How's all that alternative energy stuff work'n out for 'ya?

[Kathie in Thorp]

Am pretty sure the wind towers shown in these pics are in our back yard. Doesn't look like it's too cost effective . . . . This article is in the last couple of days.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/07/wind-power-companies-paid-to-not-produce/

 

[plumber_greg]

We got about 150 of them around here. Their's only about half turning on most days. The only thing it did for us was to make our elec bills go up by abaout 50 percent. Our coop had to build lines, substations etc. just to buy the power. A coop doesn't have to go through the channels to raise rates that privatley owned companies do, they just do it.
Florida Electric was gonna' put 300 more up assuming that the coop would buy the power. Got the easments, put out the bids, then the coop said they weren't gonna' buy it cuz' of the flack they have already gotten. Project is dead. Windmills won't pay without our tax dollars propping them up.
Don't really understand the millls not turning. Know guys that maintain them and their boss gets bonus for elec produced. I would want them turning all the time. My question is when the tax incentives go off, they can't make them pay on their own, if they shut them down, who gets to remove them. The blades have already fallen off the 150 footers, and they had to replace them with 75's.
I'm glad I don't have any on my farm, doubt I would want them. gs

 

[1wlimo]

Well I think that Wind, solar etc are all a god idea, but as soon as you have any government putting cash in then costs go up.

If they can be used to get us away from using oil, then may be gas prices will stay at a semi sensible level.

The industrial revolution was started on wind and water power.

 

[plumber_greg]

They produce about all the elec that is not produced by dams etc. using coal. The problem with the windmills is that they can't sell the power for what it takes to produce it. gs

 

[highgrit]

Natural gas is the most sensible solution. But it's to easy and does't cost enough produce.

 

[Douglas]

They produce about all the elec that is not produced by dams etc. using coal. The problem with the windmills is that they can't sell the power for what it takes to produce it. gs

That's what i find so interesting about the renewables argument, that it is reducing our dependence on oil, yet we use pratically no oil to produce electricity. Our energy policy in the US is to use renewables that don't work, waste money, but get politicians votes from idiots. Yet my company makes money in the solar power industry.

 

[cross_7]

They produce about all the elec that is not produced by dams etc. using coal. The problem with the windmills is that they can't sell the power for what it takes to produce it. gs

what does it cost to produce ?
seems like it would be nothing since the wind is free ?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I can't wait for the first fully battery powered John Deere how 'bout you guys?

 

[JSCATTLE]

It's all a scam . I read an article the other day about the Chevy volt . It's a hybrid car that gets about 25 miles to a charge and switches to a gas motor . It takes 12 hours to charge and cost about 3 bucks a charge depending on your electric rate . It cost 10 k more than a Honda civic it's about the same size and it's gas motor gets about the same mileage as the civic . The batteries are junk in about 10 years . Of normal driving 12k miles a year according to the gov. The car is hard to dispose of with out hurting the environment . And on top of all that the Obama admin. wants to raise fuel tax for the rest of us because with decreased demand of fuel they have less money to build high ways . .

 

[ohiosteve]

Natural gas is the most sensible solution. But it's to easy and does't cost enough produce.

I totally agree highgrit, and believe it is coming. There are companies spending billions on aquiring leases in the Northeast and drilling will begin this summer. The only thing that may stop it is the environmentalists if they put an end to hydraulic fracturing of the wells like they are trying to do. In my mind natural gas and oil are environmentally friendly, after all its just decomposed sea life from millions of years ago. The pipline infrastructure is already largely in place and the technology is there for natural gas powered vehicles. Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[ChrisB]

I will preface this by saying I know nothing about wind power. But I would be leary of reading an article in a political section of a news site and putting any stock into what is said. Not saying the article is factual or not, I don't know. But I can think of several instances where false information is given and that information is reproduced in other articles so much that it is automatically assumed to be accurate.

 

[1wlimo]

I can't wait for the first fully battery powered John Deere how 'bout you guys?

I do not think we will see field going tractors for a very long time if ever just with a battery. Tractors use a lot of power,

There are electric buses and trucks that are working.

An electric fork-lift will kick the butt of a diesel or gas version.

