Hydrgen peroxide

[Jogeephus]

I've stayed out of this sales pitch but Dr. Flowerchild. You had me on the floor Scrubs. :lol:

Scrubs, you might know this and I'm curious. As for the claims of peroxide curing cancer, don't doctors try to keep oxygen from the cancer lest it spred more rapidly?

 

[OxyBlast]

Wow there are some real friendly people on this forum. :roll:

"Singlet oxygen" would be a free radical. Last I heard free radicals are bad and do not limit their oxidation to just industrial toxins and waste products. It might just as easily attack a DNA strand and cause cancer.

Hello SCRUBS620

So are you saying oxygen is bad for us and our bodies? Ok cut off your air supply and see how long you last...lol.
Lets see what William Koch had to say about free radicals(William Kochs teacher was Moses Gomberg the discoverer of free radicals)

Williams F. Koch, MD, Ph.D
"The cause of free radicals in the human body is the LACK OF OXYGEN."

Here is another statement by someone who should know what they are talking about.

"Singlet O1 is a especially reactive form of oxygen capable of rapidly oxidizing many molecules, including membrane lipids. Its formation in O2 generating systems has often been proposed but CLEAR CUT EVIDENCE FOR A DAMAGING ROLE OF SINGLET O1 IN SUCH SYSTEMS HAS NOT BEEN OBTAINED."
B. Halliwell, Department of Biochemistry, University of London Kings College, London, UK---- Oxygen Radicals: A Commonsense Look at Their Nature and Medical Importance"


Now SCRUBS620 it is time to put away your science books from the 1980's and step into 2007. Here is an article that shows antioxidants regulate or control reactive oxygen species NOT destroy them. So in essence we can say this.

The difference between healthy cells and diseased cells is this. Healthy cells make a self-protective antioxidant coating. The healthy cells naturally protect themselves with this coating BUT diseased cells cannot do this! Diseased cells cannot produce this antioxidant coating protecting themselves therefore they are susceptible to oxidation. Here is an article to prove it....


Antioxidant found in many foods and red wine is potent and selective killer of leukemia cells

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 042307.php


University of Pittsburgh researchers show compound kills leukemia cells while sparing normal, healthy cells

PITTSBURGH, April 23 -- A naturally occurring compound found in many fruits and vegetables as well as red wine, selectively kills leukemia cells in culture while showing no discernible toxicity against healthy cells, according to a study by researchers at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine. These findings, which were published online March 20 in the Journal of Biological Chemistry and will be in press on May 4, offer hope for a more selective, less toxic therapy for leukemia.

Current treatments for leukemia, such as chemotherapy and radiation, often damage healthy cells and tissues and can produce unwanted side effects for many years afterward.


When the investigators studied the mechanism of cell death in the leukemia cells, they found that C-3-R induced the accumulation of peroxides, a highly reactive form of oxygen, which, in turn, activated a mitochondria-mediated apoptotic pathway. Mitochondria are specialized structures located within all cells in the body that contain enzymes needed by the cell to metabolize foodstuffs into energy sources. In contrast, when the researchers treated normal human blood cells with C-3-R, they did not find any increased accumulation of reactive oxygen species and there were no apparent toxic effects on these cells.

Dr. Yins work suggests that although C-3-R demonstrates antioxidant effects in the normal cells, it paradoxically induces an oxidative stress in the tumor cells.

According to Dr. Yin, these results indicate that C-3-R has the promising potential to be used in leukemia therapy with the advantages of being highly selective against cancer cells. Because this compound is widely available in foods, it is very likely that it is not toxic even in purified form. Therefore, if we can reproduce these anti-cancer effects in animal studies, this will present a very promising approach for treating a variety of human leukemias and, perhaps, lymphomas as well."



So SCRUBS620 as we can see the University of Pittsburgh has found that antioxidants regulate reactive oxygen species and induce them into the unhealthy diseased cells BUT they do not damage or harm the healthy cells! Wow! Isnt that amazing. And isnt that the same thing I have said. ;-)

Have you never picked up a science book. Oh wait they are part of the conspiracy!! Bacteria and fungi use carbon compunds for fuel (sugars, starches, etc.) for fuel regardless of the type of bacteria it is (I work in a medical laboratory and we grow bacteria all the time). Viruses dont even possess the ability to burn anything. They use DNA or RNA to trick the hosts cells into doing their reproduction. Last but not least Aerobic, not anaerobic, bacteria are the main cause for disease

I never said that aerobic bacteria does not cause disease. The important thing to remember is that normal healthy human(and animal) cells love oxygen and lots of it. That is where the antioxidants come into to play.



