I think I've learned a lesson. MAYBE?

[VAStocker]

My topic is compensatory gain and I think I have possibbly gotten a good grasp on it so here goes. I've bought cattle for years that were good solid cattle clean 4 weight M&L 1 and 2 for the average market price they were going for at the time put a couple hundered pounds on them and turned them over always kinda stayed clear of the calf that looked to be high risk cattle that were skin and bones long hair and so on. But what I think I've figured out is the compensatory gain on those cattle that I was buying had already been absorbed by the cow calf producer or the previous owner whitch ever it would be so the calf with the compensatory gain for the stocker cattle producer was the calf that I was avoiding the ugly calf the one that weighed 330 pounds but had the frame of a 400lb calf did not have a lot of exotic in him all he needed was some good pasture, grain and TLC and I would reap the benifits of that compensatory gain that I was missing out on the graded cattle. So am I right in my theroy or am I way off base. I thought of this as the Stock market the higher the risk the greater the return.

 

[Texas PaPaw]

VA

I have to agree with your observation. The thin, scruffy calves can really turn it on with good nutrition and management if they were nutritionally challenged and/or mismanaged previously but no permanent damage. That being said, some of these calves may have had coccidiosis, bad pneumonia or some other disease and are permanently impaired. The real trick is being able to recognize the impaired individuals from the mismanaged ones. That is part of the higher risk. Being able to separate the wheat from the chaff is what makes the difference in profitability. Even the best, most experienced buyers will get stung occasionally.

Over the years, it seems the folks that can effectively handle the thinner, plainer cattle do well, but they can be wreck for those that don't have the time, skills, facilities, etc to handle the higher risk animals. They are definitely more of a management challenge. You can't just process 'em, turn 'em out, and forget 'em until sale time. My experience is it takes 4 weeks before you are out of the woods health-wise. This is another part of the higher risk.
That's my 2 cents worth.

 

[Stocker Steve]

VA
The thin, scruffy calves can really turn it on with good nutrition and management if they were nutritionally challenged and/or mismanaged previously but no permanent damage. That being said, some of these calves may have had coccidiosis, bad pneumonia or some other disease and are permanently impaired. The real trick is being able to recognize the impaired individuals from the mismanaged ones. That is part of the higher risk. Being able to separate the wheat from the chaff is what makes the difference in profitability. Even the best, most experienced buyers will get stung occasionally.

Some buyers try to avoid purchasing cattle like this because they know 10 to 30% of them are not going to be good doers. This can really cut into your profits. One way reduce your problems with cronics is to never buy singles.

 

[Texas PaPaw]

VA
The thin, scruffy calves can really turn it on with good nutrition and management if they were nutritionally challenged and/or mismanaged previously but no permanent damage. That being said, some of these calves may have had coccidiosis, bad pneumonia or some other disease and are permanently impaired. The real trick is being able to recognize the impaired individuals from the mismanaged ones. That is part of the higher risk. Being able to separate the wheat from the chaff is what makes the difference in profitability. Even the best, most experienced buyers will get stung occasionally.

Some buyers try to avoid purchasing cattle like this because they know 10 to 30% of them are not going to be good doers. This can really cut into your profits. One way reduce your problems with cronics is to never buy singles.

Steve

Thanks for your comments & perspective. I agree that not buying singles could eliminate many chronics. However in the eastern 1/2 of Texas and, I suspect, most of the southeast US, the vast majority (90+%) of cattle sold at local auctions sell as singles. Most cow operations are small, calve year around and don't have enough calves of the same size, sex and type at one time to sell in bunches. Lots of regional differences in this business.

For the reasons you mentioned, the few bunches that do sell bring a premium over comparable singles. If a person is lucky & skillfull these high risk calves do have higher profit potential along with higher risk than the top of the line calves bought in bunches.

For anyone considering these higher risk calves, seems like it can be a roller coaster ride as everything can be going well for quite a while and then suddenly the wheels fall off for a few weeks, then things smooth out again. I would suggest proceeding very cautiously for a minimum of 2 or 3 years to get a less costly experience with higher risk calves.

