Idaman

[Idaman]

A continuation of the discription of our pelton installation. These are not the actual pictures of our wheel but an almost identical one with one major exception which I wll explain later.

This wheel is the heart of the system. Ours was an 18 inch wheel that through belts drove a 20 KW generator.

The yellow thing projecting into the housing is the nozzle that had an inside diameter of 15/16 inch. The water was at a pressure of nearly 200 psi when it entered the nozzle.

The major difference is that ours had a shaft right at the outlet of the nozzle that could either deflect the water off of the wheel for less power on on for full power. There was a Woodward governor that sensed the speed of the wheel and adjusted the defection of the water stream to keep a constant RPM and subsequently a steady current for power to the appliances in the houses. For electric motors you need sixty cycles per second or the motors would burn up. Lights and heating elements aren't as critical but fridges. and freezers sure are.

We had a large faced cycle meter in the kitchen of our house so we could see exactly where the power was and make adjustments if necessary.

With any kind of electrical generation for residences the 6PM to 8PM hours are the highest usage and if we made it through that time period we were good for another 24 hours.

Ours wasn't the only small hydro plant in the area but the only one that was high head and limited water amount. One other ranch that had a wheel that had been installed long ago enough to have used wooden pipe. This was definitely a low head machine as wooden pipe would never take the pressure that our steel pipe one could.

After we installed this system it opened up the possibility for some others in the area and we helped with their design.

After almost ten years of continuous use the incoming pipe started leaking a little so we shut it off and encased the 20 feet coming into the house in a large batch of cement. After uncovering the pipe we discovered that the leaks in the sreel pipe were the result of vibration and that only the welded joints were leaking. We left it off for a week after we poured the cement to let it cure because if we had turned on too soon the vibration might have pushed the cement away enough to continue the leaking.

The system was quite noisey right from the start and we thought it was the water hitting the wheel but after the cement was put in the machine was nearly silent. So what we were hearing was the vibrating inlet pipe.

 

[regenwether]

Did you get any help getting your hydro-electric system going? In this day and age I think more of this type of electric power should be used. What was the name of the company you used? do you know of a web site for small hydro systems. Thank you.

 

[Idaman]

Did you get any help getting your hydro-electric system going? In this day and age I think more of this type of electric power should be used. What was the name of the company you used? do you know of a web site for small hydro systems. Thank you.

No we didn't get any help on the design or installation. In fact Bob Maytag had a consulting firm analyze this site and their conclusion was that it was not a feasible sight. I measured the water flow with a home made weir that was made out of plywood and then used common surveying equipment to ascertain the fall. I had never used surveying equipment before but through trial and error we estimated the fall. After the system was in we saw from the PSI that our estimations of fall were very close.

Since we had to survey down a very steep hill with a lot of fall we used a 40' handline section to sight off of and then just counted the number of times we had to move down the hill. Twelve times meant 480 feet which worked out to be right on. That hill was so steep that we had to pull the welder up the hill with a cat to weld the steel pipe.

I don't remember the name of the very small company that made our wheel but they were located in Custer, Washington. I told them what I had and what I wanted and they made a machine like what I wanted. As I look back we didn't even have any scientific specs. for them only general ideas.

The intake for these systems is also a very critical part as you need to filter out the trash that floats down the creek or you could plug the nozzle. If we ever needed to work on the system we shut off the water and let the system drain because I sure didn't want to work with 200PSI water.

Someone had given me an old Mother Earth Journal and I got most of the calculations from there. The system in that article was much much smaller than what we wanted but the calculations for fall, water amounts, and rpm could be used.

I know a google search will turn up lots of info. on pelton wheels and other designs of water turbine so good luck and if we can ever be of any assistance let us know as we just love working with these things.

The neighbors teased us about wearing out our irrigation water before we let go of it. Higher up in the mountains there was a small hay meadow that we flood irrigated and then the pelton intake was right at the bottom of that meadow to catch all of the waste water. Next the water went down the hill and through the system and after the system it was put into a mainline pipe to gravity sprinkle the fields below the house. Water used three times in less that two miles.

 

[Idaman]

A horse named Tiny in the line cabin at Relay. Someone left the door open when they left to ride in the morning and when they returned in the evening they found they had a guest for dinner.

I have heard that if you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas. I guess if you live with horses sometime they may come to dinner.

