2023's Animal versus Feed Breakdown, How am I doing? Suggestions

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farmerjan said:
We figure in most all the costs to be charged against a cow... it is costing in the neighborhood of $2.00/ day to keep a cow. That is figuring everything... feed/pasture value/vaccs/vet costs.... hay bale value. So around $700-750 per year per cow costs. She has to produce a calf a year... right now value on the calves is good... we averaged in the $1200-1500 range for calves sold... taking into account for heifers vs steers and weights of 4-550 lbs... at $2.25 to 2.75 / pound. Normal years when calf prices weren't so good we figured $700-1000 per calf realized in sales. They barely paid to keep the cow for the year. Our labor is free..... We kept a good number of calves back, weaned, to feed silage to and will be selling the first group next month... they will weigh in the 650-800 range I guess.. I haven't looked close at them... son will have a friend come and they will go through and "grade them" here and put together a few groups.... There are about 75-80 calves on feed this year... more than we have ever kept...there are heifers in there and some will be put out to pasture for replacements since we only kept 5 total last year... haven't been buying too many replacement cows since they have been high... but we had the silage and it is 2 yrs in the bunk so needs feeding.... son buys odd singles and such at the sales when he can, mostly bulls, and we work them and put them on feed and can add to the size of some groups.
We used to trailer wean and had 5-15 calves to sell at a time... had to get bigger to generate the cash flow for when he bought the first farm...then when he bought the 2nd farm from the widow of the friend that passed away, after renting for 8 years, we HAD to have enough animals to make the payments.
Sometimes I wish we were still smaller... but the cattle sale checks are paying for payments on the 2 farms, and for the expenses of running them... if he didn't have a full time off the farm job, he wouldn't be able to pay for his house and live a decent life... I have had a full time job for 40 years +.... to pay for my own housing... and it was never a high paying job but I got by... now the money from my cattle sales is "extra" for me... in retirement years...
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I'm doing books right now and it's a little over 2.
Looks to be about 2.05 for me that's 748 bucks a year to keep ole Belle in the pasture.
 
farmerjan said:
We figure in most all the costs to be charged against a cow... it is costing in the neighborhood of $2.00/ day to keep a cow. That is figuring everything... feed/pasture value/vaccs/vet costs.... hay bale value. So around $700-750 per year per cow costs. She has to produce a calf a year... right now value on the calves is good... we averaged in the $1200-1500 range for calves sold... taking into account for heifers vs steers and weights of 4-550 lbs... at $2.25 to 2.75 / pound. Normal years when calf prices weren't so good we figured $700-1000 per calf realized in sales. They barely paid to keep the cow for the year. Our labor is free..... We kept a good number of calves back, weaned, to feed silage to and will be selling the first group next month... they will weigh in the 650-800 range I guess.. I haven't looked close at them... son will have a friend come and they will go through and "grade them" here and put together a few groups.... There are about 75-80 calves on feed this year... more than we have ever kept...there are heifers in there and some will be put out to pasture for replacements since we only kept 5 total last year... haven't been buying too many replacement cows since they have been high... but we had the silage and it is 2 yrs in the bunk so needs feeding.... son buys odd singles and such at the sales when he can, mostly bulls, and we work them and put them on feed and can add to the size of some groups.
We used to trailer wean and had 5-15 calves to sell at a time... had to get bigger to generate the cash flow for when he bought the first farm...then when he bought the 2nd farm from the widow of the friend that passed away, after renting for 8 years, we HAD to have enough animals to make the payments.
Sometimes I wish we were still smaller... but the cattle sale checks are paying for payments on the 2 farms, and for the expenses of running them... if he didn't have a full time off the farm job, he wouldn't be able to pay for his house and live a decent life... I have had a full time job for 40 years +.... to pay for my own housing... and it was never a high paying job but I got by... now the money from my cattle sales is "extra" for me... in retirement years...
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Thank you farmerjan, very detailed....and I can see, even as big as your operation is, you still need the full time job in the city. In the past how long did you wean your calves on the trailer? That's something new I never heard of.
My small herd just paid for their feed, upkeep and my truck parts on my 4th year...hoping by 6th year onward I can pay my "truck parts & "property taxes" on my house and all properties we own. That's my gameplan...besides enjoying and making things easier every year as I get older.
 