Dr. Freibott explains why oxygen and oxidation is so vital: "It is the lack of oxygen in proper amounts in the system that prevents oxidation and oxygenation, which energizes the cell to biological regeneration. These processes are the "foundations of life and death"."

Dr. Otto Warburg, who won the Nobel Prize for Medicine, proved that the growth of cancer is inhibited in a high-oxygen environment. His Nobel laureate lecture showed that when oxidation fails and fermentation is substituted for a cell's energy, the pathway to cancer is opened. Today, noted authorities also stress that most diseases, especially yeast or fungal infections like candida albicans, occur most frequently in an oxygen-poor environment in the body.

Dr. Parris Kidd has stated that: "Oxygen plays a pivotal role in the proper functioning of the immune system: i.e. resistance to disease, bacteria and viruses."

An unfortunate side effect of antibiotic therapy is that it generally is not as selective and kills the good bacteria as well as the bad. When levels of beneficial bacteria are reduced we lose our natural balance that keeps the disease-causing bacteria under control.

Dr. Steven Levine, a respected nutrition researcher, states: “We can look at oxygen deficiency as the single greatest cause of all diseases. "


So it seems to me that the lack of oxygen is the cause of all diseases.....

The errors and false or misconstrued statements in your responses is mind boggling but par for the course for most holistic approaches I have seen. Maybe H2O2 is beneficial and these farmers have saved money but why do you have to make up "scientific" explanations to boast your claims. If the H202 treatments work for cleaning the water system great but please get an education before you start spewing this garbage again.

Hey SCRUBS620 I have an education. What I have stated is not errors or false statements as I have shown. Looks like you need readup about free radicals and how free radicals are necessary. Put away your 1980's science books. I have provided enough scientific evidence here for people to realize that normal healthy cells are NOT going to be harmed by extra "singlet oxygen" in your body. In fact it has been proven that extra oxygen multiplies the production of healthy cells. That is why it is so important for us and our animals to get extra oxygen into their system. What better way to do this than hydrogen peroxide. Right SCRUBS620? ;-)

 

[OxyBlast]

I've stayed out of this sales pitch but Dr. Flowerchild. You had me on the floor Scrubs. :lol:

Scrubs, you might know this and I'm curious. As for the claims of peroxide curing cancer, don't doctors try to keep oxygen from the cancer lest it spred more rapidly?

Well I know radiotherapy produces MORE FREE RADICALS therefore killing the cancer cells. They have also found that treating the diseased area with oxygen allows the therapy a cancer patient is using to be more powerful. ;-)

 

[SCRUBS620]

Hello SCRUBS620

So are you saying oxygen is bad for us and our bodies? Ok cut off your air supply and see how long you last...lol.

I am not saying that OXYGEN is bad for your body but "singlet" oxygen produced from the breakdown of H2O2 is not in the normal stabilized state that we breath in. Oxygen in the air is O2, not a single atom of oxygen. Oxygen without a partner is a free radical. A free radical is an unpaired molecule capable of oxidizing other molecules. Free radicals are dangerous because they form a cascade of oxidation. What I was refuting was your claim that it only attacks the wastes and toxins in our bodies when in fact it will oxidize anything to satisfy the need to be bonded to something.

When the investigators studied the mechanism of cell death in the leukemia cells, they found that C-3-R induced the accumulation of peroxides, a highly reactive form of oxygen, which, in turn, activated a mitochondria-mediated apoptotic pathway. Mitochondria are specialized structures located within all cells in the body that contain enzymes needed by the cell to metabolize foodstuffs into energy sources. In contrast, when the researchers treated normal human blood cells with C-3-R, they did not find any increased accumulation of reactive oxygen species and there were no apparent toxic effects on these cells.