 

[Idaman]

Above is a picture of the Empire headquarters taken from the fields below the house. I have drawn in the route of the penstock pipe.

Since people have asked about the design and installation of these things I will share some observations and ideas.

First of all this all relates to self sufficiency, preparedness, and survival.

We have lived for 33 years in these modes. Not necessarily because of preparing for disasters but merely out of necessity. Nearly all of the ranches we have owned and lived on were at the end of the road and very remote. In the case of Empire there was only diesel powered electricity. Back then the cost of generating power from diesel was about $25,000 per year but today that price would be closer to $70,000. Not many ranches can stand that kind of a bill just for electricity for the houses.

If you are interested in being prepared I will share my thoughts. You can't be prepared for everything so you need to prioritize your needs in the case of an emergency.

1. WATER! WATER! WATER!
You are going to need water within hours without electrical power for pumping that water. Here you have three possibilities. 1. Gravity pressure. 2. Windmill into a cistern. 3. Sun or wind generation to power a pump system. We have always been lucky enough to have the possibility for gravity pressured house water. You can develop a surface fed spring fairly easily and then if it is slightly higher than your house you are in business except for the need to purify the surface water. We are now using this system. First you need to filter out particles and we use a 5 micron filter available at Lowes etc. Next in series, needs to be a carbon filter for odors and some chemicals. Again at Lowes. And last but almost most important is a filter for bacteria. For this last one we use a ultra-violet light filter that will kill any bacteria you might encounter. These are available on the internet and we use the Steri-Light filter. It consists of a ultra-violet lamp inside a stainless steel tube. This three step system should purify any water anywhere except for commercial chemicals. The cost for these three filters should be about $300 for all three. Ours now uses power company power but when that goes out then our water would not be safe to drink even though with the gravity pressurization we would still have water available to the house. To get around this all too frequent occurrence we put in a deep cycle marine battery that through a common car battery inverter powers the light. We then hooked a common small battery charger between the power grid power source and the battery to keep the battery fully charged. When the power goes out the light is still powered by the battery and our water is still being treated. The battery will power the light for about 24 hours. Next we should add a sun powered battery charger to the system for full self sufficiency.

2. The second priority is refrigeration. We all think that because we live on farms or ranches we will have a food source. That is true but with meat you definitely need to refrigerate it during most of the year. A calf or steer will mostly spoil before you can eat all of it. Sheep, pigs, and chickens are smaller so they can be consumed maybe before spoiling. Another solution for cooling but not freezing is to take a old refrigerator and if you have a source of fairly cool water then fix it so the water flows down over the outside of the fridge.

I won't go into heating etc. because you may have quite some time to prepare after the power fails and there is a wealth of info out there on that already. The reason I am discussing the items above is the emergency situation you may find yourself in after the power fails. You are going to need water and that very quickly so that is the one thing you need to prepare for beforehand. Refrigeration has some time for preparation but not water.

 

[Idaman]

Hereford Bulls Inc. gain test about 1974.

The weigh in.

Sale day!

The ration for the test was ground grass hay,ans a 60% oats grain mix. If I remember correctly the test was nearly 200 days long and the daily gains weren't too impressive. The gain figures were only good for comparisons within the test as the primary goal was to put out sound and useful young bulls.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

I am amazed at the great posts over the last two months. Really good interesting stuff. I really appreciate it.

 

[Idaman]

I am amazed at the great posts over the last two months. Really good interesting stuff. I really appreciate it.

Thanks so much for the kind words. As I find pictures etc. I try to post them but I don't want to bore anybody.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

What ages were the bull test bulls?

Did they go on test at 9 months? 12 months?

Or older and come off as 2s?

 

[Angus Cowman]

I am amazed at the great posts over the last two months. Really good interesting stuff. I really appreciate it.

Thanks so much for the kind words. As I find pictures etc. I try to post them but I don't want to bore anybody.

Don't worry about boring anyone I can listen(read) your storiesw ll day
I for one am intrigued by what happened and how things happened in history
You really should write a book
I for one would buy it

 

[40-4171]

That looks like Elbert Fourtner on the gate. Brings to mind a story concerning Elbert and Dad. The rules of the bull test stated the owner can do no advertising. Hereford Bulls, Inc. would handle all advertising.
Elbert had the top gaining bull and sale day came and he put a big ad sign on the front of the pen his bull was in. Of course Dad not having a timid bone in his body and not caring one bit if his opinion agreed with yours would make danged sure the rules were followed regardless of who you were. Elbert had previously purchased 4-H steers from Dad a time or two for his kids. When Dad saw the sign, it was immediately ripped off the gate and Dad sought a very public conversation with Elbert telling him in no uncertain terms what the rules he had previously agreed to were. I don't think Elbert purchased any more 4-H steers from Dad!!