Trailer weaned means loading on trailer, taken directly off cows at the barn, hauled to town....sold...

My full time job is a milk tester, on dairy farms, for over 30 years... used to waitress part-time also... and did relief milking on a farm and did some relief A I breeding inbetween.
Son works for VDOT full time.
 
Mark Reynolds said:
I understand exactly what you are saying here. I'm going to urge caution here because you aren't considering nutritional content of the feed, which makes ALL the difference in forage. Consider this: If the nutritional content of hay is poor enough (and I've seen this) You can starve an animal with a full rumen. Conversely, you can have cattle so short on volume of forage and are 'hungry' to the point they are eating wooden fence posts, crates, stalls, trailers, etc..... but you are feeding the animal a small amount of nutrient rich forage, it's getting pretty much everything it needs.
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MR- Yeah, forage-fiber for their rumen is super important and cows can't get that with cattle cubes...I used whole-crushed corn and crushed oats, alfalpa cubes during the 2022 drought in the fall, when i couldn't FIND hay even to buy...i used more "seed grains" as a crutch for my cattle. I never want to experience that kind of drought where corn stalk hay isn't available. Never seen, never knew cows eat wood structures when they're hungry....don't ever want to see that. I believe they would leave me a message and push tthrough the fence first. Mr Bull would not put up with that of treatment...1,950 to 2,200 lbs he'd push though any fence.
 
farmerjan said:
Trailer weaned means loading on trailer, taken directly off cows at the barn, hauled to town....sold...

My full time job is a milk tester, on dairy farms, for over 30 years... used to waitress part-time also... and did relief milking on a farm and did some relief A I breeding inbetween.
Son works for VDOT full time.
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Gotcha, I was thinking you must have a big trailer...keeping them there for 5 days full of hay and buckets. Nice! Trailer weaned to the sale barn. So when they ask you if the calves are weaned at the sale barn....you always say "yes"!
 
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farmerjan said:
@Caustic Burno does a very tight budget most every year in figuring costs to keep a cow in his neck of the woods...
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CB does, there's no allowances on costs for cattle on his operation. I cover one eye on my farm fencing-maintenence- and enhancements/improvements costs as long-term improvements, not counting against cattle....CB is correct to capture them all. If i faced CB's tight budget truths...I'd be out of cattle by now...lol I can't handle the truth...so i bend to my liken.
 
No, we do not say those calves are weaned if asked... but we haven't sold trailer weaned calves in several years. Anything we sell as weaned, are weaned a minimum of 30-usually at least 45-60 days, are vaccinated and are bunk and waterer broke. We have people that see us bring a load to the sale and ask what pens they are in and have several repeat buyers over the years. We even had a guy we know quite well, local, that bought a group of calves, and he lost one a week later... and son found out, and went to him at the next sale and offered a refund on that calf... NOT OUR FAULT .... and the guy said, that is part of the game... he lost 2 , 1 of ours and one other, and that is just part of it... and said no, it was not our fault but thanked son for the offer.
If it is weaned from us, it is not a bawler... it is weaned and on feed.....
 
farmerjan said:
No, we do not say those calves are weaned if asked... but we haven't sold trailer weaned calves in several years. Anything we sell as weaned, are weaned a minimum of 30-usually at least 45-60 days, are vaccinated and are bunk and waterer broke. We have people that see us bring a load to the sale and ask what pens they are in and have several repeat buyers over the years. We even had a guy we know quite well, local, that bought a group of calves, and he lost one a week later... and son found out, and went to him at the next sale and offered a refund on that calf... NOT OUR FAULT .... and the guy said, that is part of the game... he lost 2 , 1 of ours and one other, and that is just part of it... and said no, it was not our fault but thanked son for the offer.
If it is weaned from us, it is not a bawler... it is weaned and on feed.....
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Even if it is a weaned dairy crossbred "INFERIOR" animal....
 