Dr. Yins work suggests that although C-3-R demonstrates antioxidant effects in the normal cells, it paradoxically induces an oxidative stress in the tumor cells.

According to Dr. Yin, these results indicate that C-3-R has the promising potential to be used in leukemia therapy with the advantages of being highly selective against cancer cells. Because this compound is widely available in foods, it is very likely that it is not toxic even in purified form. Therefore, if we can reproduce these anti-cancer effects in animal studies, this will present a very promising approach for treating a variety of human leukemias and, perhaps, lymphomas as well."

Are we talking about C-3-R or H2O2? From what I read above C-3-R induces cytotoxic peroxides that cause apoptosis (cell death). The C-3-R caused the initiation of the cascade, the peroxides caused the cell death. In the healthy cells the cascade just did not happen. This article proves nothing about H2O2 except that peroxides can be toxic to cells.

So SCRUBS620 as we can see the University of Pittsburgh has found that antioxidants regulate reactive oxygen species and induce them into the unhealthy diseased cells BUT they do not damage or harm the healthy cells! Wow! Isnt that amazing. And isnt that the same thing I have said.

No!! An unpaired atom of oxygen would be a free radical not an antioxidant. I am not going to keep going with this its just another attempt to skew the existing evidence to your favor.

Like I said if your system works great. Just learn the facts before you are so eager to "educate" everyone else. By the way I would have been 6 in 1980.

In fact it has been proven that extra oxygen multiplies the production of healthy cells. That is why it is so important for us and our animals to get extra oxygen into their system. What better way to do this than hydrogen peroxide. Right SCRUBS620?

Alright I said I was not going any further but this proves my point. O2 an O are not the same thing!!!!!!!!!!. Salt is NaCl but pure Na (sodium) is extremely flammable and Cl (Chlorine) is a deadly gas. Its the fact that their are paired up that stabilizes them and makes them safe and an essential nutrient.

From Jogeephus:

I've stayed out of this sales pitch but Dr. Flowerchild. You had me on the floor Scrubs.

Scrubs, you might know this and I'm curious. As for the claims of peroxide curing cancer, don't doctors try to keep oxygen from the cancer lest it spred more rapidly?

Thanks, I do not like the holistic community for these very reasons. My uncle had cancer, he went to a holistic medicine person who convinced him that he had cancer because he was eating food and that if he stopped eating his cancer would go away (there might have been some rediculous diet-I cant remember)!! He refused to get conventional treatments and my uncle died 6 months later about 100 pounds lighter and still believing the garbage that this person fed him. As far as the cancer question, it is true that doctors try to keep cancer from getting extra normal oxygen because it does enhance its growth (come cancers cause extra blood vessels to form just to feed them). H2O2 does not release the normal oxygen that we breath but a highly reactive form. I honestly dont know what it would do, it might depend on what type of cancer it is. My points were that OXYBLAST was mutilating the truth to support his claims. He uses the same tactics that I have seen and heard a thousand times from other holistic vendors. I think there is probably some good in holistic treatments but there is way more garbage. There is no regulation of how or what they sell their products for and there are not any studies to prove or disprove their claims. If a study did come out that disproved their claims they would dismiss it as a conspiracy. If it even hinted at its effectiveness it would be touted as the absolute truth.

 

[cfpinz]

Will it help my sex life?

cfpinz

 

[rockridgecattle]

 

[OxyBlast]

Will it help my sex life?

cfpinz

Hey cfpinz

LOL..... :lol: Well we may find out eventually that hydrogen peroxide does help with ones sex life...lol.

What we do know is that hydrogen peroxide protects the female egg. So in essence hydrogen peroxide helps with fertility. Just imagine your cattle being more fertile with faster breeding times. (We have seen this in the field also) Unlike what SCRUBS620 thinks H2O2 is being shown to NOT be a destroyer but a necessary protector. Again SCRUBS620 is shown to be wrong....



Free radicals and fertilization: Study reveals egg protection secret

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 120604.php



PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- Brown University researchers have discovered an enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide in the fertilized eggs of sea urchins. This infection-fighting free radical helps create a barrier around the egg, keeping out invading sperm, harmful bacteria and other destructive forces.