 

[Idaman]

What ages were the bull test bulls?

Did they go on test at 9 months? 12 months?

Or older and come off as 2s?

The bulls came in some time after fall weaning. I am not sure when but they were all nearly a year old when they arrived.

We took 5 bulls from each breeder, no more no less. We handled everything from there.

Health problems were minimal but some people who were Christian Scientists would not let us give any shots or doctor any of their cattle in any way. To our shock we never lost any of theirs. I remember a bull dieing one day for no apparent reason and he was the breeders very best bull. We of course had it autopsied and the results came back that the bull had had diptheria as a baby calf and that disease had eaten a hole in his esphogas and one day when he must have eaten too much at one time the feed went out of his throat, plugged his wind pipe and he suffocated immediately. We felt so bad about this incident that if I remember correctly we drove the 100 miles to the consigners ranch to tell him what had happened and lend our condolenses.

We fed them until some time in October and then had a sale on site. So they would have been coming twos or about 18 months. The emphasis was on range bulls although a few went as herd bulls in to registered herds.

We as a family have often laughed that my wife owned our best bull one year and she sold him for a very good price for the time. She had already planned for the spending of the bull check but at the last minute before she could spend it she had to have surgery and there went the bull check.

 

[Idaman]

I am amazed at the great posts over the last two months. Really good interesting stuff. I really appreciate it.

Thanks so much for the kind words. As I find pictures etc. I try to post them but I don't want to bore anybody.

Don't worry about boring anyone I can listen(read) your storiesw ll day
I for one am intrigued by what happened and how things happened in history
You really should write a book
I for one would buy it

Thanks.

 

[Idaman]

That looks like Elbert Fourtner on the gate. Brings to mind a story concerning Elbert and Dad. The rules of the bull test stated the owner can do no advertising. Hereford Bulls, Inc. would handle all advertising.
Elbert had the top gaining bull and sale day came and he put a big ad sign on the front of the pen his bull was in. Of course Dad not having a timid bone in his body and not caring one bit if his opinion agreed with yours would make danged sure the rules were followed regardless of who you were. Elbert had previously purchased 4-H steers from Dad a time or two for his kids. When Dad saw the sign, it was immediately ripped off the gate and Dad sought a very public conversation with Elbert telling him in no uncertain terms what the rules he had previously agreed to were. I don't think Elbert purchased any more 4-H steers from Dad!!

Your are correct about Elbert in the picture. Behind him Larry Wagner is in the scale house door as Larry did all of our weighing so that there would be no question as to the accuracy since he was the county extension agent at the time. The fellow seated on the cement wall is me. I wouldn't have recognized the third one until I saw the ear flap hat.

That hat is my love. My wife swears I wear the flapped hat in July if a cloud comes over. That is probably right as I froze my ears at a young age while hunting cougars and my ears have since then been very sensitive to the cold. Those hats were Eddie Bauer hats and one time when we living in Canada we flew to Denver for the stock show. My hat in use at the time was getting just a little dirty and worn out so we went to the Eddie Bauer store in downtown Denver to try to find me another hat. I had to drag my wife along complaining all the way. She had envisioned the day that my ole hat would die and I would be forced to a different style. I couldn't find the hat I wanted so I asked the manager about that model. He said that they were out of production. My heart sank and I swear that my wife was jumping up and down and squealing with joy at the prospect of finally being rid of that hat. During that exibition of glee the manager said that he still had some in storage in the basement. Talk about a crestfallen wife. We went to the basement and sure enough there they were. He had nine so I bought them all and my wife nearly fainted. I now had a life supply. The only problem was that the reason they were in storage was that the bill was sown on a little crooked. We didn't discover this defect until we were back home. This strange little look just mortified my wife even more. Even today if I want to rattle her chain I just put on my "EDDIE BAUER" hat.

I remember well the incident with Elbert and Franklin. I think everyone at the sale heard that conversation. Even before that Elbert had been our biggest complainer and problem child.

