Implants

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Chapin81

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Hi everyone,

How's everyone dealing with the cold? We had our first "snowstorm" of the year here in nyc about an inch if that! 😂 I was wondering if anyone uses implants on new born calves(one month old) ? What experiences have you had? what brands have better response? I'm mostly wondering if your weaning weights are heavier. Intentions are to only use them on the bull calf's.

Thanks and stay warm.
 
Hi everyone,

How's everyone dealing with the cold? We had our first "snowstorm" of the year here in nyc about an inch if that! 😂 I was wondering if anyone uses implants on new born calves(one month old) ? What experiences have you had? what brands have better response? I'm mostly wondering if your weaning weights are heavier. Intentions are to only use them on the bull calf's.

Thanks and stay warm.

I don't like artificial food, fake breasts, or the idea of artificial intelligence writing essays for school kids.

I've been around implants since the early eighties, and tried them once. What I saw was nothing that impressed me. Anything I could get with implants could be done with better genetics and management, and making better choices. And I made good choices and did fine without contaminating my product with (admittedly minor levels of) chemistry.

I don't like implants. I'd never do it to something I would put in my own freezer... so why would I do it to something going to one of my neighbors?
 
Years ago when we ran feeder steers, implanting was part of the initial working protocol.
Then when we got into registered cattle (cows and calves) I stopped using them because we were selling breeding animals. Even when going to commercial cattle I've continued not to use them.
The claim is that you get some extra pounds per calf, but just a personal preference I'd rather not do it especially for heifers. I'm quite confident that whoever buys our calves probably used implants.
I've noticed recently that they are announcing and or asking if calves have been implanted. That may be more for heifers I'm not sure.
I prefer that any of our own beef calves not be implanted.
That being said, it's been an accepted practice for decades and up to each individual as to whether or not it's something they want to utilize in their cattle.
 
We don't use them any more. Only because we don't work our calves before turnout. I have zero issue with using them or eating the beef from implanted animals. 'They' claim the use of implants is it best/easiest return on investment a producer can make and that is probably the case. They are best combined with better genetics and management.
The only benefit to not using them that I can see is it keeps your calves EU compliant and that market seems to be turning into something substantial.
 
I don't like artificial food, fake breasts, or the idea of artificial intelligence writing essays for school kids.

I've been around implants since the early eighties, and tried them once. What I saw was nothing that impressed me. Anything I could get with implants could be done with better genetics and management, and making better choices. And I made good choices and did fine without contaminating my product with (admittedly minor levels of) chemistry.

I don't like implants. I'd never do it to something I would put in my own freezer... so why would I do it to something going to one of my neighbors?

I don't like artificial food, fake breasts, or the idea of artificial intelligence writing essays for school kids.

I've been around implants since the early eighties, and tried them once. What I saw was nothing that impressed me. Anything I could get with implants could be done with better genetics and management, and making better choices. And I made good choices and did fine without contaminating my product with (admittedly minor levels of) chemistry.

I don't like implants. I'd never do it to something I would put in my own freezer... so why would I do it to something going to one of my neighbors?
Thank you appreciate your input. My farms in Guatemala. There is no protocol or restrictions on what feed or what growth hormones are used in cattle. All buyers for the most part finish cattle on chicken litter. I have been working in getting better genetics with my cows, my birthweights have been up which Is a great compared to what it was before. un fortunately my weaning weights aren't that great, which was the reason for my question.
 
Hi everyone,

How's everyone dealing with the cold? We had our first "snowstorm" of the year here in nyc about an inch if that! 😂 I was wondering if anyone uses implants on new born calves(one month old) ? What experiences have you had? what brands have better response? I'm mostly wondering if your weaning weights are heavier. Intentions are to only use them on the bull calf's.

Thanks and stay warm.
Do not implant bull calves. It's off label and will make them very hard to castrate.
 
I use them at first work and again at weaning. First work for me is one to 2 1/2 months. Bulls are banded at the same time. Its kind of a leap of faith because I have never done a real test but the A & M folks and others have and I trust their results.

I implant bulls and heifers. The heifers that I want to retain don't get the implant at weaning. I have never had a issue where I thought the implant effected their fertility.

Its a simple procedure that takes less than a minute and costs less than $2. It it adds 5 lbs, you have made 5 times your money.

Some folks say they don't want it in their meat. I have no problem with that but everything that comes from a feed lot will have been implanted and probably more than once. Those folks know how to raise beef and they all implant. That alone should be a good indication that its profitable to do so.
 
Thank you appreciate your input. My farms in Guatemala. There is no protocol or restrictions on what feed or what growth hormones are used in cattle. All buyers for the most part finish cattle on chicken litter. I have been working in getting better genetics with my cows, my birthweights have been up which Is a great compared to what it was before. un fortunately my weaning weights aren't that great, which was the reason for my question.
Chicken litter is full of wasted chicken feed, which may be full of the same hormones in implants. I've also fed chicken litter, but found it better as a fertilizer to be spread to grow grass.

I don't really care about protocol or restrictions as much as expense/benefit, and whether artificial is an improvement over natural.

