Humpty dumpty

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tapeworm

tapeworm

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On the beginners about the most popular breeds I tried telling you guys that calves in the north are better than in the south...some of you jsut wanted to call me names and deny the truth. I know SOME of you have good cattle...some of you work really hard at it. And YES you have made a lot of improvement in health...gentics...uniformity over 10 years ago. But Im talking about the calves in general are still better in the north {Nebraska...Wyoming Montana ect] than in the south...Alabama...missisippi ect. Nobody denies that except some of you in the south. Its really something you need to know so you can make changes. Did you know that 88% of feedlot managers say that your cattle are WORSE or MUCH WORSE than northern calves?? Did you know that?? 88%!!!!! WORSE or MUCH WORSE!!! Even tho youve made headways in the last few years you still need to do more. Not just me...88% of feedlot managers!!! That should bother you!!!

Cattle feeders and packers need cattle that are uniform and consisitant. Why?? Because they need to be PREDICTABLE!! Cant have predictability without consistancy. Loads of sale barn calves from the south arent any of that most of the time. But it doesnt have to stay that way...join a feeder calf alliance...get with your neighbors using single sire sets of bulls ...check out a precon feeder calf sale....jsut do something!! Right now even the ones of you that have good calves dont really get paid for em because they just have to go right in with everbody elses. Consistant and uniform is where PROFIT is at because of PREDICTABILITY


I put this on the breeds page because some of your trouble is genetics. Did you know that feedlot mangers said the reason cattle killed in Nebraska and colorado {mostly northern origin} are better than those killed in Texas and Kansas {mostly your southern calves} is 85% genetic?? Did you know that?? 85% of quality problems with YOUR fed cattle are genetic!!!!



Did you know that 94% of feedlots want less than quarter eared cattle?? What does that do for your Brangus calves out of eared cows?? What about your beefmasters?? 94% really dont want em. And 19% of em want NO brahma at all...NONE...thats 1 out of 5. Imagine if youve got 5 buyers sitting at your auction...your slick haired 3/8 eared calves comes in and AT LEAST 1 of those buyers just gets up and leaves...and the other 4 dont really want those calves...thats the affect it has on your prices!!
Listen guys...Im not making this stuff up...this comes from the same people that end up with your cattle...a survey of 135 feedlots that get your calves when they get big enough. Big feedlots...up to 100,000hd...not all yankees either LOL...lot of Texas yards


Doctor Harris...Frankie...Ollie....mntman...Brandon and some of the rest of em with better education can analyse this better than me but its not that hard to get some of it...if I can understand it I know most of the rest of you can

http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu/beef/pd ... ity_JS.pdf

You know theres nothing in it for me if you guys improve your calves...just the opposite....your sorrycattle make mine bring a premum. And I can make money off your mismanged stocker calves sometimes when I have extra grass...your loss is my gain. Read this and learn something....or else keep on hauling Humpty dumpty to town...haul him in bawling for momma...horns..balls and all. Im just trying to help you function like a busines and make more money...not trying to offend
 
I think you are trying to offend. Thats Ok. I bet you look just like your avarter. No offence. The saddest thing is I beleive some of what is in your article and am improving with those "northern" genetics.


Scotty
 
One other thing sadder is for every article to support your post there is probly one that opposes it.


Scotty
 
Tape. I would like to see this weeks average prices up in your neck of the woods of 5-600lb feeder steers and heifers so I can see just how terrible were doing.

thanks.
 
Sorry guys. I am with Tapeworm on this. It is true in my opinion as well. Southern and Eastern cattle aren't as uniform and I hate to say it but generally speaking the cattle aren't as good. I am strictly talking about commercial cattle. Purebred cattle is a different story. There are purebred herds in the south that are as good as or better than any purebred herds in the north. My reasoning for this is the south naturally puts tougher demands physically because of poorer quality forage and heat. Northern cattle will usually have better feet and be more cold tolerant. There is a whole lot of cattle coming from the south and east off 20 acre farms where they use cattle as mowers and bulls are only used to freshen a cow. They could care less about quality.
 
