injectiong oxytet into stomach

[johndeerefarmer]

Anyone ever heard of injecting LA-200 or other antibiotics directly into the stomach of a cow? (in to the triangular spot where you puncture them for bloat). I was told that two vets in my area do it that way.

 

[milkmaid]

Why?

 

[Texas PaPaw]

Wondering if they were trying to inject into the peritoneal cavity (IP) instead of the stomach.

Probably 50 years ago remember my dad giving some antibiotics IP similar to what you described. It think it was sulfa for respiratory infection. Used an IV set with a long needle. Haven't seen it done since.

Milkmaid-anything being taught about IP treatments these days?

 

[TexasBred]

We use to put it into the rumen for treatment of bloat. An old timey treatment. Don't really know if it ever helped or not but the old man that owned the place swore by it.

 

[milkmaid]

I've given fluids IP, think you'd have to have a really long needle to go into the rumen of a mature cow. For the OP, is this as treatment for bloat or something else? generally you try not to kill off the "good bugs" in a cow's gut, which oxytet into the rumen would do.

 

[TexasBred]

I've given fluids IP, think you'd have to have a really long needle to go into the rumen of a mature cow. For the OP, is this as treatment for bloat or something else? generally you try not to kill off the "good bugs" in a cow's gut, which oxytet into the rumen would do.

Oxytet has been used in feeds as a preventive and treatment for bloat for years. But don't know if the direct injection of it into the rumen would give any immediate relief.

 

[milkmaid]

Immediately, no. As I recall, oxytet affects bacteria as they are replicating - regardless, an antibiotic isn't like a disinfectant (ie bleach) that you put in the area and bacteria die the instant it hits them. Some antibiotics work quicker than others, ie Nuflor and Baytril start having an effect within 60 minutes. I believe oxytet is at least double that - but either way, in a situation with bloat you don't generally have that much time.

It would depend on the type of bloat you're talking about, too - as to whether, 1) you have time, and 2) bacteria are directly responsible for it.

 

[johndeerefarmer]

It was injected in the stomach for treatment of foot rot. Supposedly it gets into the blood stream quicker than subq or IM injection. He also stated that he knew of two vets (one now deceased) that did it that way. And not long ago he had a bull treated for a limp and he watched as the vet injected into the stomach. I had never heard of that so thought that i would ask here.

Thanks

 

[TexasBred]

It was injected in the stomach for treatment of foot rot. Supposedly it gets into the blood stream quicker than subq or IM injection. He also stated that he knew of two vets (one now deceased) that did it that way. And not long ago he had a bull treated for a limp and he watched as the vet injected into the stomach. I had never heard of that so thought that i would ask here.

Thanks

Doesn't seem that it would be any different than giving a cow/calf a bolus. All antibiotics destroy bacteria to some degree.

 

[milkmaid]

If you need it in the bloodstream quicker than SC or IM... just IV it. Putting it into the rumen leaves it at the mercy of the digestive system, which may break it down, incompletely absorb it, or a million other possibilities. Just IV the stuff and put it all immediately where it's needed.

 

[TexasBred]

If you need it in the bloodstream quicker than SC or IM... just IV it. Putting it into the rumen leaves it at the mercy of the digestive system, which may break it down, incompletely absorb it, or a million other possibilities. Just IV the stuff and put it all immediately where it's needed.

For Bloat???????????????

 

[milkmaid]

No. Referring back to johndeerefarmer's post; he said it was given for treatment of footrot. I say in that case, if you need it in high concentrations in the bloodstream then just IV it.

 

[TexasBred]

No. Referring back to johndeerefarmer's post; he said it was given for treatment of footrot. I say in that case, if you need it in high concentrations in the bloodstream then just IV it.

For footrot I'd consider it a waste. JMO ;-)

 

[Lucky_P]

There's no reason for anyone to use it in that manner - and I'd want some confirmation from the vets that they're actually doing it that way. What we 'hear' isn't always what's actually happening.

LA-200/Tetradure/Agri-mycin, etc. have label applications for one or more of the following - IM, SQ, or IV. The manufacturer has demonstrated to FDA that when given at the label dosage by those approved routes, that blood/tissue concentrations of the antimicrobial agent will reach a specific level, and that tissue/milk residues will be below acceptable levels within an established timeframe. Using those drugs - or any others - in a manner not approved may result in failure of the intended treatment, unacceptable meat/milk residues, damage to tissues, etc.

