How to grow herd?

[HOSS]

I need advice from those who have been there and done that so to speak. I am in the process of aquiring some new land. If the deal goes through it will add another 60 acres to my currently small (less than 20 head) operation. I will not be financing this place, I will be paying cash. It is an old farmstead that is grown up with weeds but has a good base of fescue, clover and orchard grass that will really take off once it is ran over with a brush hog. It has two ponds and a year-round spring. One pond is about 2 acres in size. It is currently fenced on two sides with new 5 strand barb wire. Would it be better to begin by fencing smaller portions, say 15 acre lots, and grow slowly and fence as I grow? That way when at full capacity all of the cross fencing will be complete. There are no barns on the property and about 7 or 8 acres are wooded. Would I be better served to buy a few mature cows and start that way or should I start on the younger end with heifers or is a mix the best option. My father is retired and lives about 2 miles from the place so having someone to watch out for calving and such is not a problem. Within a year of purchase I plan to buil and live on the property myself. I currently have a corrall/ headgate set up on my smaller place and plan to do the same on the new place. What I do not want to do is get in over my head too soon. I have a "regular" job and I travel overseas allot and I do not want to create too much work for Pops as he has earned his retirement. All advice is welcome.

Thanks

 

[backhoeboogie]

For a small operation I would definately cross fence it into sections. This allows rotation which aids in worm control etc. If you have working pens, that will aid in caring for them and take up less time.

Start small and don't get caught up in alot of burden since you are looking at building a home etc. Cattle can take up a great deal of your time as you probably already know. Sounds like the place needs a little work already as you mentioned. Once you get everything workable, you have more time for more head.

Finally, congratulations on your buy. The place sounds nice.

 

[dun]

I would fence the perimeter and do the cross fencing with temp hotwire. As you get a better feel for what is available forage wise in each section you can change them and put them in permanent hot wire.

dun

 

[TheLazyM]

i'm with dun i would'nt start putting in perment cross fences untell i know where the best places for them are. i dont see where you could go wrong in buy bred cows or bred back cows w/ calves. if your cows are in good shape and drop good calves you know what your working with and can sell the 1st crop of calves off and buy a bull and some more bred cows. lets say you started today 18 months or so you could have 3rd genaration calves being born. i also go along with starting small. no need in jumping in over your and your dads head. with time and care it'll grow. good luck.

 

[Susie David]

I agree with the temp cross fencing. I'd determine the carring capacity of the land, are you going to put up hay for the winter or feed bought hay. Retain the heifers that are worthy, sell or grow the steers and determine if AI is right for your operation or a bull is necessary. Good facilities go along way towards making Dad's job easier.
DMc

 

[Mallen23]

I would suggest checking with the FSA office in your area. Often they have programs that help pay for a percentage of the cost associated with building cross fences.

 

[HOSS]

Susie David, will probably sell the heifers and raise a few steers for meat sales. Hay will be about a 50/50 split of our own vs. buy. We already have a good bull. Right now he is on limited cows so I can foresee him handling my current cows plus the cows that I will add.

Mallen, the FSA route seems too good to be true......is there a catch?

Any Tennessee cattle raisers ever used FSA funds to cross fence?

 

[Mallen23]

We went through the FSA during 2005 to help with resowing a pasture. We had to plant Max-Q fescue, provide a soil sample and fertilize and lime according to the soil sample. We did 36 acres and the FSA covered 60% or more of the cost. The % is based on their estimates for the cost of seed, lime, and fertilizer which is high compared to the actual cost. They paid the % of their estimate.

The programs change from year to year and possibly state to state. Also, each program usually has specific signup periods.

 

[jcarkie]

i'm with dun fence the perimeter then cross fence as you see how it goes. the way prices are now i would buy mature cows that will calve with yours,or with calves on the ground it would be cheaper. get enough to keep your bull busy. if you get to many you will have to add another bull too.

 

[cypressfarms]

Hoss,

If you want, pm me, and I can send you some info about the NRCS Equip program. Especially for new farmers, they will help with many things, including troughs, cross fencing, soil conditioning - liming etc., pest control, and even paying you to keep a minimum stubble height.

 

[poorboy]

Hoss, a few ways to go about it and I'm not sure which is the best. When we bought another place we went about it in a conservative way. We had 20 cows we were happy with. Also the fence on the new place was fixable around the perimeter but that is about it with a couple of run down barns and no handling facilities. The grass was at about 60% of what it could be.

We decided to retain our heifers and work on the grass. Taking in sections at a time while grazing the rest we were able to have the amount of grass we needed being added when we had the cows to handle it. When we had more grass than needed we baled the extra. Of course the first year the calves were almost all bulls

In time we were able to improve the facilities as needed and have the grass at about 85% of what I would like to see. Just now after 7 years of tweaking do we know where the permenant cross fences need to be. We had the numbers up to 50 to 55 about the time when the cattle prices went up. We had calves coming off and the older cows that needed culling. Life was good and it was beginng to pay off.

But after looking long and hard at the extra time we were putting into it and crunching a few numbers a more comfortable place to be at was somewhere between 40 and 50 head. For the amount of grass, weather differences and time spent this was optimum for us at this time. Especially with out over working the size eqipment we were set up for.

I loved doing this and seeing the changes take place. Also the planning and ups and downs was addictive. We don't owe on anything which has taken the pressure off but has built in some of its own challenges. Especially since this has had to pay for its self without much if any out of pocket spending except for the inital purchase. Check into to local programs and see whats available.

In retrospect buying older cows when we needed them and using their calves to help in heifer retention may have sped things up abit. Also we kept a few heifers we probably shouldn't have in the beginng. Cull hard. I hate to have to look at my mistakes. BTW its probably cheaper to buy cows than raise your own if you know what your getting. Feeding out our own cost us the same without being out the amount up front, but I just like watching them grow

Its also difficult at times to work with your family, especially your dad. So becareful to make sure the direction you want to go in is something he wants to buy into. Its aggravating at times but you'll find it wouldn't have been worth it by yourself No one else will understand your feelings like he will and you'll always have something to talk about.

On the other hand, take a bunch of money and turn your place into a show place, stock with the best and hire it done. Probably better off going that route and selling it for a profit :lol2: