting stirred up. As divided as this country is right now it wouldn't take much to put us in a Civil War looking like Syria. This won't be good for anyone.
I don't own an AR and don't want one that doesn't mean you don't have the right to own one as a law abidding citizen.
I will be right beside you to defend that right. Now as I have said before the gun does draw the crazies that doesn't make the gun evil. Instead of outlawing the gun let's make it against the law to murder someone and see how that work's first. I think a lot of that has to do with Hollywood and today's video games. This is a slippery slope they outlaw you owning this gun next it will be that gun.
People are forgetting the second addmendment is to defend us from the govrnment.

 

[cow pollinater]

So, who is ready to join me in my New Year's resolution to spend more time being the wild eyed bearded guy that sits in his office all afternoon firing off nasty letters to congress? I got a headstart last year and I'm going strong into 2013.
It does no good to sit here and bytch if we don't take it to the powers that be. They hide behind the anonimity of their office to tell us that they're taking our money and giving it to someone else and they're taking our guns because they're scared of us :roll: ... It's time to tell them to hide behind the anonimity of their office when they start telling people that they can't have OUR money or our guns. Time to tell them that we feel safer in an armed society.
We have alot of eloquent people here but it's a waste of words if we preach to the chior.

 

[Caustic Burno]

So, who is ready to join me in my New Year's resolution to spend more time being the wild eyed bearded guy that sits in his office all afternoon firing off nasty letters to congress? I got a headstart last year and I'm going strong into 2013.
It does no good to sit here and bytch if we don't take it to the powers that be. They hide behind the anonimity of their office to tell us that they're taking our money and giving it to someone else and they're taking our guns because they're scared of us :roll: ... It's time to tell them to hide behind the anonimity of their office when they start telling people that they can't have OUR money or our guns. Time to tell them that we feel safer in an armed society.
We have alot of eloquent people here but it's a waste of words if we preach to the chior.

I have already talked to my State rep and US congressman emailed my US Senator's.

 

[cow pollinater]

I've gone through all of mine... now I'm starting on other peoples' :lol: I figure it's a slim margin of the population that speaks up so I need to speak as loud as I can. :nod:

 

[Dega Moo]

BHB - yes I've read everything here including Jogee posts. He makes a point about the 2nd Amendment essentially defining the security clause of the 2nd rather narrowly. While the security clause surely includes protections against the national government it also included protection from foreign countries, pirates, natives and all other threats. Remember that we had a very small standing army at the time and the colonies/states provided militia men to augment that small force. And those men provided their own arms! And those bums the British still lurked on our Northern Border while the Spanish and French continued to nose around. Personally, I prefer to rest our 2nd Amendment rights on more than protecting us from our own government. The 2nd needs to be broadly defined because arguing it's intended solely to overthrow our own abusive government probably wouldn't cut it with our courts or the electorate. We already have the ability to overthrow our government by voting we don't need the 2nd to toss the bums out.

Joggee also referenced Jefferson and I'm in agreement with Jefferson (and Jogee on this point) - we shouldn't trade our liberties for any reason. I'm not advocating bartering away our liberties or our right to own guns. Jogee also makes some statements about paroles, prison terms and such. My personal belief is we tend to coddle criminals and those suggestions might make a good start, but I think a prison term is a prison term. What's up with this parole stuff?

Finally, Jogee writes that it's impossible to stop a madman if he wants to kill us referencing the 9 11 attacks and talks about spilling civilian blood as sometimes the cost of freedom. First, I would not lump a state sponsored terror act such as 9 11 with what happened in Newtown - different madnesses, different solutions. Second, I would agree it's pretty difficult to stop 100% of all these massacres but it doesn't need be all or none. Third, well someone else can tell the parents of those kids their child's blood was spilled as part of the price of freedom.

Essentially I think the mood of the country is very different right now and the bluff, bluster and yelling that in the past convinced our elected representatives to support our gun rights is not going to be enough this time. Now is not the time to marginalize ourselves by attempting to minimize Newtown with jaded comparisons of shooting statistics of Chicago school age children for 2012 with the Newtown massacre.

 

[Ouachita]

I think the new poster brings up some valid points that we should all digest and consider over a period of time. I would also recommend that everybody tread lightly, or not at all. Preferably, not at all.

I agree. However, lets keep in mind the intent of the second amendment. It was not put in place to insure that we would be able to hunt or shoot skeet, it was put there to give us the ability to overthrow an abusive government - one which would seek to take away our rights as guaranteed in the constitution.

Have we not learned anything from history? In the 20th century alone, gun control has led to the disarmament and murder of millions. This is what Adams, Jefferson and others sought to prevent. Tyranny. Jefferson said it best when he said, "any society who would trade their liberty for security deserves neither".

But I agree we need to do something with the crime rate in this country. The answer is quite simple in my view. First, we do away with concurrent prison terms, then we make prisoners serve their full terms rather than a third and when and if the parole board sees fit to review their case then the parole board should be held personally liable in civil court for any and all damages that the early release may have caused.

As for preventing the acts of a madman. I think it impossible. Afterall, when the strongest military in the world cannot protect its own headquarters from a plane then how on earth is the same government going to protect little old you from a madman? Its not going to happen. I think tragedy has reminded us that freedom comes with a price. Its not always paid with the blood of a soldier in some far away land but it is sometimes paid right here in our own backyard. Have we as a people become so soft that we are willing to sacrifice over 200 hundred years of freedom bought and paid for with our ancestors' blood, sweat and tears because a lone madman killed a some innocents - I think not.

I see now my post was misinterpreted, and not by one or two folks, but many. I was only suggesting this first time poster is a tax payer funded double agent/sponge. Beware of what you post; it will be cataloged.
I'm really going out on a limb here, but we are all aware PETA type folks infiltrating the discussion when it fits their agenda. They even play along. Is it possible that gun control advocates can do the same?
Call me stupid, but I smell a rat.
Jo, I agree with your post in full. I don't understand why you quoted me for your reply. I thought you knew me better than that.
I was hoping that everybody would read between the lines and ****. Didn't want it to get this far.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Flat Bottom (Ouachita )
I smelled a plant or anti from jump street.
When you go to trying to say one dead kid is worse than the other.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Don't let it worry you hillbilly. Things get to bad in washitas head over to the bostons. We will find a little more country.

 

[Jogeephus]

Jo, I agree with your post in full. I don't understand why you quoted me for your reply. I thought you knew me better than that.I was hoping that everybody would read between the lines and ****. Didn't want it to get this far.

I wasn't quoting you to be negative but to confirm that we need to look at things closer. Hopefully we will learn that gun free zones do not work just as drug free zones do not work. Maybe we can look closer at the flawed judicial system and demand changes to prevent the multitude of repeat offenders from harming innocents. This happens everyday and like many have mentioned its not even press worthy anymore. The system is broken and we need to demand that it be fixed.

Dega Moo, you are quick to make an arugument but I"ve yet to see where you offer any suggestions on how to prevent this from happening again so I'd like to hear your solution.