Being an easily bored person, I guess the ever present challenge of these higher risk calves is what keeps my attention. Could be that I'm just a glutton for punishment.

Just trying to communicate my experience & perspective to those who may be considering a similar venture.

'Nuff said!

 

[Howdyjabo]

We have bought low end calves for 25 yrs--

You should only do it if you don't have another full time job
As paw paw said- it can be a roller coaster ride- when its bad you had better have lots of time to minimise the damage. Plus you had better have the skills to minimise the damage too.

When they don't have alot of flesh- to feed off of when they are sick- they can die/chronic fast. You can't afford to miss them when they first get sick. That means checking 2-3 times/day for the first three weeks. And having the means to catch and treat easily.
We had one load that we treated 30 hd one day and 20 the next- then had to pull repulls for weeks- it was a mess.

You can use Micotil to stabalize the work load-- but that makes the calf cost almost as much as the the good ones.

 

[mnmtranching]

You buyers with the good eye for cattle can do good on buyin low end cattle, singles. The ones that are droopy, slow acting, running nose etc are a risk, but real cheap. Antibiotics asap and kept away from healthy animals. Still I'm not going that route I would rather pay more for the healthy looking ones.

 

[angie1]

You buyers with the good eye for cattle can do good on buyin low end cattle, singles. The ones that are droopy, slow acting, running nose etc are a risk, but real cheap. Antibiotics asap and kept away from healthy animals. Still I'm not going that route I would rather pay more for the healthy looking ones.

We have bought both ways and this (above) is the conclusion I have come to as well. The pleasure of having cattle is a huge motivator for me. There is NO pleasure in the hours and dollars it takes to pull some of these guys through.

 

[Stocker Steve]

We comingled 3 small groups and 4 singles about three weeks ago. We also tried a different receiving program than our usual "silver bullet." All are on feed but we have a lot more snotty noses than usual rotating through the herd. I pulled and checked three head this afternoon. Their temps were between 102.5 and 103.9 F.

Do you pull snotty noses, feed them medicated crumbles, or just pull the slow ones??? Thanks for the tips.

 

[angie1]

We pulled all that appeared to have issues. Like someone else said ~ once they start going, they can go fast. Also, did not want them sharing their 'funk' with the rest.

 

[VAStocker]

We have always refrained from pulling calves with just a snotty nose, if that is the only sign that the calf has an issue if the calf is off feed and generally slow I will ussally pull him. My vet. told me some years ago to think of them as kids how many kids do you see on a playground with a snotty nose.

On a new calf that comes in at what body temp. do you justify treatment? I've always used 104.0 as a breaking point although I have read on here where people have treated calfs @102.5-103.0

 

[Howdyjabo]

This is just for fresh bought calves-- with home grown I might worry more about snotty noses and coughing.

I ignore snotty noses/coughing. When a calf is sick it has them- but so do lots of the healthy ones. I'm looking for attitude changes first then gaunt ,droopy ears, diahreah.

The temperature cut off depends on the weather and how much running/excitement went on.
104.5 is my base depending on environmental factors it will go up or down.


Occasionally I will treat one with a lower temp.
I pulled them cause I saw something I didn't like and on top of that- if they are gaunt and underfleshed I'll treat them anyhow just to be safe with a long acting antibiotic.
They aren't eating and have no extra flesh making them primed to get sick hard and fast if they aren't already.

I rarely pull one thinking it was sick- and find a low temperature but I've been doing this for 25 yrs..........
Every now and again I'll pull one that I have been watching(while I'm pulling some others- just cause its so easy to get them too). If its temp is low(and its got flesh) I'll leave it alone.

 

[jbar]

go to the sale early,take note of the farmer fresh ones,being unloaded or ask some of the salebarn help to keep an eye out for good fresh singles. put togeather a bunch and take them back and get those preimums you where talking about.it dose take alot of time and you cant just run to sale get a truck load. you make money when you buy. (your in charge when you buy) the market set your sell price,you set your buy price.