Their finding, published in the current issue of Developmental Cell, solves a century-old biology riddle. In most animals, such as sea urchins, fish, mice and humans, only one sperm fertilizes an egg. If multiple sperm fuse with the egg, a process known as polyspermy, the embryo will die. So the fertilized egg quickly creates protective barriers. Scientists have known for more than 30 years that, in sea urchins, hydrogen peroxide is a key player in this process. Until now, they did not know how that potentially toxic substance was produced or controlled.

Julian Wong, a Brown research associate and lead researcher on the project, set out to find the gene responsible for pumping out this peroxide. In the Sea Urchin Genome Project database, Wong found a gene that he suspected was key for this process because it looked similar to one that produces peroxide in the human thyroid.

After a series of experiments using sea urchins, Wong found that his guess was correct. While the egg matures, this gene is turned on and creates an enzyme known as urchin dual oxidase, or Udx1. Immediately after fertilization, Udx1 is activated to produce peroxide. The peroxide is then used to "stitch" together proteins on a thin layer surrounding the egg, hardening it into a tough coating. The process is complete about five minutes after fertilization.

Wong showed this essential role by obstructing the function of Udx1. When its activity was blocked, the protective barrier didn't harden, leaving the embryo vulnerable.

The authors were surprised by the results. "The best model we had was in white blood cells, which use a similar burst of hydrogen peroxide to kill bacteria," Wong said. "So we always thought that the mechanism would be similar. But what happens in the egg is more like what happens in the thyroid, suggesting that this Udx1 mechanism is versatile and non-lethal."

"Nature is thrifty," said Gary Wessel, senior scientist on the project and professor of biology in the Department of Molecular Biology, Cell Biology and Biochemistry. "Cells can take one process, adapt it, and use it in completely different ways."

Wessel said that human eggs also create a barrier against polyspermy after fertilization. While the production of peroxide in this process hasn't been proven in humans, Wessel said scientists suspect a similar process occurs. If true, a damaged or missing peroxide-producing gene could explain one source of infertility.

Wessel said their finding also sheds light on the contributions of free radicals to reproductive biology. Typically, free radicals damage cells. But Wessel said these molecules can also be helpful, killing germs, reducing high blood pressure or, in this case, protecting fertilized eggs.

Robbert Créton, assistant professor of biology, also participated in the study. The National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation funded the work.

 

[OxyBlast]

Free radicals are dangerous because they form a cascade of oxidation. What I was refuting was your claim that it only attacks the wastes and toxins in our bodies when in fact it will oxidize anything to satisfy the need to be bonded to something.

Hey SCRUBS620

I have posted several different articles refuting your claim that hydrogen peroxide is dangerous. It is not and these scientific article prove it. It is a necessary part of our human body. And it only attacks unhealthy cells not the healthy ones. Can you have an excessive amount of free radicals of course. There are different types of free radicals also. But that doesn't mean a conservative amount is dangerous. It is clearly not.

Are we talking about C-3-R or H2O2? From what I read above C-3-R induces cytotoxic peroxides that cause apoptosis (cell death). The C-3-R caused the initiation of the cascade, the peroxides caused the cell death. In the healthy cells the cascade just did not happen. This article proves nothing about H2O2 except that peroxides can be toxic to cells.

Of course the article proves something. It proves that hydrogen peroxide does NOT damage the healthy cells. It is that simple you obviously just dont want to see it when it is right there in the article. Plus the article I just posted above. Why did the cascade not happen in the healthy cells? The hydrogen peroxide was still there? According to your theory it should have destroyed the healthy cells also. BUT IT DIDNT! Same thing with the article above. Hydrogen peroxide, according to your theory, should have destroyed the egg BUT we see that it actually protected it! So this just proves your theories on hydrogen peroxide are flawed.

No!! An unpaired atom of oxygen would be a free radical not an antioxidant. I am not going to keep going with this its just another attempt to skew the existing evidence to your favor.

Like I said if your system works great. Just learn the facts before you are so eager to "educate" everyone else. By the way I would have been 6 in 1980.

I know what a free radical is. And I have posted several different scientific articles to back up what I am saying. Free radicals are NOT dangerous and only attack unhealthy cells. What scientific articles or studies have you posted to refute the scientific articles I posted?