Glad to hear your birth weights are improving. I remember you had some issues with a few cows suddenly getting very thin and some died? What happened with that?

I don't know anything about weight gains in Guatemala, but I'm plenty curious. The heat and vegetation has to be far different, and the bugs. I hope you get better results but suspect you'd do better infusing some European genetics into your animals as a terminal cross than by using implants.
 
It all depends on what market you are selling into. We have a lot of markets like the EU and a large local supermarket chain and many others that don't want implants at any stage in their life. Any implants have to be declared on our Vendor Declaration when sold so it can limit our market if they are implanted.
The fact that you have no restrictions there is one of the reasons that product from that area is regarded as lower quality internationally. Importers are very big on quality control and traceability these days.

Ken
 
Chicken litter is full of wasted chicken feed, which may be full of the same hormones in implants. I've also fed chicken litter, but found it better as a fertilizer to be spread to grow grass.

I don't really care about protocol or restrictions as much as expense/benefit, and whether artificial is an improvement over natural.

Glad to hear your birth weights are improving. I remember you had some issues with a few cows suddenly getting very thin and some died? What happened with that?

I don't know anything about weight gains in Guatemala, but I'm plenty curious. The heat and vegetation has to be far different, and the bugs. I hope you get better results but suspect you'd do better infusing some European genetics into your animals as a terminal cross than by using implants.
 
Chicken litter is full of wasted chicken feed, which may be full of the same hormones in implants. I've also fed chicken litter, but found it better as a fertilizer to be spread to grow grass.

I don't really care about protocol or restrictions as much as expense/benefit, and whether artificial is an improvement over natural.

Glad to hear your birth weights are improving. I remember you had some issues with a few cows suddenly getting very thin and some died? What happened with that?

I don't know anything about weight gains in Guatemala, but I'm plenty curious. The heat and vegetation has to be far different, and the bugs. I hope you get better results but suspect you'd do better infusing some European genetics into your animals as a terminal cross than by using implants.
We never found out the cause of death on these cows, however I took a shot in the dark and dewormed them with ivomec plus and I also used a product called valvazen from zoetis. Started using minerals daily as well and came up with my own schedule on vaccines for clostridium, derriengue and anthrax. Vigantol AD3E from Elanco and Multimin 90.

In regards to weight gains. Grass fed your anywhere between 1/2lb to maybe 1 1/2 lbs per day maybe a smidge more. Feedlot I've heard crazy numbers(to me it's crazy) but I don't know it's true, I've heard 3-4 1/2 lbs per day, most of the beef is select grade. Unless you buy imported beef from USA, Nicaragua or Argentina then you'll have access to prime. People down there for the most part eat their steaks very well done/charred and if you serve it rare or med they will tell you it's not cooked. I would say only a small amount of the population knows what great steak is. I do know that there are a few wagyu beef producers down there but I think they are still trying to aclimate the herd to the tropics or are crossing them with another breed.

I have thought of using Simmental or senepol to cross but I'm afraid to do so because I think our herd is too commercial I was always under the assumption you get a better cross when your using two animals that are pure blood or close to it.
 
I use them at first work and again at weaning. First work for me is one to 2 1/2 months. Bulls are banded at the same time. Its kind of a leap of faith because I have never done a real test but the A & M folks and others have and I trust their results.

I implant bulls and heifers. The heifers that I want to retain don't get the implant at weaning. I have never had a issue where I thought the implant effected their fertility.

Its a simple procedure that takes less than a minute and costs less than $2. It it adds 5 lbs, you have made 5 times your money.

Some folks say they don't want it in their meat. I have no problem with that but everything that comes from a feed lot will have been implanted and probably more than once. Those folks know how to raise beef and they all implant. That alone should be a good indication that it's profitable to do so.
Any particular brand you use?? Do you have to castrate them?? Our market is different because if they are being hauled to Mexico they want bulls not steers. 🤷‍♂️
 
We don't use them any more. Only because we don't work our calves before turnout. I have zero issue with using them or eating the beef from implanted animals. 'They' claim the use of implants is it best/easiest return on investment a producer can make and that is probably the case. They are best combined with better genetics and management.
The only benefit to not using them that I can see is it keeps your calves EU compliant and that market seems to be turning into something substantial.
No vaccines either?
 
We never found out the cause of death on these cows, however I took a shot in the dark and dewormed them with ivomec plus and I also used a product called valvazen from zoetis. Started using minerals daily as well and came up with my own schedule on vaccines for clostridium, derriengue and anthrax. Vigantol AD3E from Elanco and Multimin 90.

That had to be pretty scary, losing cows and not knowing what was going on. I've never lost a cow to worm load, but your type cattle may be more susceptible and/or the type of worms in Guatemala more deadly. Hope your issues with that are done and over with.

I have thought of using Simmental or senepol to cross but I'm afraid to do so because I think our herd is too commercial I was always under the assumption you get a better cross when your using two animals that are pure blood or close to it.

