In KY, march is hard on cattle and old folks

[kickinbull]

I have heard that and have seen it also in our cattle. I am trying think of someway to prevent this from happening.(at least with the cattle ).We have dairy family milk cows. They are fed small amount of 16% grain while milking and we unroll fescue hay.They are totally outside except to be milked. Plus they also are getting some stockpile grass that's left. Talking with a friend, he feeds corn silage w/hay and he is experiencing some loss of bc. I know this have been a long winter for here, but this is something that occurs for most years. Any ideas? Tnks.

 

[inyati13]

Kickinbull, hey that sounds like a Crow or Cheyenne Indian Name. You indicate SC KY so I am directly north of you up here in Maysville. My cattle have not lost condition and it would not hurt a few of mine if they dropped a little condition. I do notice this: One of the cows that has a big fall calf on her is dropping some. Also a heifer that is low on the pecking order and gets chased away from feed is dropping a little. I still think they seem more stressed to me when it gets real hot.

 

[dun]

Any dairy cow that doesn;t loose a little condition while she's milking is cheating you. Not unusual for tem to loose a little condition during the winter and pick it back up during the dry period.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I was up at the farm this weekend for the first time since Christmas and I was really surprised how good the cattle looked after the brutal winter they've endured. Our place is right off I-71 about 45 miles south of Cincinnati on the Ohio River so it gets very cold.

Last winter we supplemented with protein tubs but since our local Southern States closed this past summer tubs were not a convenient option. The cattle have gotten zero feed, plenty of hay and free choice mineral, and they look terrific. IMHO.

 

[Stocker Steve]

In locations that have hard winters, the beef cows are expected to be fat by time there is too much snow cover for grazing. The old saying is that they should each store a ton (of hay equivalent) on their back.

 

[Lucky_P]

I see toothless old grannies, heavily pregnant or nursing a big calf, 'running out of gas' with green grass right around the corner every year - but this year, they've been rolling in much earlier than usual, and it's not all ol' Methuselas.
Been seeing - for the past month - good young cows, and 4-10 month old calves coming through the lab, in poor body condition, with all fat stores depleted - and a rumen full of what usually looks like decent hay. Most of the 'starve-outs' have been on hay only, with no grain or protein supplement; many without mineral supplementation,too - and liver Cu/Se levels have been incredibly low on several I've tested.

My fall-calving cows really dropped body condition this year - and we were feeding nearly twice the hay ration that we'd fed in recent years. Had to bump up the hay and DDG, especially for the fall-calvers. Think they'll make it now, but some were looking pretty doggone rough.

I didn't test my hay last year, and haven't talked with anyone who's had theirs tested, but I'm having some serious concerns about overall hay quality over a broad area of the region. Last year's cool, wet spring and summer may have resulted in a lot of hay being made - but I'm beginning to believe that that 'washy' grass may have really been lacking in nutritional content - including magnesium, as I've been seeing grass tetany cases in early lactation cows on hay and no signficant grazing, for a month.

Compound that potential lack of nutritional quality with what has been the longest, coldest winter we've had here in nearly 20 years, and it sets the stage for a really bad deal. Critical temperature for dry (meaning not soaking wet) cows is 18F. For every degree below 18, they have to expend 1% more energy just to maintain body heat; for some of these cattle - especially if they were in less-than-optimal body condition going into winter, or nursing a 1-4 month old calf... there may not have been enough feed value in the hay that they were receiving to get them through...
Too many folks don't realize that a cow can starve to death with a belly full of what may LOOK like good hay, but unless you test, you don't really know what is or is not in there.

Mud season is here, and with it usually comes a spate of calf scours cases...

 

[highgrit]

My hay is down 3 to 4 percent on protein and TDN is not that bad.

 

[TexasBred]

Too many folks don't realize that a cow can starve to death with a belly full of what may LOOK like good hay, but unless you test, you don't really know what is or is not in there.

Mud season is here, and with it usually comes a spate of calf scours cases...

Amazing isn't it how just about anything looks good in a bale. :nod:

 

[inyati13]

I see toothless old grannies, heavily pregnant or nursing a big calf, 'running out of gas' with green grass right around the corner every year - but this year, they've been rolling in much earlier than usual, and it's not all ol' Methuselas.
Been seeing - for the past month - good young cows, and 4-10 month old calves coming through the lab, in poor body condition, with all fat stores depleted - and a rumen full of what usually looks like decent hay. Most of the 'starve-outs' have been on hay only, with no grain or protein supplement; many without mineral supplementation,too - and liver Cu/Se levels have been incredibly low on several I've tested.

My fall-calving cows really dropped body condition this year - and we were feeding nearly twice the hay ration that we'd fed in recent years. Had to bump up the hay and DDG, especially for the fall-calvers. Think they'll make it now, but some were looking pretty doggone rough.

I didn't test my hay last year, and haven't talked with anyone who's had theirs tested, but I'm having some serious concerns about overall hay quality over a broad area of the region. Last year's cool, wet spring and summer may have resulted in a lot of hay being made - but I'm beginning to believe that that 'washy' grass may have really been lacking in nutritional content - including magnesium, as I've been seeing grass tetany cases in early lactation cows on hay and no signficant grazing, for a month.