 

[Idaman]

Above is a picture of the Empire headquarters taken from the fields below the house. I have drawn in the route of the penstock pipe.

Since people have asked about the design and installation of these things I will share some observations and ideas.

First of all this all relates to self sufficiency, preparedness, and survival.

We have lived for 33 years in these modes. Not necessarily because of preparing for disasters but merely out of necessity. Nearly all of the ranches we have owned and lived on were at the end of the road and very remote. In the case of Empire there was only diesel powered electricity. Back then the cost of generating power from diesel was about $25,000 per year but today that price would be closer to $70,000. Not many ranches can stand that kind of a bill just for electricity for the houses.

If you are interested in being prepared I will share my thoughts. You can't be prepared for everything so you need to prioritize your needs in the case of an emergency.

1. WATER! WATER! WATER!
You are going to need water within hours without electrical power for pumping that water. Here you have three possibilities. 1. Gravity pressure. 2. Windmill into a cistern. 3. Sun or wind generation to power a pump system. We have always been lucky enough to have the possibility for gravity pressured house water. You can develop a surface fed spring fairly easily and then if is slightly higher than your house you are in business except for the need to purify the surface water. We are now using this system. First you need to filter out particles and we use a 5 micron filter available at Lowes etc. Next in series, needs to be a carbon filter for odors and some chemicals. Again at Lowes. And last but almost most important is a filter for bacteria. For this last one we use a ultra-violet light filter that will kill any bacteria you might encounter. These are available on the internet and we use the Steri-Light filter. It consists of a ultra-violet lamp inside a stainless steel tube. This three step system should purify any water anywhere except for commercial chemicals. The cost for these three filters should be about $300 for all three. Ours now uses power company power but when that goes out then our water would not be safe to drink even though with the gravity pressurization we would still have water available to the house. To get around this all too frequent occurrence we put in a deep cycle marine battery that through a common car battery inverter powers the light. We then hooked a common small battery charger between the power grid power source and the battery to keep the battery fully charged. When the power goes out the light is still powered by the battery and our water is still being treated. The battery will power the light for about 24 hours. Next we should add a sun powered battery charger to the system for full self sufficiency.

2. The second priority is refrigeration. We all think that because we live on farms or ranches we will have a food source. That is true but with meat you definitely need to refrigerate it during most of the year. A calf or steer will mostly spoil before you can eat all of it. Sheep, pigs, and chickens are smaller so they can be consumed maybe before spoiling. Another solution for cooling but not freezing is to take a old refrigerator and if you have a source of fairly cool water then fix it so the water flows down over the outside of the fridge.

I won't go into heating etc. because you may have quite some time to prepare after the power fails and there is a wealth of info out there on that already. The reason I am discussing the items above is the emergency situation you may find yourself in after the power fails. You are going to need water and that very quickly so that is the one thing you need to prepare for beforehand. Refrigeration has some time for preparation but not water.


A couple of things I left out of the preparedness post have to do with other things we are using in the electrical line.

We are trying a 12 volt pump in our house system to boost pressure and to see just how long these particular pumps will last with normal house use. This pump is a common off the shelf ATV sprayer pump with about a 5 gpm capacity. So far it has lasted nearly a year but the next test is to try this pump as a well pump to see if it can draw water from a well where the water level is 15 to 20 feet below the surface. If it has enough suction then we can rig up a sun powered battery charger and have a totally self sufficient water supply. You would need a switch so that you could turn the pump on and then off when you weren't using water to keep from running the battery clear down.

The other observation is about installing a back up power source. Most people purchase Honda or Yahmaha generators and they are great. You will find, as we did, that you can get by with just a couple of hours of electricity use per day. 7 to 8 in the morning and 6 to 7 in the evening will work fine. This will greatly reduce fuel consumption and extend the usefulness of your system if you can't replenish the fuel supply. We learned this at Empire right after we moved in. The old Cat generator that came with the ranch was obviously on its' last legs as it consumed a gallon of oil and a large amount of fuel every day. To extend the life of the Cat long enough to put in our hydro we reverted to this two hours per day system. If you are careful about opening fridge. and freezer doors they will cool just fine when run two hours a day.

At Empire we had a backup diesel generator for outages and when the temp was below -10. Below -10 our creek would freeze up so much that there was not enough water to generate power for the houses so we fired up the diesel. Even at -40 there would still be some water coming through the turbine and we could plug the engine heaters on a couple of trucks or tractors and the slow turning system would keep them warm just fine but it would have burned up any electric motor in a few minutes.