SCRUBS620 have a great day! I see you are from Indiana. We are located in Wayne county.

 

[OxyBlast]

Hey Folks

Here even the government is using hydrogen peroxide in water systems. Note how they say it is safer, cheaper than other systems they have used. ;-)



You still can't drink the water, but now you can touch it


http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 011007.php


Laboratory filtration system kills 100 percent of dangerous microbes in water taken from Hurricane Katrina disaster

Engineers have developed a system that uses a simple water purification technique that can eliminate 100 percent of the microbes in New Orleans water samples left from Hurricane Katrina. The technique makes use of specialized resins, copper and hydrogen peroxide to purify tainted water.

The system--safer, cheaper and simpler to use than many other methods--breaks down a range of toxic chemicals. While the method cleans the water, it doesn't yet make the water drinkable. However, the method may eventually prove critical for limiting the spread of disease at disaster sites around the world.

National Science Foundation-funded researchers Vishal Shah and Shreya Shah of Dowling College in Long Island, New York, collaborated with Boris Dzikovski of Cornell University and Jose Pinto of New York's Polytechnic University in Brooklyn to develop the technique. They will publish their findings in Environmental Pollution.

"After the disaster of Hurricane Katrina, scientists have had their backs against the wall trying to develop safeguards," said Shah. "No one knows when a similar situation may arise. We need to develop a treatment for decontaminating flood water before it either comes in contact with humans or is pumped into natural reservoirs."

The treatment system that the researchers are developing is simple: a polymer sheet of resins containing copper is immersed in the contaminated flood water. The addition of hydrogen peroxide generates free radicals on the polymer. The free radicals remain bound to the sheet, where they come in contact with bacteria and kill them.

The researchers are working to lower the amount of copper in the treated water end product and improving the system's impact on chemical toxins. Shah believes it could be ready for emergency use within five to seven years.

To develop their process, the researchers built upon a century-old chemical mechanism called the Fenton reaction - a process wherein metal catalysts cause hydrogen peroxide to produce large numbers of free radicals.

Free radicals are atoms or molecules that have an extra electron in dire need of a partner (they obtain the partner by stripping it from a nearby atom, damaging the "victim" in the process). In large quantities, the radicals can destroy toxic chemicals and even bombard bacteria to death or irreparably damage a microorganism's cell membrane.

Applying their technique to water from the Industrial and 17th Street canals in New Orleans, the researchers were able to destroy all of the bacteria within 15 minutes. In tests with laboratory water samples containing even higher bacterial concentrations, the exact same process killed at least 99 percent of the bacteria in 90 minutes.

 

[SCRUBS620]

Oxyblast wrote:

I have posted several different articles refuting your claim that hydrogen peroxide is dangerous. It is not and these scientific article prove it. It is a necessary part of our human body. And it only attacks unhealthy cells not the healthy ones. Can you have an excessive amount of free radicals of course. There are different types of free radicals also. But that doesn't mean a conservative amount is dangerous. It is clearly not.

Thank you for admitting that you can have too many free radicals. It is a fine balance between the free radicals and the antioxidants that are able to give up an electron to stop the free radical cascade. I am not saying H2O2 is totally bad, not at all. I was simply pointing out that you were severly misleading people when you said time and again that H2O2 is totally safe and that it breaks down into only water and oxygen. NOTHING is totally safe. Oxygen, salt, water, and sugar are all essential for the lifegiving reactions in our bodies. Too much sugar and you have diabetes. Too much oxygen can cause oxygen poisoning (see article below). To much salt can cause lethargy, seizures, coma, and death. Too much water? Absolutely! (from Wikipedia)

Water intoxication (also known as hyperhydration or water poisoning) is a potentially fatal disturbance in brain function that results when the normal balance of electrolytes in the body is pushed outside of safe limits by a very rapid intake of water.[1] Normal, healthy individuals have little to worry about accidentally overconsuming water. Nearly all deaths related to water intoxication in normal individuals have resulted either from water drinking contests, in which individuals attempt to consume several gallons over the course of just a few minutes, or long bouts of intensive exercise during which time electrolytes are not properly replenished, yet massive amounts of fluid are still consumed.