GoWyo said:
My primary lease pastures are $1.09/head per day. I use that figure for my own pasture as well. Some leases are cheaper, but have costs to haul and check them. Ten months grazing is $330/head per year. One ton of hay is $200 to feed the other two months. Total cost is $530/head not counting time, machinery, repairs. That's $1.45/head per day.
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Jeeze, time sure flies and times change... $330 is what I paid per acre for my place in Arkansas.
 
Peace said:
I know you put it in quotes, but why do people believe they're inferior. I've found they do take a bit longer or more grain to finish, but tend to have more marbling and just as good if not better taste.
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Inferior in that for every pound of growth they are more belly and bone than a good beef animal that has more meat per pound of gain. They may eat fine, but you'll get more edible pounds as a ratio of both live weight and carcass weight with a beefy type.
 
Peace said:
I know you put it in quotes, but why do people believe they're inferior. I've found they do take a bit longer or more grain to finish, but tend to have more marbling and just as good if not better taste.
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To feedlots, taking longer on feed and less yield is exactly what makes them inferior, and they are the ones that set the market. I think most would agree the meat quality is fine.

Edit: Travlr was quicker on the keyboard than I was.
 
GoWyo said:
My primary lease pastures are $1.09/head per day. I use that figure for my own pasture as well. Some leases are cheaper, but have costs to haul and check them. Ten months grazing is $330/head per year. One ton of hay is $200 to feed the other two months. Total cost is $530/head not counting time, machinery, repairs. That's $1.45/head per day.
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Am i reading this correctly that your giving 33.30 per month per head? For 10 months? I dont know of anything over $10 per head per month here.
 
kenny thomas said:
Am i reading this correctly that your giving 33.30 per month per head? For 10 months? I dont know of anything over $10 per head per month here.
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Yes. I have leases that run from $20/hd/month (AUM in our vernacular) to $33. In Nebraska the rate is more like $40-60. Our prices here reflect some pressure from Nebraska. Further west it is still $25-30. Statewide is around $25. We have a state lease that costs around $5.35 per AUM to the state, but we own the wells, pipeline and fences on it. Our own land provides about 37-40% of our total AUMs that we graze.

The $33/AUM lease is out the gate on the neighbors, but that may be about to end. Our other leases are 20 to 65 miles away near Cheyenne, so even though they are cheaper, there is the cost of hauling to and fro and checking on cows. These are primarily summer and fall use and all cows come home in the fall as late as we can keep them out on leases to stockpile our pastures for winter and spring use.
 
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Travlr said:
Jeeze, time sure flies and times change... $330 is what I paid per acre for my place in Arkansas.
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I think the surface value for private grazing land in eastern Wyoming is about $600/acre and if there are any minerals, scenery or live water the price goes up exponentially. It takes about 20 acres to support a cow for a year plus about one ton of purchased hay. We bought this place at ag land values in 2014. Pretty sure we could sell it for near double if we marketed it right, but I kind of like it here for now.
 
Peace said:
I know you put it in quotes, but why do people believe they're inferior. I've found they do take a bit longer or more grain to finish, but tend to have more marbling and just as good if not better taste.
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The inferior part in quotes goes back to some comments made in another post about how when people breed something like corriente's, (or the ones that are dairy x beef), to a beef breed (angus was originally referred as well as some of the ultra blacks and brangus) and then marketed the calves, that we were being dishonest and putting an inferior product out there..misleading the buyers... which I have NEVER purposely done.... Sorry, I was just quite peeved over the whole thread and the implications of "passing off" what were referred to as inferior animals, for "high dollar prices" and my reputation was obviously not of any concern to do so... so I just had to throw that in here about it being inferior animals... I just got some beef from a dairy farmer that killed a steer out of my 1/2 guernsey, 1/2 holstein cow... that he bred to a red/white holstein bull... and it is marbled better than anything and he said you can cut it with a fork.... I am going to take some pictures and can't wait to try it. Plus it was a huge steer... just under 2 yrs old... and hung at about 1200 lbs... I saw the animal live, and they have pics..... the butcher said he did not want to do another one that big... and he said it would be tough... and my farmer said he took a piece to the butcher because he had to prove how FANTASTIC it was....
So it is a little bit of a feather in my cap and I had to just take the opportunity to get that "jab" in there about the inferior....
I have been eating jersey and jersey cross beef for over 40 years... it is the best in my opinion; right up there with guernsey beef...
 