Tape, I think you want to stir the pot, just a bit. But the truth is the truth. IMHO north,south,east or west number one problem in my eyes. IS breding to poor bulls because the bull is cheap. is no reason to bred him.
Get the best bulls that you can, and bred them to good cows, and put wheels on the others.
Also like you said if the buyers don't want what you have you need to change your herd. I run Black and Red Angus plus getting into the "pluses" < which is run by the red angus assoc>
Reason the market likes Angus so I give the market Angus. now if the market moves to hairy yak x Beefmaster....... i will raise them.

A honest man is a Honest man, even if yall don't like what he is saying :cboy:
 
Nothing wrong with stirring the pot, but when it comes to providing feedlots with what they want, it becomes a problem for southern cattlemen/women. I'm talking about extreme south gulf coast. We have no choice but to have some brahman bloood, with our climate.

Some of the straight "no ear" breeds just can't cut it as good as a cross with a percentage of brahman. I personally like to keep the percentage as small as possible by carefully choosing which bulls to breed.

It's no secret that even in our deep south cattle stockyards, calves with ear do get docked to a degree. But if they have slight ear and appear to have a majority of angus, they bring premium price. Just a few months ago I sold 5 bull calves. AS guessed, the less the ear, the more they brought. One that was basically an angus plus brought 1.50/lb. BUT, he was the smallest. The calves with more ear were larger, and when considering the overall dollar value, the eared calves brought more total than the non eared. (All the same age, but the eared calves were bigger)

But to stir the pot some more, I'm a small time operation (less than 100 head), that won't grow too much bigger until I retire. It's economics. Down south we don't have the harsh winters, we don't have to feed hay six months of the year, and it's a lot different. I would imagine that the cost per head upkeep is substantially lower than our northern counterparts; (I have no proof of this) If I raise cattle with a percentage of brahman, and a majority of angus, I probably come out better in the long run. Again, no solid proof of this, but I do know that straight British breeds do not perform as good in our heat and humidity. So does it matter to me that the feedlots want no brahman? Nope. I will keep producing cattle that make the most economic sense for my climate, period. Now, if eared cattle got docked 50%, then the economics of this scenario would change.

I love to look at a field full of straight herefords or angus as much as the next guy, but beefmasters, brangus, and other crosses put more money in the southern cattlemen/women's pocket. I kind of like that folding money (as C.C. said)
 
Tape,
What got me so riled was that you said if you want good cattle that you have to get out of the South. That's a blanket statement covering a whole region. Tape, I agree, to a point. We have some small framed cattle here in the South and some calves wean at 350 lbs. But we also have quality calves coming out of the South. Concerning eared cattle.....they were developed for the southern US, as you know, to deal with heat, humidity, and insects. Too much ear brings lower prices, true, but these are the cattle that are adapted to our area. One full-time cattleman in our county (retired) ran Charolais and Simmental bulls on F1 Braford cows and topped the market. The cows raised heavy calves and the bulls knocked the ear off of them. I feel there is a need for Brahman influence in the South and I agree with you, that there is a need for improved quality. But, there are cattleman all across the region who are serious about their business and treat it as a true business.
 
J. T.":uuocvjd3 said:
Tape,
What got me so riled was that you said if you want good cattle that you have to get out of the South. That's a blanket statement covering a whole region. Tape, I agree, to a point. We have some small framed cattle here in the South and some calves wean at 350 lbs. But we also have quality calves coming out of the South. Concerning eared cattle.....they were developed for the southern US, as you know, to deal with heat, humidity, and insects. Too much ear brings lower prices, true, but these are the cattle that are adapted to our area. One full-time cattleman in our county (retired) ran Charolais and Simmental bulls on F1 Braford cows and topped the market. The cows raised heavy calves and the bulls knocked the ear off of them. I feel there is a need for Brahman influence in the South and I agree with you, that there is a need for improved quality. But, there are cattleman all across the region who are serious about their business and treat it as a true business.
Click to expand...