I had been told to hunt for a Lister air cooled diesel generator that only turned 1200 rpm. At this slow speed that old engine would last several years before overhaul which could be accomplished right where the engine sat. It was also very efficient on fuel and totally reliable and that is what we found and installed. After twelve years on this geaerator as a backup that ran at least 2 months of the year we fell in love with these things. Their ability to start in very cold weather was truly a blessing. If the temp dropped to -10 or more we needed to fire up the backup very quickly or everything would freeze. When we decided to install back up generators at our current ranches partly out of nostalgia and partly out of the knowledge of these engines we decided again go with Listers. I found them on Ebay and had them shipped here on Uship. If the consumption table holds true we should use less than a half of a gallon per hour. So if we run them just two hours per day then with a 300 gallon fuel tank we should be able to carry on for around 300 days before we need more fuel. These are smaller 5KW models which will run our homesteads just fine. These engines can take an overload for quite some time. The good thing about them is that they cost much less than the store bought Hondas etc. for the same size. These engines can be started very easily with the included hand crank because they have a compression release that doesn't cause them to be hard to turn over by hand. The original models were the CS models and the CS stood for cold start.

My boys tease me that I am not preparing for an outage but Armageddon instead.

 

[Angus Cowman]

Idaman
you kmight try a 12v pump like they have in travel trailers for your boost pump and most of them have a built in pressure switch that turns them on and off when you open a faucet

I lived in Travel trailers alot when i was in construction and was always traveling an I have only had to replace 1 of these pumps in several yrs
I don't beleive they would work to draw water from the well because the suction is minimal as I think you will find out with the sprayer pump also

 

[Idaman]

Idaman
you kmight try a 12v pump like they have in travel trailers for your boost pump and most of them have a built in pressure switch that turns them on and off when you open a faucet

I lived in Travel trailers alot when i was in construction and was always traveling an I have only had to replace 1 of these pumps in several yrs
I don't beleive they would work to draw water from the well because the suction is minimal as I think you will find out with the sprayer pump also

The travel trailer pump might work longer too. Good idea. We just had the atv pump sitting around I hated to unibstall the one in the trailer.

You could also use the fridge from the trailer until the propane ran out. I don't know how long one would run on a 1000 gallon tank.

I need to see just how much sun power charging would be needed to run the fridge on 12v with sun as the battery charger.

At one of our houses there is a wonderful spring but it is exactly level with the house so the atv or trailer pump would really help there.

 

[Kingfisher]

That looks like Elbert Fourtner on the gate. Brings to mind a story concerning Elbert and Dad. The rules of the bull test stated the owner can do no advertising. Hereford Bulls, Inc. would handle all advertising.
Elbert had the top gaining bull and sale day came and he put a big ad sign on the front of the pen his bull was in. Of course Dad not having a timid bone in his body and not caring one bit if his opinion agreed with yours would make danged sure the rules were followed regardless of who you were. Elbert had previously purchased 4-H steers from Dad a time or two for his kids. When Dad saw the sign, it was immediately ripped off the gate and Dad sought a very public conversation with Elbert telling him in no uncertain terms what the rules he had previously agreed to were. I don't think Elbert purchased any more 4-H steers from Dad!!

Your are correct about Elbert in the picture. Behind him Larry Wagner is in the scale house door as Larry did all of our weighing so that there would be no question as to the accuracy since he was the county extension agent at the time. The fellow seated on the cement wall is me. I wouldn't have recognized the third one until I saw the ear flap hat.

That hat is my love. My wife swears I wear the flapped hat in July if a cloud comes over. That is probably right as I froze my ears at a young age while hunting cougars and my ears have since then been very sensitive to the cold. Those hats were Eddie Bauer hats and one time when we living in Canada we flew to Denver for the stock show. My hat in use at the time was getting just a little dirty and worn out so we went to the Eddie Bauer store in downtown Denver to try to find me another hat. I had to drag my wife along complaining all the way. She had envisioned the day that my ole hat would die and I would be forced to a different style. I couldn't find the hat I wanted so I asked the manager about that model. He said that they were out of production. My heart sank and I swear that my wife was jumping up and down and squealing with joy at the prospect of finally being rid of that hat. During that exibition of glee the manager said that he still had some in storage in the basement. Talk about a crestfallen wife. We went to the basement and sure enough there they were. He had nine so I bought them all and my wife nearly fainted. I now had a life supply. The only problem was that the reason they were in storage was that the bill was sown on a little crooked. We didn't discover this defect until we were back home. This strange little look just mortified my wife even more. Even today if I want to rattle her chain I just put on my "EDDIE BAUER" hat.

