How to give a sub Q shot

[ranchmom77]

i was helping my neighbors brand the other day and was giving the shots. Both were subQ and so I was tenting the skin on the neck and giving them there like usual.. Each shot in a different spot of course.
After 20 head or so, the neighbor gal comes up to me and says, "you know you can just shoot them straight into the neck without pinching the skin.. It's a subQ needle."
Huh?
I did it her way for the rest of the calves, who am I to argue with the boss? Lol
But just to clarify.. Even with a short subQ needle, you still need to pinch the skin correct? You don't just jab it straight into the neck, right?
Thanks!

 

[slick4591]

Never heard of a subQ needle, although my vet doesn't need to tent. I'm not that good tho.

 

[branguscowgirl]

There are shorter needles for SQ injections. But depending on the individual animals fat layer, you can still get it too shallow or too deep. By tenting the skin you can feel the void between the skin an muscle with the tip of your needle.

 

[chippie]

what the length and size of the needle? SubQ means under the skin and you should be able to see a bump from the meds.

 

[wbvs58]

Yes using the proper short needle on the vaccination gun you shouldn't need to tent the skin especially if you are coming down from the top at a shallow angle to the skin and try to aim for a groove like that just in front of the shoulder. Many places like feedlots get a bit nervous if you inject any place below the ears for fear of carcase damage.
Nothing says that you can't tent the skin to be sure though.
Ken

 

[branguscowgirl]

what the length and size of the needle? SubQ means under the skin and you should be able to see a bump from the meds.

Nope. Sub Q (Sub Cutaneous Fat) is the fat layer between the sub dermal layer and the muscle. You should not "see a bump under the skin" unless the med irritated the tissue, you exceeded the recommended amount per injection site, or you were too shallow and injected into the dermis.
In other words no fat, no Sub Q space. That is why location is important.

"Under the skin" (as you stated) is called sub dermal.
There are things that we inject sub dermal, such as TB tests. (And you will see a bubble under the skin.) But not vaccines or meds..

The idea is to inject into the fat layer that will be discarded during processing. Also, each area has it's own absorption rate for the drugs. Intramuscular absorption is much quicker than sub Q.
Though many drugs will damage muscle tissue.

 

[Gerard Dawn]

I've always left sub Q shots to my vet, he goes a good job at it and must importantly does it the right way.

 

[milkmaid]

45 degree angle to the neck with a 3/4" needle and you'll never have to tent the skin. Don't put your hands between the calf and the chute.

 

[John SD]

what the length and size of the needle? SubQ means under the skin and you should be able to see a bump from the meds.

I always used 16 ga needles. 1/2" for SQ injections. 3/4" for IM injections. All injections in the neck per BQA guidelines.

I don't like to see a bump from the meds. Usually means you are getting the meds "in" the skin instead of under the skin :idea:

 

[John SD]

what the length and size of the needle? SubQ means under the skin and you should be able to see a bump from the meds.

Nope. Sub Q (Sub Cutaneous Fat) is the fat layer between the sub dermal layer and the muscle. You should not "see a bump under the skin" unless the med irritated the tissue, you exceeded the recommended amount per injection site, or you were too shallow and injected into the dermis.
In other words no fat, no Sub Q space. That is why location is important.

"Under the skin" (as you stated) is called sub dermal.
There are things that we inject sub dermal, such as TB tests. (And you will see a bubble under the skin.) But not vaccines or meds..

The idea is to inject into the fat layer that will be discarded during processing. Also, each area has it's own absorption rate for the drugs. Intramuscular absorption is much quicker than sub Q.
Though many drugs will damage muscle tissue.

Alpha 7 oil based clostridial vaccines are not very "tissue friendly". I used to vaccinate newborn calves with Alpha 7 and admit I wasn't all that careful about proper technique with mama sometimes breathing down my neck Noticed some bumps at the injection site were still there in the fall.

IMO, Alpha 7 is THE best blackleg protection you can get. I would recommend Alpha 7 only if you don't brand or have other opportity within 2 month of birth for another vaccination. But when I started using Vision 7 (2cc dose) or other common 5cc dose vaccine at birth, branding, and fall shots I never encountered any clostridial problems or saw any more "bumps".

 

[Lucky_P]

not all subcutaneous tissue is 'fat' .
In the cervical (neck) region...there's not really much adipose(fatty) connective tissue(well, maybe on inyati13's cows); it's just loose fibrous connective tissue.