A case a few years ago involved a couple who adopted a little girl. She was rebellious so they tied her up and forced her to drink water, she died. Nothing is totally safe. Sure O2 bubbles out but only after the singlet oxygen is releases from the H2O2. What if that unpaired oxygen molecule attaches to something other than another singlet oxygen? They do not have the ability to target a certain atom or molecule. Whatever they come into contact with first that satisfies their needs will get oxidized, usually resulting in a free radical cascade in which the molecule that had its electron stolen steals an electron from a neighboring molecule until an antioxidant is encountered. Yes cells and organisms have defenses against free radicals but defenses can be overwhelmed.

You seem to love article so here are a few.

Department of Human Anatomy and Cell Science, University of Manitoba Faculty of Medicine, 730 William Avenue, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3E 0W3.

The formation of Abeta and its subsequent deposition in senile plaques are considered to be initial events that lead to a cascade of pathological changes in AD. Mediators of Abeta-induced oxidative stress are known to cause oxidative damage to macromolecules. However, the molecular mechanisms by which Abeta-induced oxidative stress leads to neuronal cell death are not fully understood. Here we show that Abeta-induced oxidative stress activates the pro-death gene BNIP3. Abeta treatment results in mitochondrial dysfunction, accumulation of reactive oxygen species, and subsequent expression of BNIP3 in rat primary cortical neurons. Pretreatment with antioxidants abolished Abeta-induced BNIP3 expression and attenuated cell death, demonstrating the role of oxidative stress in BNIP3 induction. Abeta-induced BNIP3 expression may be mediated by hypoxia-inducible factor-1 (HIF-1) because Abeta-treatment induced accumulation and nuclear translocation of HIF-1 and knock-down of HIF-1 by RNAi inhibited BNIP3 expression. Finally, knockdown of BNIP3 reduced Abeta-induced neuronal death. Together, these results suggest a potential pathological role of BNIP3 in the etiology of AD.

PMID: 17274962 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Here Abeta is the oxidative agent but is shows that too many free radicals can cause death in healthy necessary cell, not just diseased ones. Heres another one that shows free radicals are harmful and can cause disease.

From a Pub Med search

Antioxidants in health and disease
I Young and J Woodside
Department of Clinical Biochemistry, Institute of Clinical Science, Belfast, Northern Ireland, UK. Email: [email protected]
This article has been cited by other articles in PMC.
Abstract

Free radical production occurs continuously in all cells as part of normal cellular function. However, excess free radical production originating from endogenous or exogenous sources might play a role in many diseases. Antioxidants prevent free radical induced tissue damage by preventing the formation of radicals, scavenging them, or by promoting their decomposition. This article reviews the basic chemistry of free radical formation in the body, the consequences of free radical induced tissue damage, and the function of antioxidant defence systems, with particular reference to the development of atherosclerosis.

Copied from Wikipedia

Recently, alternative medical practitioners have advocated administering doses of hydrogen peroxide intravenously in extremely low (less than one percent) concentrations for hydrogen peroxide therapy — a controversial alternative medical treatment for cancer. However, according to the American Cancer Society, "there is no scientific evidence that hydrogen peroxide is a safe, effective or useful cancer treatment." They advise cancer patients to "remain in the care of qualified doctors who use proven methods of treatment and approved clinical trials of promising new treatments." [6] Another controversial alternative medical treatment is inhaling hydrogen peroxide of a concentration around 1%. Internal use of hydrogen peroxide has a history of causing fatal blood disorders, and its recent use as a therapeutic treatment has been linked to several deaths.[7][8]

Apperently H2O2 is not totally safe. I am sure you will say that it was due to something other than the H2O2; twist away Oxyblast.

Oxygen toxicity
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Oxygen poisoning)

Oxygen toxicity or oxygen toxicity syndrome (also known as the "Paul Bert effect") is severe hyperoxia caused by breathing oxygen at elevated partial pressures. The high concentration of oxygen damages cells. The precise mechanism(s) of the damage are not known, but oxygen gas has a propensity to react with certain metals to form superoxide which may attack double bonds in many organic systems, including the unsaturated fatty acid residues in cells. High concentrations of oxygen are known to increase the formation of cascades of such free-radicals in biological systems, at which in many then go on to directly harm DNA and other structures (see nitric oxide, peroxynitrite, and trioxidane). Normally, the body has many defense systems against such damage (see glutathione, catalase, and superoxide dismutase) but at higher concentrations of free oxygen, these systems are eventually overwhelmed with time, and the rate of damage to cell membranes exceeds the capacity of systems which control or repair it. Cell damage and cell death then results.