I think you may be correct about a lot of cross breeding and crossed cows that they can dilute the best traits of any breeds they contain. And I'd worry about any kind of fullblood European bull down there. But I've seen some animals that might acclimate and are offshoots of European cattle mixed with Brahman. Have you thought about Beefmaster or Santa Gertrudis? I've seen some massive Gerts. I'd bet they could put the pounds on your calves. And then there is always artificial insemination. Are the people caring for your herd competent to do that? Then you could try using straight European genetics. Simmental would be a good choice, I would think.
 
We never found out the cause of death on these cows, however I took a shot in the dark and dewormed them with ivomec plus and I also used a product called valvazen from zoetis. Started using minerals daily as well and came up with my own schedule on vaccines for clostridium, derriengue and anthrax. Vigantol AD3E from Elanco and Multimin 90.

In regards to weight gains. Grass fed your anywhere between 1/2lb to maybe 1 1/2 lbs per day maybe a smidge more. Feedlot I've heard crazy numbers(to me it's crazy) but I don't know it's true, I've heard 3-4 1/2 lbs per day, most of the beef is select grade. Unless you buy imported beef from USA, Nicaragua or Argentina then you'll have access to prime. People down there for the most part eat their steaks very well done/charred and if you serve it rare or med they will tell you it's not cooked. I would say only a small amount of the population knows what great steak is. I do know that there are a few wagyu beef producers down there but I think they are still trying to aclimate the herd to the tropics or are crossing them with another breed.

I have thought of using Simmental or senepol to cross but I'm afraid to do so because I think our herd is too commercial I was always under the assumption you get a better cross when your using two animals that are pure blood or close to it.
My contact in Mexico that I bought Corriente cattle from for years, bought a LOT of Chianina, Chianinia X Brahma, and Chiania x Charbray bulls from me. He sold them in Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, and Columbia & Venezuela. Maybe other contries too, but these are the ones I remember him telling me about. He said the Chiania are just as heat insect, and parasite tolerant as Brahma, and the bulls can really cover a lot of ground seeking out cows. and have very strong libidos. And they throw a lot bigger calves than with the straight Brahma, Indu-Brasil, etc, bulls. I dunno...I never tried.....but he said it is easier to get cattle into those other countries from Mexico than straight from the US. But, I figure you'd know the best way to do it.

And no, you wouldn't have to have purebred cows to cross with say, a Simmental. You just want to make sure the Simm bulls are registered. You might want to think about Charolais instead of Simm, though, to keep that white coat going, due to the heat. The last 3 or 4 years before he was killed last summer, he told me he'd as soon take a Chininia x Charbray bull if I could find them, as he would a Chi x Bra.

Maybe you could try a Charolais or Chiania bull and see if it improved your calves's sizes? Or both? You wouldn't have to worry about how the Chiania would aclimate, and I would guess a Charolais would fare better than a red or black Simm.

The last 25 years or so, cowboy poker has been gaining popularity for rodeo specialty acts, and PBR holds bull fighter competions for the bull fighters. Both of these use Mexican Fighting Bulls in these events. Not every MFB is good enough to make it into the arenas in Mexico, and not every ABBI bull raised bucks well enough to be used in rodeo and PBR events. Bucking bulls are mostly LH x Brah crosses, and a lot of the crosses are with Charolais. George (Jorge) did a lot of business with stock contractors, trading fighting bulls for any white bucking bull he could find. And he sent all of them further south.
 
Any particular brand you use?? Do you have to castrate them?? Our market is different because if they are being hauled to Mexico they want bulls not steers. 🤷‍♂️
The running joke with the vet I worked for was that you should at least wait until the calf is dried off before you implant them. Wet ears and hard to hold.
I prefer RalGro for young calves. Steers only ( or heifers you don't intend to breed)
Implanting bull calves will cause their
vas deferens to become brittle. When they are cut their testicals will break off and they will bleed profusely.
 
His cows are in Guatemala...
Yes, I am aware. And assume that any chicken litter fed there is from local chicken operations. I think the regulations there are similar to the US. As I type this, there are 18 members and 174 guests viewing this forum (as well as 419 robots). I just wanted to post the actual information on hormone use. Those 174 guests probably include young people and others that I hope don't get the wrong ideas about the safety of our meat supply or use of hormones.

"No hormones are allowed for poultry production. All veterinary drugs and vaccines have to be approved by the Avian Technical Commission, composed of MAGA, the College of Veterinarians, the Veterinary Faculty of the Universidad de San Carlos de Guatemala (state university), and ANAVI."
 
Yes, I am aware. And assume that any chicken litter fed there is from local chicken operations. I think the regulations there are similar to the US. As I type this, there are 18 members and 174 guests viewing this forum (as well as 419 robots). I just wanted to post the actual information on hormone use. Those 174 guests probably include young people and others that I hope don't get the wrong ideas about the safety of our meat supply or use of hormones.

"No hormones are allowed for poultry production. All veterinary drugs and vaccines have to be approved by the Avian Technical Commission, composed of MAGA, the College of Veterinarians, the Veterinary Faculty of the Universidad de San Carlos de Guatemala (state university), and ANAVI."
FOUR HUNDRED AND NINETEEN!!! ROBOTS???

Whoa...

Where do you see the numbers of members and guests? I've looked around and can't find that information. Just curious.
 

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