Well said J.T. if one breed fit all the only person left on the board would be Frankie screaming about CAB argueing with herself.
 
IMG0260.jpg



Tape I see alot of cattle like this down south . Do you like her ?
 
tapeworm":8d5ueiz3 said:
On the beginners about the most popular breeds I tried telling you guys that calves in the north are better than in the south...some of you jsut wanted to call me names and deny the truth. I know SOME of you have good cattle...some of you work really hard at it. And YES you have made a lot of improvement in health...gentics...uniformity over 10 years ago. But Im talking about the calves in general are still better in the north {Nebraska...Wyoming Montana ect] than in the south...Alabama...missisippi ect. Nobody denies that except some of you in the south. Its really something you need to know so you can make changes. Did you know that 88% of feedlot managers say that your cattle are WORSE or MUCH WORSE than northern calves?? Did you know that?? 88%!!!!! WORSE or MUCH WORSE!!! Even tho youve made headways in the last few years you still need to do more. Not just me...88% of feedlot managers!!! That should bother you!!!

Cattle feeders and packers need cattle that are uniform and consisitant. Why?? Because they need to be PREDICTABLE!! Cant have predictability without consistancy. Loads of sale barn calves from the south arent any of that most of the time. But it doesnt have to stay that way...join a feeder calf alliance...get with your neighbors using single sire sets of bulls ...check out a precon feeder calf sale....jsut do something!! Right now even the ones of you that have good calves dont really get paid for em because they just have to go right in with everbody elses. Consistant and uniform is where PROFIT is at because of PREDICTABILITY


I put this on the breeds page because some of your trouble is genetics. Did you know that feedlot mangers said the reason cattle killed in Nebraska and colorado {mostly northern origin} are better than those killed in Texas and Kansas {mostly your southern calves} is 85% genetic?? Did you know that?? 85% of quality problems with YOUR fed cattle are genetic!!!!



Did you know that 94% of feedlots want less than quarter eared cattle?? What does that do for your Brangus calves out of eared cows?? What about your beefmasters?? 94% really dont want em. And 19% of em want NO brahma at all...NONE...thats 1 out of 5. Imagine if youve got 5 buyers sitting at your auction...your slick haired 3/8 eared calves comes in and AT LEAST 1 of those buyers just gets up and leaves...and the other 4 dont really want those calves...thats the affect it has on your prices!!
Listen guys...Im not making this stuff up...this comes from the same people that end up with your cattle...a survey of 135 feedlots that get your calves when they get big enough. Big feedlots...up to 100,000hd...not all yankees either LOL...lot of Texas yards


Doctor Harris...Frankie...Ollie....mntman...Brandon and some of the rest of em with better education can analyse this better than me but its not that hard to get some of it...if I can understand it I know most of the rest of you can

http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu/beef/pd ... ity_JS.pdf

You know theres nothing in it for me if you guys improve your calves...just the opposite....your sorrycattle make mine bring a premum. And I can make money off your mismanged stocker calves sometimes when I have extra grass...your loss is my gain. Read this and learn something....or else keep on hauling Humpty dumpty to town...haul him in bawling for momma...horns..balls and all. Im just trying to help you function like a busines and make more money...not trying to offend
Click to expand...

You're not going to get me into this argument. I think it's rude of you to disparage an entire region of the country, especially when you don't have the courage to even say where you, on your superior horse, are setting.

There are some sorry cattle in the SE and there are some good cattle in the SE. I'll bet there's some of both in your area, too. I doubt 88% of the feedlot operators say they don't want southern cattle. They are more than willing to buy them. A lot of money is made on southern cattle every year.

You can take the same cattle out of SE FL and run them in Iowa and they will perform better than in FL. That's the effect of climate, not genetics.

I have to agree with the others, your avatar speaks for itself.
 
So if they don't want them, how are they going to fill their yard? I know there are alot of cattle up "norht" but not near as many down "south."