So yes you can have too much oxygen.

You know we could go on like this for a long time. I did not say your system for treating water did not work. I have told you again and again what my main complaint is, but you just dig up more far lying evidence (sea urchins this time :lol: ) and try to twist the evidence. H2O2 produces several free radicals or free radical producing entities. Singlet oxygen is very reactive and causes other free radicals to be formed. A different breakdown produces hydroxyl ions (OH-) which are very reactive also. I know they play roles in some chemical pathways but they can also damage other molecules. I dont know how your system works, it might be beneficial. I still have a problem with your proclamations of H2O2 as totally safe and as a cure all, your education techniques and use of teminology, and your assumptions drawn from obscure and or irrelevant research. I still believe that you would be better served by dropping all of this propaganda and just stating the hard facts. Sometimes the best and smartest thing someone can say is "I dont know". Tell them about the true benefits. Tell them about the actual statistics from your customers (% increase in fertility, ww, etc, actual decrease % or $ in health related costs,etc) rather than just stories of the farmers.

We have got to be boring the other people on this site out of their minds; sorry guys and gals 8) . I believe I have told you all that I can but I am sure you will pick it apart. I told you that I am not raling against your product rather your presentation and representation of the underlying mechanisms but I doubt that you are hearing this. I told you that all I want to see you do for the benefit of your customers and , I believe yourself, is to present everyone with the known facts (not stories, assumptions, or best fit scenarios) but I doubt that you will be willing or able to change due to the pre-existing ideas and long held beliefs. I am trying to set what you are saying straight and while you cannot exit the roles of the politician and salesman and look objectively at this and what I am trying to get across to you.

 

[phillse]

This has gone on for way too long, and I have followed it for quite some time and held my tongue. On this post I have seen flawed reasoning and as an Ag. teacher I must point it out. So here goes. I do know that many holistic things work, for example omega fatty acids help with heart problems, joint pain, and brain health, because omega fatty acids are nore liquid than other fatty acids and thus do not make cells rigid and clogged in layman terms.

Oxy Blast you said

PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- Brown University researchers have discovered an enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide in the fertilized eggs of sea urchins. This infection-fighting free radical helps create a barrier around the egg, keeping out invading sperm, harmful bacteria and other destructive forces.

"

Also Oxy Blast Plus is hydrogen peroxide eloptically enhanced by "subtle energies" of natural ingredients. This gives Oxy Blast Plus over 10 times more vitality than plain hydrogen peroxide. These "subtle energies" are inducted by a proprietary process using "Concise Scalar Interferometry" (C.S.I.). With over 70 different herbs, vitamins and minerals. That is what sets our product apart from the others.

Now here is the definition of a free radical

A chemically active atom or molecular fragment containing a chemical charge due to an excess or deficient number of electrons. Radicals seek to receive or release electrons in order to achieve a more stable configuration, a process that can damage the large molecules within cells.

Problems with the reasoning behind the statments, and possible reasons for positive benifits

By definition a free radical is not a selective attack mechanism. Last time I checked in Chemistry, a chemically active atom will bond with the nearest to anything it can to acceive stability which does not limit itself only to attacking pathogens.


1. H2O2 cleans the H20 of bacteria, fungi, etc.
Most likely true. Since the singlet O molecue attaches and or oxidizes these organisms. The H2O2 then quickly reverts to stable molecules.

2. A little posion can be benificial. Small doses of posion can be benificial. Due to the fact that they created an immune response to get rid of the toxin, granted the dose is low and continued constant exposure does not occur. Much like vacinations create an immune response.

3. The posiitve benifits of ingesting is not actually the benifits of H2O2, but rather benifits from the herbs, vitamins and minerals. Basically you are atrributting the benifits ot the wrong thing.