I sure wouldn't waste LA-200 by injecting it directly into the rumen. Who knows how much, if any, of the drug would actually make it into the bloodstream and get to any affected/infected tissue if you injected it into the rumen? No one; because it was never intended to be administered that way - but I can almost guarantee you, it wouldn't get into the bloodstream more quickly or in higher concentrations than when given IM/SQ. If oxytet was the drug of choice, I'd give it IM or SQ - as directed on the package label. I have, on rare occasions, given it IV, but if you can't wait the short amount of time for adequate blood levels to be reached from IM/SQ injections, you're probably not going to 'save' that animal with an IV injection of oxytet, anyway. Going IV with it, you've gotta go SLOW; I never killed one, but I did knock a couple of cows off their feet with it - but they recovered.

 

[TexasBred]

Lucky...as a follow up, have you ever heard of it being injected into the rumen as a treatment for bloat? Or for that matter given as a drench for bloat. I do understand "extra label" but also have found it's pretty darn easy to get an extra label prescription from your local vet as well. Just curious on the bloat part.

 

[dun]

Lucky...as a follow up, have you ever heard of it being injected into the rumen as a treatment for bloat? Or for that matter given as a drench for bloat. I do understand "extra label" but also have found it's pretty darn easy to get an extra label prescription from your local vet as well. Just curious on the bloat part.

Not oxytet, but our vet likes to squirt nuflor in a calves mouth when it first starts scouring. Supposedly it makes the stomach incompatible for the growth of whatever it is that can cause scours.

 

[TexasBred]

Lucky...as a follow up, have you ever heard of it being injected into the rumen as a treatment for bloat? Or for that matter given as a drench for bloat. I do understand "extra label" but also have found it's pretty darn easy to get an extra label prescription from your local vet as well. Just curious on the bloat part.

Not oxytet, but our vet likes to squirt nuflor in a calves mouth when it first starts scouring. Supposedly it makes the stomach incompatible for the growth of whatever it is that can cause scours.

Vet use to prescribe Gentamycin for us to do the same.

 

[Lucky_P]

Never heard or read of OTC being given as a treatment for bloat, and knowing its mode of action, I don't really see how it would have any helpful effect. Don't see how it could hurt anything, but don't see that it would help. Wasted $$$ and effort, imo.
Feeding tetracyclines &/or tylosin has long been shown to reduce the incidence & severity of liver abscesses due to rumen acidosis in feedlot cattle on 'hot' high-carbohydrate rations, but I doubt that it has any activity in preventing bloat.

Nuflor is absorbed OK orally, but takes longer to reach effective blood levels, and less of the total dose(65%-88%) is bioavailable. Most organisms that cause scours in calves are not in the stomach, and most of an oral dose will have been absorbed into the bloodstream before it reaches the mid-small intestine. Personally, I don't see much benefit in giving it orally as opposed to injecting it.

I'm all for 'extra-label' drug usage when it's appropriate, just so long as it's not ILLEGAL extra-label drug usage. As producers of animal products - meat & milk - we need to be very diligent in using the drugs we have correctly; violative meat/milk residues really get big headlines, and the 99.9% of us who are doing things the right way get painted with the same broad brush as the 0.1% of bad actors or dumbasses. Public perception, driven by an uninformed or hostile press can have a detrimental effect on demand and prices for our product - and the other commodities are ready and willing to capitalize on any bad news about beef or dairy. Plus, if antibiotics are misused/abused enough, some governmental agency will eventually make a move to make them unavailable to us, regardless of whether the 'science' actually warrants it or not.
Just remember the DDT ban in 1972: public uproar over Rachel Carson's novel, Silent Spring, which was NOT science based, resulted in Wm. Ruckelshaus, the first director of the EPA, instituting a ban, even though a scientific panel EPA had commissioned to study DDT found no evidence that it posed any danger(except to the insects it was used against).

 

[TexasBred]

Doc I remember the DDT ban...also have read that studies showthat life expency dropped by several years in many 3rd world countries where the use was discontinued.

 

[Lucky_P]

New documentary about the initial power-grab by the environmental left that lead to the ban on DDT - and the mounting toll on human life around the globe as a result of that misguided action - 3 Billion and Counting...
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/27559