Scotty
 
O.k. so Tape has suceeded in offending many southerners. I for one am not offended. Maybe he is trying to in some way help improve cattle overall in the country. No there is no punch line here; maybe he's got some valid arguments.

I'm not one to put my head in the sand, so if there is something that I can learn from even someone with a horse *** as an avatar, that's o.k. by me.

What's wrong with being proud about something if it's better than the rest? Everyone knows the SEC has the best football in the country. I would much rather say that I'm an LSU fan of a team with one loss, than a fan of ____ that only plays creampuffs and has maybe one or two tough games a year.
 
now I"m not going to side with either side here, or at least try not to.

In our experiences cattle we've bought from the south have been less uniform and not sold nearly as well because of that and because of the apparent ear in a portion of them.

Cattle we've gotten from Northern Nebraska have come more uniformed out of the same type of sale barns. The ranchers of the region use more similiar bulls of similar breeding because of the environmental settings.

In the south you go 100 miles and you've got changes in environment that are unbelievable so it's harder to set up a large group of cattle from different owners in that type of area. One person will be using high % eared cattle the next is using Bos Taurus bulls on 3/8 Brahman cows. There are ASTRONOMICAL differences in those calves. When in the north one guy is using english cows X continental bulls, the next is using the same or a similar combo, these calves are MOST LIKELY going to be quite similar.

That's why there are the prejudices and why feeders are saying they'd rather have northern cattle.
 
Well said Jake

You managed to walk on that razor line and not offend anyone, I think. You're right about the huge differences in climate. 150 miles north of me, they get snow (we don't- or very rarely), we get mucho rain (but my ryegrass is need) because of the moist air from the gulf, they get it from fronts. Big country we have here. I can put 2 cows per acre, and the bermuda will get thicker, in some areas people can't put 20 cows per acre.

To me it's all about the money. If we (southerners) saw the big payday for having an extremely uniform calf crop, then we could make it happen. Until then, each region will use what's best for them. Doesn't mean that they are not good, just what's best for them.
 
I have no problem with his comments, its his opinion. Having said that here are a few rules we follow on my place.
1. When that calf hits 400 pounds its gonna grow wheels
2. Its gonna still have its nuts.
3. It will have had no shots.
4. It will have had the very best mineral available free choice.
5. It will have been wormed once.
These calves will top my market, not yours in other parts of the country. These calves will be out of F-1 cattle that have a touch of ear. Very few of these calves will show any ear at all. They will and have done well in all parts of the country. What data I have recieved on some of them they have done well on carcaess quality, and we have had only yeild grades 1 and 2's and no 3 or.4's Im my part of the country it is foolish to try and raise larger calves and put more imputs into them.... If the buyer was willing to pay for it, so be, I would. If I take your straightbred english or exotic cows and put them in the same program they will crash and burn.....Been there and got that T-shirt, not going back.
 
Hey Cutter,

We follow almost the same regiment as you but two questions:

why cut em loose at 400 lbs? I'm guessing that your climate is similar to mine. Does it cost you too much to keep em longer for the return you'd get for the larger calf?

why not castrate the bull calves? Although the testosterone isn't really pumping in a 400 lb. bull calf, doesn't he suffer some growth at the expense of said balls?

Not questioning your methods, just wanting to understand em.
 
CypressFrams your idea about the climates being simikar is right on the money, I would guess. To cut em I got to work em. Usually I take about 4 cents a head less on em. Which comes out to about $16 a head. Of course when we start to hit the bottom of the cattle cycle, I usually have to cut em. As for the 400 pounds its usually several reasons reasons.
1. After 400 pounds a calf will start to pull on its mother body score.
2. Usually in my area their are buyers looking for calves to go on pasture about the time I sell.
3. My grass quality is starting to fall at that time, so cows can get through late summer without losing any weight, and be ready to take advantage of the fall growth season on the grass. Also they go into winter with a good body score.
4. I can go fishing.....lol... without worring about when to pull the trigger on selling em
 

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