Hi guys. This is my first post but have been reading your posts for quite a while. I have a small cow herd and have been fooling with cattle for a few years. I am currently in expansion mode. I always swear off buying bred heifers but seem to come home with them anyway. I understand the first calf is generally not going to do as well as following calves. Is there some rule of thumb as to what the second or third calf will do based off the first calf if using same bull? For example if you wean a 500 lb steer at 7 months off a heifer will she raise a 600 lb calf at 7 months with same inputs on the second calf?
How much do you expect from 1st calf heifers?
- Thread starter Penantly
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Maybe. If you're using the same bull it depends on the heifer/cow, nutrition, health, vaccinations (sound animal husbandry), sex of the calf, weather/time of year, and whether she breeds back consistently. I'm sure I'm missing many more potential factors.
Katpau
Well-known member
The American Angus association adjusts the weights of calves based on the age of their mom at the time of weaning. I assume those adjustments are based on the averages of all weights reported in the past. They do this in order to compare adjusted weaning weights of calves born to different age cows. A calf born to a cow that is less than 3 years and 91 days old when that calf is 205 days old would have 67 pounds added if it was a bull calf and 55 pounds if a heifer. A cow between the age of 5 years 92 days and 10 years 91 days has no adjustment, but cows younger than that or older will have their weaning weights adjusted for age. Those numbers can be viewed at the AAA website.
In other words, Angus 2 year old heifers on average wean calves that are 55 pounds (heifer) to 67 pounds (bull calf) lighter then they will wean as 5 year olds.
In other words, Angus 2 year old heifers on average wean calves that are 55 pounds (heifer) to 67 pounds (bull calf) lighter then they will wean as 5 year olds.
Coosh71
Well-known member
That's a tricky question. We have had great looking heifers raise lil dinks and we have had heifers raise some monster calves. I'd say this... Out of first calf heifers it's more important to get live/healthy calves and get mom bred back with the cow group she is going to be blended in with as a cow. If you can do that then with 2nd and 3rd calf is when we start judging a little harder.
bird dog
Well-known member
Agree with Coosh here but to answer your question yes the second calf should be better and the next few after that better still, all things being equal. Its after their third calf you can really judge the cow.
I buy a few bred heifers and second calf young cows but like to see a calf from my bull before deciding.
I buy a few bred heifers and second calf young cows but like to see a calf from my bull before deciding.
It really depends on your environment and herd management practices. We breed for calving ease so we expect them to calve unassisted and be a good mother to their calf. If they are lazy and aren't showing effort when in labor or are terrible mothers and have issues claiming their calves they usually don't last long. The 1 problem we sometimes run into is the heifer milks so well and we have a dry summer they can't keep their weight up and breed back later or come up open. With ideal conditions most of the 1st calf heifers breed back on 1st cycle but we've seen that the 2nd year calving is the one they sometimes breed back 3 weeks later because we had a hot and dry year and they didn't cycle as soon.
Those females that breed back like clockwork and calve the same week every year and wean a good calf are the ones you build your herd around. Heifers are such a crapshoot. Over the years I've seen some great looking heifers turn out to be terrible cows and have seen marginal heifers we nearly culled turn into some of the best cows we've had so you'll have a gut feeling...
Those females that breed back like clockwork and calve the same week every year and wean a good calf are the ones you build your herd around. Heifers are such a crapshoot. Over the years I've seen some great looking heifers turn out to be terrible cows and have seen marginal heifers we nearly culled turn into some of the best cows we've had so you'll have a gut feeling...
gcreekrch said:
I think that is realistic. Especially living with whatever they produce, weight wise.
They're growing themselves, growing another calf hopefully, and feeding their 1st calf. Asking a lot of them
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Penantly - first off - WELCOME!!
Katpau gave you the best/correct answer. All breed associations have a table that gives you the adjusted weights.
Katpau gave you the best/correct answer. All breed associations have a table that gives you the adjusted weights.
Nesikep
Well-known member
I've seen some variations on the theme... some odd scenarios...
I've seen first calf heifers raise exceptional calves the first time and kinda "outdo" themselves, the second calf not doing as well, but usually by the 3rd calf they will be in full swing
I've seen some first timers have small calves and progressively get better, and some that raised dinks that never did any better.
This cow had a small heifer the first time, and average one the second, and then she had the biggest steer of the herd, Now 9 years old she has the sassiest heifer.. on the left is her maternal sister, she did really well with her first (last year) but this year I'm unexcited about her calf.. maybe next year she'll settle into it
I've seen first calf heifers raise exceptional calves the first time and kinda "outdo" themselves, the second calf not doing as well, but usually by the 3rd calf they will be in full swing
I've seen some first timers have small calves and progressively get better, and some that raised dinks that never did any better.