I remember well the incident with Elbert and Franklin. I think everyone at the sale heard that conversation. Even before that Elbert had been our biggest complainer and problem child.

Good morning. Well I suppose that's what you should call the book........." Sown a little crooked."

 

[Idaman]

That looks like Elbert Fourtner on the gate. Brings to mind a story concerning Elbert and Dad. The rules of the bull test stated the owner can do no advertising. Hereford Bulls, Inc. would handle all advertising.
Elbert had the top gaining bull and sale day came and he put a big ad sign on the front of the pen his bull was in. Of course Dad not having a timid bone in his body and not caring one bit if his opinion agreed with yours would make danged sure the rules were followed regardless of who you were. Elbert had previously purchased 4-H steers from Dad a time or two for his kids. When Dad saw the sign, it was immediately ripped off the gate and Dad sought a very public conversation with Elbert telling him in no uncertain terms what the rules he had previously agreed to were. I don't think Elbert purchased any more 4-H steers from Dad!!

Your are correct about Elbert in the picture. Behind him Larry Wagner is in the scale house door as Larry did all of our weighing so that there would be no question as to the accuracy since he was the county extension agent at the time. The fellow seated on the cement wall is me. I wouldn't have recognized the third one until I saw the ear flap hat.

That hat is my love. My wife swears I wear the flapped hat in July if a cloud comes over. That is probably right as I froze my ears at a young age while hunting cougars and my ears have since then been very sensitive to the cold. Those hats were Eddie Bauer hats and one time when we living in Canada we flew to Denver for the stock show. My hat in use at the time was getting just a little dirty and worn out so we went to the Eddie Bauer store in downtown Denver to try to find me another hat. I had to drag my wife along complaining all the way. She had envisioned the day that my ole hat would die and I would be forced to a different style. I couldn't find the hat I wanted so I asked the manager about that model. He said that they were out of production. My heart sank and I swear that my wife was jumping up and down and squealing with joy at the prospect of finally being rid of that hat. During that exibition of glee the manager said that he still had some in storage in the basement. Talk about a crestfallen wife. We went to the basement and sure enough there they were. He had nine so I bought them all and my wife nearly fainted. I now had a life supply. The only problem was that the reason they were in storage was that the bill was sown on a little crooked. We didn't discover this defect until we were back home. This strange little look just mortified my wife even more. Even today if I want to rattle her chain I just put on my "EDDIE BAUER" hat.

I remember well the incident with Elbert and Franklin. I think everyone at the sale heard that conversation. Even before that Elbert had been our biggest complainer and problem child.

Good morning. Well I suppose that's what you should call the book........." Sown a little crooked."

I think you just nailed it. My wife just loved your suggestion.

I'm in a bit of the dog house with her because I mentioned her on here before. I could post a lot more stories but I have to wait til several more people pass away.

 

[Angus Cowman]

Idaman
you kmight try a 12v pump like they have in travel trailers for your boost pump and most of them have a built in pressure switch that turns them on and off when you open a faucet

I lived in Travel trailers alot when i was in construction and was always traveling an I have only had to replace 1 of these pumps in several yrs
I don't beleive they would work to draw water from the well because the suction is minimal as I think you will find out with the sprayer pump also

The travel trailer pump might work longer too. Good idea. We just had the atv pump sitting around I hated to unibstall the one in the trailer.

You could also use the fridge from the trailer until the propane ran out. I don't know how long one would run on a 1000 gallon tank.

I need to see just how much sun power charging would be needed to run the fridge on 12v with sun as the battery charger.

At one of our houses there is a wonderful spring but it is exactly level with the house so the atv or trailer pump would really help there.

on my travel trailers I had 2 deep cycle marine batteries and they would run the fridge approximately 2 days without being hooked to anything if they were already cold and stocked on propane they would run a month on 2 30lb cylinders (4-5 gallon each I think)so on a 1000 gallon they shoud run for alooooooong time