GoWyo said:
Yes. I have leases that run from $20/hd/month (AUM in our vernacular) to $33. In Nebraska the rate is more like $40-60. Our prices here reflect some pressure from Nebraska. Further west it is still $25-30. Statewide is around $25. We have a state lease that costs around $5.35 per AUM to the state, but we own the wells, pipeline and fences on it. Our own land provides about 37-40% of our total AUMs that we graze.
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I've got to chime in here. Unfortunately, it seems most of my colleges do not know what an AUM is. (NRCS employees). It's also a 'term' that ia a lot less frequently used in the eastern US than the West. An AUM (Animal Unit Month) is, by definition the quantity of forage grazed by 1,000 lbs of live animal weight during a month. Grazing animals consume just under 3% of their body weight per day. When you calculate it out, an AUM becomes a standard quantity much the same as 'a ton' is. By this I mean: 1 AUM = 790 lbs (approximately) the way 1 Ton = 2,000 lbs. I have to use this value when calculating forage production values from Web Soil Survey which conveniently (or not so conveniently) recorded forage production by soil type in AUMs for about 2/3 of the soils in South Carolina. It's somewhat inconvenient to do this, but it is way more accurate for the producer than using a state "average" production amount that could be up to 3 tons per acre over or under the production of the field in question based on soil type.

I know. TMI for some of you. I imagine there are also some of you that didn't know what an AUM was.
 
Mark Reynolds said:
I've got to chime in here. Unfortunately, it seems most of my colleges do not know what an AUM is. (NRCS employees). It's also a 'term' that ia a lot less frequently used in the eastern US than the West. An AUM (Animal Unit Month) is, by definition the quantity of forage grazed by 1,000 lbs of live animal weight during a month. Grazing animals consume just under 3% of their body weight per day. When you calculate it out, an AUM becomes a standard quantity much the same as 'a ton' is. By this I mean: 1 AUM = 790 lbs (approximately) the way 1 Ton = 2,000 lbs. I have to use this value when calculating forage production values from Web Soil Survey which conveniently (or not so conveniently) recorded forage production by soil type in AUMs for about 2/3 of the soils in South Carolina. It's somewhat inconvenient to do this, but it is way more accurate for the producer than using a state "average" production amount that could be up to 3 tons per acre over or under the production of the field in question based on soil type.

I know. TMI for some of you. I imagine there are also some of you that didn't know what an AUM was.
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What we pay for and what the cows eat are probably divergent. Only 1000-1100# cows we have are currently the bred heifers. My cows probably eat 1000# of dry matter per month.
 
kenny thomas said:
I'm missing something, why are you using 790lb instead of 1000lb?
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It's a matter of calculating it out. It's been awhile since I did the calculation and the last time I tried it, I actually couldn't get it to pencil, but Georgia actually uses the same value (790) that I calculated many years ago when I couldn't actually find a reference. I know (remember anyway) that I calculated the 790 value using 365 days a year and divided that be 12 months, used 1,000 lbs of live animal weight (by definition, 1 Animal Unit) (most cows weigh 1,200-1,400 lbs so 1.2-1.4 AUs each) and I think I used 3% as the percentage of body weight an animal takes in in terms of forage on a daily basis. An AU (animal unit) = 1,000 lb live weight, An AUM (Animau Unit MOnth) is the quantity of forage this AU consumes in a month = 790 lbs.
 

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