 

[highgrit]

You are not being very truthfull 1wlimo. A gas, or diesel forklift will work 24-7-365 with very little down time. Electric needs charging every day and most can't make it through a 8 hour shift without having to charge it up.

 

[1wlimo]

You are not being very truthfull 1wlimo. A gas, or diesel forklift will work 24-7-365 with very little down time. Electric needs charging every day and most can't make it through a 8 hour shift without having to charge it up.

It does not take long to swap out the battery to go 24-7, lots will do 8 to 10 hrs now.
Many operations now top up charge in low times, run extra trucks ect.

They are faster and smoother too, and can actually have less down time as they get hours onto them.

Propane trucks can the real pits they tend to die just as you are busy or the wrong side to the yard to a new tank.

 

[JSCATTLE]

Chris if you are referring to what I read it wasnt in the political section of any paper . Spoken like a true liberal though ...

 

[Douglas]

There is no question that alternative power sources have their place. My company provides solar termal generated electricity plants for remote locations without power. My solar calculator has been working for about 30 years now,solar powered cattle fences are all over, the military uses panels for remote communications and computers. Now the notion that renewables will provide a significant part of our energy needs without massive government subsidies is a pipe dream. IMO

 

[wbvs58]

Are you guys putting solar panels on your houses to feed back into the grid? In Australia every second house now has a sytem feeding back to the grid (government subsidies).
I have a small stand alone solar system running my house, 1.5Kw. I am not connected to the grid. On a good day I have my batteries charged by midday and the rest of the day is basically wasted. Storing and retrieving power from a bank of batteries is not efficient, yet this system easily runs my household including pumps. Households with similar size solar systems feeding back to the grid only seem to get half to a third off their power bills and yet they are paid more for the power they sell back than what they buy. Maybe they are a lot more wastefull than me, but to me it doesn't add up.
Ken

 

[Commercialfarmer]

They produce about all the elec that is not produced by dams etc. using coal. The problem with the windmills is that they can't sell the power for what it takes to produce it. gs

what does it cost to produce ?
seems like it would be nothing since the wind is free ?

Seen figures of up to $3,570,000 for each windmill, they are 30 stories tall with some serious amounts of concrete in the bases. Besides the cost of putting in power lines that will transport the power, plus payment to land owners.

If you search around, you can find that Germany also paid to shut down their wind turbines because there was too much variation, somehow it didn't make many front pages.

No one is saying that alternative energy can't be created, but at what cost and efficiency is the question. Why pay twice or three times as much for energy that other countries have to. When alternative energy will be valuable, is when the cost is competitive. That means from production of all components, installation, storage of energy, and maintenance.

There is nothing inherently wrong with using fossil fuels until then (carbon crap is bs and has been shown to be so). We know we have enough petroleum to last hundreds and hundreds of years. This game of creating a crisis is old. No one predicted the innovations of today a 100 years ago. And it isn't going to stop all of a sudden now.

 

[1wlimo]

OK so a coal fired power station is good, they take days to get up to speed or to shut down, so at times waste their energy, hence the cheaper rates at night so they are trying to avoid to much of this.

A power source from, wind, solar, bio-reactor etc in local communities reduces to losses in transmittance of power to that communitie by 10%

As fuel prices increase alternative energy generation becomes more competitive, and then cheaper.

Natural Gas powered stations are very good. They are relatively clean burning compared to many coal fired stations, and can be fired up, and shut down relatively quickly. However when they built these in the Uk they managed to burn though the North sea reserves in only a few years and now the UK imports vast quantities of fuel. Now the UK and the rest of Europe need Russian natural gas.

Is it not better to have a mix of power generation, to spend money making sure that wind, solar etc get better and not to have to buy power from Other counties?

I would have thought that anti government intervention as many of you are you would have supported the production of power on your door step so that you were less reliant on government keeping your lights and TV on for you.

Many coal, natural gas, and of course Nuclear power stations also receive government incentives to be built or decommissioned, or both.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Natural gas is the most sensible solution. But it's to easy and does't cost enough produce.

Regulations beyond reality are going to make us shut down all gas units. Not even the most efficient combined cycle units are acceptable. Natural gas is cheap and getting cheaper. Consumers cannot take advantage with this administration.

Our nukes are good but doc kavorkian of nukes was appointed head of the NRC by this administration