This cow had a small heifer the first time, and average one the second, and then she had the biggest steer of the herd, Now 9 years old she has the sassiest heifer.. on the left is her maternal sister, she did really well with her first (last year) but this year I'm unexcited about her calf.. maybe next year she'll settle into it
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
SPH The 1 problem we sometimes run into is the heifer milks so well and we have a dry summer they can't keep their weight up and breed back later or come up open. With ideal conditions most of the 1st calf heifers breed back on 1st cycle but we've seen that the 2nd year calving is the one they sometimes breed back 3 weeks later because we had a hot and dry year and they didn't cycle as soon.[/quote said:
Nesikep
Well-known member
That's kinda what I'm seeing from the limos crosses I have.. they milk very well right from the start but the mommas look like a can of smashed arseholes by the end of the season.. so far they've bred back alright though
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
There are exceptions to everything. The breed associations chart is AVERAGE. That is the only thing you can base your cattle on - or give this OP an answer. EVERY animal is different.
Katpau
Well-known member
There are always exceptions, but in most cases you can expect your heifer to wean progressively heavier calves as she ages from a first calf two year old to a mature 5 year old. For anyone interested I have posted the averages for Angus cattle below. In that table, you can see that the average increase in weaning weights between the first calf and the second is between 23 and 30 pounds, depending on that calves sex. You would expect her to continue to increase weaning weight up to 5 years old. Cows 10 and older are also expected to wean lighter calves.
Weaning Age of Dam Adjustment Chart
If Age-of-dam (at 205) is:
Add Lbs. to Age Adjusted Weaning Weight
..........................................MALE FEMALE
thru 2 yrs. 243 days......................68 57
2 yrs. 244 days thru 3 yrs. 91 days.....67 55
3 yrs. 92 days thru 3 yrs. 273 days.....37 32
3 yrs. 274 days thru 4 yrs. 91 days ....29 21
4 yrs. 92 days thru 5 yrs. 91 days .....15 13
5 yrs. 92 days thru 10 yrs. 91 days .....0 0
10 yrs. 92 days and older............... 22 19
Weaning Age of Dam Adjustment Chart
If Age-of-dam (at 205) is:
Add Lbs. to Age Adjusted Weaning Weight
..........................................MALE FEMALE
thru 2 yrs. 243 days......................68 57
2 yrs. 244 days thru 3 yrs. 91 days.....67 55
3 yrs. 92 days thru 3 yrs. 273 days.....37 32
3 yrs. 274 days thru 4 yrs. 91 days ....29 21
4 yrs. 92 days thru 5 yrs. 91 days .....15 13
5 yrs. 92 days thru 10 yrs. 91 days .....0 0
10 yrs. 92 days and older............... 22 19
Katpau
Well-known member
You should also expect your heifer to give birth to progressively heavier calves as she ages from 1 to 5 years of age. On average a heifer will give birth to a calve that is about 7 pounds lighter then you can expect out of her at 5.
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
Nesikep said:
I ran some high percentage ranch type Hereford heifers in a previous life. Excellent breed back, but had to watch the calves for BRD. I think limited milk stressed them and increased the chance of disease.
I have been calving heifers a couple weeks early, so if they have their second calf at 45 days from the cow herd start, they are really at 60 to 70 days back from their initial calving date. The place I see the most rebred delay is on slower maturing heifers that continue to grow a lot after calving. Some breed tendencies here. :cowboy:
I had on old timer tell me to calve heifers later than the cows. :???: His theory was to rebred them before they got milked down. Could be some feed quality issues involved in his operation.
Nesikep
Well-known member
I think it depends on your management, but I've often found the later calving ones breed back better as well.. If you grain your animals I think it's differentStocker Steve said:
I have little no experience on this but we are also a small farm. My smallest cow has shown progressively better calves each time (now on her 3rd). Her first calf was 55lbs, second 60lbs and yesterday gave birth to a 75lb calf.
I bred 5 heifers this year. 4 have calved so far and they have all actually given me similar calves to their size at birth. One of my heifers was 110lbs at birth and she just gave us a 100lb bull calf. She was a big calf and she has given us a very big calf.
I can relate to the small cow herd and wanting to get the most out of it and we keep our breeding cows based on their nature mainly. If they breed easy, calve easy and are good mothers i keep them even if they give us a 50lb calf that stays on the smaller side.
I bred 5 heifers this year. 4 have calved so far and they have all actually given me similar calves to their size at birth. One of my heifers was 110lbs at birth and she just gave us a 100lb bull calf. She was a big calf and she has given us a very big calf.
I can relate to the small cow herd and wanting to get the most out of it and we keep our breeding cows based on their nature mainly. If they breed easy, calve easy and are good mothers i keep them even if they give us a 50lb calf that stays on the smaller side.
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
Nesikep I think it depends on your management said:
TexasBred
Well-known member
Seems people as well as animals produce at a level that is proportionate to the amount of energy available. When we are in a negative energy balance we usually prefer to lay around and do nothing. Animals are the same way. Provided with adequate energy we become productive and accomplish things in a timely and often exceptional manner.