Compound that potential lack of nutritional quality with what has been the longest, coldest winter we've had here in nearly 20 years, and it sets the stage for a really bad deal. Critical temperature for dry (meaning not soaking wet) cows is 18F. For every degree below 18, they have to expend 1% more energy just to maintain body heat; for some of these cattle - especially if they were in less-than-optimal body condition going into winter, or nursing a 1-4 month old calf... there may not have been enough feed value in the hay that they were receiving to get them through...
Too many folks don't realize that a cow can starve to death with a belly full of what may LOOK like good hay, but unless you test, you don't really know what is or is not in there.

Mud season is here, and with it usually comes a spate of calf scours cases...

Very informative. Thanks. I have protein tubs out with my hay. They have free choice loose mineral and water within 50 feet. The water is public water supplied by a Ritchie heated double SS baisn Model. I do put out some mixed feed that is 11 % protein but not enough to really be a significant factor. The cows look good. In testimony, I was advised through my contact with Fire Sweep Ranch (Kris) to separate the heifers that are due in the next 40 days so they do not have full-time access to the hay ring. So in my case, I have been more concerned about over-condition. Of course, my cows went into winter "fat" due to a low stocking rate on excellent pasture. I do have one cow that has a calf that was born September 1 and that calf is very big. Much bigger than the others that were born about the same time. I think the calf has pulled her down; she produces a lot of milk. But for the most part, this winter has not been a factor. I have no idea how to rate the quality of my hay other than to say it is fescue, orchard grass, and red clover.
Maybe it is the LOVE Factor

 

[Lucky_P]

grit,
3-4% CP? That's pretty abysmal.
What's the TDN - < 30?

That sounds like the typical starvation ration around here. It'll fill 'em up, but they can't get much out of it. Have seen 'em drop bc and die with a belly full of that stuff, if they're not being supplemented with some grain & a protein source.
Calves born to protein-deficient dams have a hard time generating body heat, getting up & nursing, and getting adequate intake - and absorption - of colostral antibodies.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Lucky I think you miss read Highgrit's post.

 

[Lucky_P]

Thanks, RBB - you're right, I did misread it - highgrit did say 'down 3-4%' - not down to 3-4%.

In some past years, I've seen cows starve out with a belly full of 'hay' - really overmature CRP residue - that tested out at 3% CP and <30 TDN. Folks say, "Better than a snowball" - but it's not much better!
"But, I'm feeding them all they can eat!"
There's just not enough nutrition in that material to support a late term fetus or lactation, especially in cold, wet weather and muddy conditions, without some supplemental energy and protein.

 

[jedstivers]

Thanks, RBB - you're right, I did misread it - highgrit did say 'down 3-4%' - not down to 3-4%.

In some past years, I've seen cows starve out with a belly full of 'hay' - really overmature CRP residue - that tested out at 3% CP and <30 TDN. Folks say, "Better than a snowball" - but it's not much better!
"But, I'm feeding them all they can eat!"
There's just not enough nutrition in that material to support a late term fetus or lactation, especially in cold, wet weather and muddy conditions, without some supplemental energy and protein.

When they tell you that ask them if they could live of full stomach's of cardboard? The stupidity and the holding onto old ways just because someone else did it that way 50 years ago in the cattle business astounds me.
And to make it worse the ones that that do it the most are the know-it-all's. They won't consider something might be better.

 

[dryfork2]

When I was young kid in late 60's was older trader my dad worked with(his mentor). Straight old school growed up before trucks big enough to haul cattle. They drove cattle to town to Pearl packing in Madison (1900+ give or take). He always claimed if u could only grain your beef cows one month a year to do it in March. Always has stuck in my mind, guess he had seen times when people didn't have much grain.

 

[Bigfoot]

I'm hoping March comes in like a lion, and goes out like a lion. It's looking like the first part of that might come true anyway.

 

[Farmerjon]

Big foot, why do you want March to go out like a Lion? Isn't it, "in like a lion, out like a lamb?"

 

[Nesikep]

I think winter is blowing some of it's last serious breath around here... it's been -10C for the last week and it seems to be breaking now, cloudcover and -3 or so today... Just in time to make muck for calving time for me.. maybe it'll break for the rest of you guys too.

I've been wanting to get a hay analysis on our hay for years... never gotten around to it. The previous owner did it about 30 years ago and the hay had the highest protein lever Ag Canada had ever seen... I'm sure with new Alfalfa varieties that's pretty out of date though.

Right now I'm feeding 7x80 lb bales of first cut alfalfa/OG to 17 head of mature cows (32 lb/day each), 3 bales of the same hay to 4 2nd calvers with 3 first timers (34 lb/day each), and about 100lbs/day to my 5 yearlings (20 lb/day each)

 

[Bigfoot]

Big foot, why do you want March to go out like a Lion? Isn't it, "in like a lion, out like a lamb?"

I must have developed dyslexia in my old age.

 

[herofan]

I didn't test my hay last year, and haven't talked with anyone who's had theirs tested, but I'm having some serious concerns about overall hay quality over a broad area of the region. Last year's cool, wet spring and summer may have resulted in a lot of hay being made - but I'm beginning to believe that that 'washy' grass may have really been lacking in nutritional content - including magnesium,

That could be. We made a lot more hay last year than the previous, which we were happy about, but the cows just aren't consuming it as well. Perhaps that spring moisture cut down on taste as well.