Much like many speciallized lawn treatments that amazingly enhance the turf health and quality, (special spray applications) which cost an arm and a leg to buy and apply. When analyzed they also contained Macro and Micro plant nutrients, and most especially contained fairly large amounts on Nitrogen. When they were compared to applications of the same Macro and Mirco plant nutrients at the same levels, the results were the same. (I saw this quite often while working on my MS in Turfgrass Management @Auburn)



I am not an expert on Animal Health and am still learning. We all are the day we stop learning is the day we die. However, I have read my share of Journals and Published data. Just because it gets published does not mean it is valid. One must ask the question, what journal published it. What statistical method was used to evaluate the test results. What was the p-valuef or the statistics if the p-value is less than 0.05 then you proved something if the p-value was 0.10 to 0.051 you proved a correlation but not a fact. Under what conditions was the test done, and how was the study set up. The Enivironment plays a huge factor.

The Bottom Line
Yes, There are many variables in animal health and some of the holistic practices have validity.

However, if you have a good clean water source free of harmful contaminates chemical and organic, you have a good nutrition program with proper mineral, and vitamin supplementation, you will have a very healthy herd. The case against vacination is stupid however, because you can not effectively keep livestock from coming in contact with diseases such as vibrio, lepto, brucelosis (in some cases) due to contact with wildlife. You can sometimes eliminate contact with outside livestock but not always.

Follow good herdsmanship practices and you will have a healthy herd most of the time; but remember things sometimes just happen no matter what you do.

Sorry for the long post. Now lets put this topic where it belongs, to rest.

 

[SCRUBS620]

I do know that many holistic things work, for example omega fatty acids help with heart problems, joint pain, and brain health, because omega fatty acids are nore liquid than other fatty acids and thus do not make cells rigid and clogged in layman terms.

I agree, as I have said I dont discount the approaches but the vendors of these methods.

Now here is the definition of a free radical

A chemically active atom or molecular fragment containing a chemical charge due to an excess or deficient number of electrons. Radicals seek to receive or release electrons in order to achieve a more stable configuration, a process that can damage the large molecules within cells.

Ditto except they do not have to have a chemical charge. Definition from Wikipedia "In chemistry, radicals (often referred to as free radicals) are atomic or molecular species with unpaired electrons on an otherwise open shell configuration. These unpaired electrons are usually highly reactive, so radicals are likely to take part in chemical reactions. "

By definition a free radical is not a selective attack mechanism. Last time I checked in Chemistry, a chemically active atom will bond with the nearest to anything it can to acceive stability which does not limit itself only to attacking pathogens.

Thank you

1. H2O2 cleans the H20 of bacteria, fungi, etc.
Most likely true. Since the singlet O molecue attaches and or oxidizes these organisms. The H2O2 then quickly reverts to stable molecules.

I agree, in water H2O2 would most likely be beneficial. Taking it internally is a different story. How do you know what molecule the Singlet O would come into contact with first?

2. A little posion can be benificial. Small doses of posion can be benificial. Due to the fact that they created an immune response to get rid of the toxin, granted the dose is low and continued constant exposure does not occur. Much like vacinations create an immune response.

I am not sure where you are going with this one but I dont necessarily disagree. Are you talking about H2O2 and/or the free radicals as the toxins?

Just because it gets published does not mean it is valid. One must ask the question, what journal published it. What statistical method was used to evaluate the test results. What was the p-valuef or the statistics if the p-value is less than 0.05 then you proved something if the p-value was 0.10 to 0.051 you proved a correlation but not a fact. Under what conditions was the test done, and how was the study set up. The Enivironment plays a huge factor.

I agree. Peer reviewed statistical data is what sets the standard. Most holistic vendors I have seen dismiss any negative articles and over emphasize and draw too many conclusions from the least bit of positive data (as we have seen in these postings).

Sorry for the long post. Now lets put this topic where it belongs, to rest.

I agree totally, thank you, Amen and Hallelujah. RIP. I thought they might have shut this post down by now. Oxyblast, lets call a truce. You were a formidable competitor and I did enjoy the discussion, just too lengthy and complicated for this format. We might not agree but hopefully we can learn from each other.

 

[tom4018]

Just wondering why some of these uses are suggested when the bottle states for external use only. If ingested contact poison control center.