 

[branguscowgirl]

not all subcutaneous tissue is 'fat' .
In the cervical (neck) region...there's not really much adipose(fatty) connective tissue(well, maybe on inyati13's cows); it's just loose fibrous connective tissue.

This is true. But in the (human) medical profession a "Sub Q injection" must go into the "fat layer". If I gave a true "sub dermal" injection to a patient, they would develope a hard knot. And possibly a sterile abscess.

 

[Quigly]

I don't know about the human side, but in the animal world, sub-q and under the skin are interchangeable. Maybe you are confusing sub-dermal with intradermal, which is how tuberculin is given for a TB test, within the skin not under it. In cattle, I would use a 1" needle for IM injections, 3/4 and 5/8 work best for sub q. Tenting is the ideal method of giving sub-q injections, but I don't usually tent. You will have a certain percent of injections that go IM rather than sub-q, but it usually isnt a big deal. The one product I do tent skin with is Longrange, it is very important that it goes sub-q to get the proper duration. The product I never tent for is Micotil, I dont want to accidentally hit my other hand with it.

 

[branguscowgirl]

I don't know about the human side, but in the animal world, sub-q and under the skin are interchangeable.

Yes I agree, it sounds like the definition of a "SQ injection" has a different meaning from human vs animal. We use a lot of SQ infusions and injections. The sites must be areas that adipose tissue can be pinched up between your thumb and fingers such as the abdomen, upper thigh, back of upper arm and even the top of the breast. Obviously Insulin and Morphine can not be infused in humans just "under the skin." Sorry for the confusion.
Yes, my typo on using the word "sub dermal" instead of "intradermal" for TB. Late night, I was not thinking straight.

 

[highgrit]

45 degree angle to the neck with a 3/4" needle and you'll never have to tent the skin. Don't put your hands between the calf and the chute.

This is the proper way to give a SQ injection on cattle.

 

[branguscowgirl]

45 degree angle to the neck with a 3/4" needle and you'll never have to tent the skin. Don't put your hands between the calf and the chute.

This is the proper way to give a SQ injection on cattle.

Yes, sorry that I was over thinking this. (Sleep depravation I guess.)

 

[Koffi Babone]

I have always tented the skin (because I don't need to process large number of animals). If you inject a large amount of fluids, there will be a bump that appears. I can think of two cases where you inject large amounts of fluids.

1) Milk fever in dairy cattle. First two bottles of calcium IV, the third one sub Q (Calcium borogluconate, anything else will irritate the tissue and may cause an abcess). You will see a bump appear.

2) Rehydration of small critters. Ringer's lactate sub Q.

 

[Lucky_P]

I'm with milkmaid...3/4" needle, you can hardly give anything but a subcutaneous injection.
After 35+ years in veterinary medicine, and 50+ years raising cattle, I can say that I don't think I've ever 'tented' skin for a sub-Q injection on a cow(dogs & cats... yes). I just know the anatomy and the angle at which I need to go in.
Had a 2nd-year vet student from NCSU here for an externship last year; we worked calves one day - he spent WAY too much time 'tenting' skin, and shot way too much vaccine out on the ground, going through the other side of his 'tent' ; glad it was just (relatively inexpensive) blackleg bacterin - I just had him draw up and give another dose. Don't know that I ever broke him of his tenting habit.
Had way more vaccine knots/abscesses than I ever get, too; maybe he does need to be a pathologist...

 

[inyati13]

I'm with milkmaid...3/4" needle, you can hardly give anything but a subcutaneous injection.
After 35+ years in veterinary medicine, and 50+ years raising cattle, I can say that I don't think I've ever 'tented' skin for a sub-Q injection on a cow(dogs & cats... yes). I just know the anatomy and the angle at which I need to go in.
Had a 2nd-year vet student from NCSU here for an externship last year; we worked calves one day - he spent WAY too much time 'tenting' skin, and shot way too much vaccine out on the ground, going through the other side of his 'tent' ; glad it was just (relatively inexpensive) blackleg bacterin - I just had him draw up and give another dose. Don't know that I ever broke him of his tenting habit.
Had way more vaccine knots/abscesses than I ever get, too; maybe he does need to be a pathologist...

Lucky: I dropped the tent practice for the reasons above. I use a 1 inch needle and put it in at an angle. On calves, I will pull the skin up for Clostridial. Spirovac and Bovi-Shield can be given SQ or IM so I don't worry with those.