How much better are funnel type round bale feeders?

[canoetrpr]

I'm planning to pick up two round bale feeders for the litter Galloway herd that I am starting. I had decided on the Model MWR feeder pictured here: http://www.agdealer.com/pages/view-list ... /index.cfm.

It is about $450 up here.

Someone was telling me that feeders that allow the hay to contact the ground waste a lot which makes sense. A funnel feeder from a local manufacturer (J.K. Reid) runs about $1100!. Here is a link: http://www.jkreid.com/cattle.html

Does anyone have any thoughts on how much better one of these funnel feeders will be vs. the ring feeder I posted above? 2x more is quite a bit of cash but it all depends on how much hay will be wasted out of a ring feeder that I could potentially save.

 

[dun]

If a cone feeder saves 10% over a standard feeder and you pay $30 a bale that means you would save 3 bucks a bale. So you would have to feed 215 plus bales to break even

 

[SRBeef]

The thing about one of the MWR type (I have a Bextra which is close) is they save a lot of hay, however, think if your bales will fit in them (mine don't) and how you are going to load it. Since I do not have a bale grapple to place the bale gently in the feeder, and use a bale spear, the only way I have found to load my 6ft+ dia (also not always perfectly round this time of year) bales in the Bextra is to lift these 1600 lb bales high and try to drop them into it. Sometimes I miss by a bit and have bent the feeder. It's my fault I know but if someone has a better way to do it please let me know.

On "hay losses" I have to admit I have changed my mind on "wasted hay" a bit. Since I do not have a concrete pad to feed on, I have two sacrifice areas where I keep the hay feeders for my two groups in relatively small areas.

As usual, I am probably swimming upstream here: I WANT a bit of hay to be /dropped spread around the outside of the feeder to give them some footing and also to build a manure pack. The hay dropped is not the best hay usually or they would pick it up again. In any case it absorbs urine and manure. In late spring when they are moved to grass pastures out of the sacrifice areas I can use a manure fork to pile this hay manure mix into a compost pile. Turn it a couple times during the summer and it is just amazing stuff by the time November comes around. Very useful stuff.

I have a new pasture nearby the compost pile and a neighbor and I spread it with compost in November. This is great stuff. So the hay dropped around the feeder is not much and also is not really wasted. A key is to not fiil the feeders until they really eat everything edible that is there.

I use about 2.8% of the body weight per day in hay consumption. Based on that calculation, this is the amount of hay left in two cradle feeders (a double and single = 3 bales) as seen from the road as I pulled my truck up to the area today after being gone for two weeks. Some of the cows in this group are not visible in the woods.

This is a little close but really right where I want to be. For this to work you really need to know VERY CLOSELY the weight of your cattle and the weight and quality (this is 16% protein) of your hay bales.

Ref the pictures in my feeding post from WI today.

In the end I guess I like the Cradle type feeders shown best of all and secondly the regular round bale feeders that sit on the ground but have slanted bars. I don't really think I want a bottom in a feeder. After a big rain and hay etc clogs the drain holes I think you may have some hay soup in the base... or maybe they eat it all. But there is likely SOME hay in a bale which is not edible...

Good luck.

Jim

 

[canoetrpr]

Good thing I posted my plans here. I certainly don't have a gentle way to drop the bales either!

Currently I have a 3 pt spear and plan on getting a spear for my front end loader. Sounds like I might be better off with a regular slant bar feeder. I plan on getting 4x5 bales as I don't think my Kubota can handle bales too much bigger than that on the FEL.

 

[SRBeef]

Good thing I posted my plans here. I certainly don't have a gentle way to drop the bales either!

Currently I have a 3 pt spear and plan on getting a spear for my front end loader. Sounds like I might be better off with a regular slant bar feeder. I plan on getting 4x5 bales as I don't think my Kubota can handle bales too much bigger than that on the FEL.

This is where the lighter duty/cheaper rings come in - some folks roll the ring to the bale rather than the bale to the ring. Most of the Heavy duty feed rings however are a lot for me to handle even at 6-1/230. I think God made tractors and bale spears for a reason.

The other extreme is the feed rings made out of plastic tubing...I have no experience with those.

If one makes the decision to go with netwrapped or plastic wrapped bales to preserve quality then you have to lift them anyway to get the netwrap or plastic wrap off.

now I don't want to discourage you from the MRW type. I think it looks good actually. It and the Bextra might work a lot better with a 4x5 bale rather than my 5x 6.5 bales.

A very important question for you: where are you going to purchase 4x5 bales?? Do you have a source lined up or will you make them yourself? Around here the 5x6 bales are MUCH more common than smaller sizes and more available and less handling per ton of hay. If you are buying a new tractor you might be better off with a used but larger tractor. May cost you the same or less and be able to handle big bales safely. Look at weights/fluid in tires, the whole system etc before you buy anything.

Most folks tend to buy a tractor that is too light for what they really would like to do.

Good luck. Jim

 

[wtrapp]

I was wondering the same thing as you (standard hay ring vs the cone type) and even put a post on here asking for everyone's feedback. The information received was great and after much thought I purchased a Bextra Hay Ring and really like it. I use 5X5 rolls with no problem. They fit inside the ring and there is hardly any waste. I know the upfront cost is more than the standard hay ring but for me I like the fact that the cows are eating more hay than they waste. In the end it boils down to whatever you like the best.

 

[SRBeef]

I was wondering the same thing as you (standard hay ring vs the cone type) and even put a post on here asking for everyone's feedback. The information received was great and after much thought I purchased a Bextra Hay Ring and really like it. I use 5X5 rolls with no problem. They fit inside the ring and there is hardly any waste. I know the upfront cost is more than the standard hay ring but for me I like the fact that the cows are eating more hay than they waste. In the end it boils down to whatever you like the best.

As I said above, I like the idea of the Bextra feeder and they do save hay. But I think there is more to it than what you "like best". There is the physics of the thing also.

One must be really careful planning the size of bales you are going to use with it and just how are you going to load it. I think most folks will have to drop a bale in from the top. I'm glad to hear it works with a 5x5 bale. It is extremely tight with my slightly oversize 5 ft wide x 6 ft dia bales. Here's a picture from when it was brand new last year to show how tight a fit it is. And when you miss the exact center a few times with a 1600 lb bale it bends.

I have better things to do than to be fixing bale feeders all the time. As far as I am concerned there ought to be a label on these saying for 5 ft dia bales or smaller. These are expensive. jmho. Jim

 

[backhoeboogie]

There are several long threads on this subject already with very good input. Thus far I have stayed out of this thread to keep from repeating myself for the umpteenth time.

 

[canoetrpr]

I have no guarantee that I will be able to always source 4x5 bales. To be honest 5x5s are more common here as well. I don't believe I should have a problem picking them up with my tractor but it is on the edge of what it can handle and while I handle 5x6s with my rear spear, I don't think I'd want them on the front of my tractor. I have seen a number of farmers advertise in Ontario Farmer for 4x5 bales but I do need to get my supplier sorted out.

I just think that with a front mounted spear, it is going to be hard to drop a bale into a feeder just right if the feeder is not adequately bigger than the bale. It certainly sounds like the Bextra is a tight fit. The diameter of the MWR seems to be 8'4" which is the same as other slant bar feeders. Should this not adequately allow one to drop a 5x5 bale in without too much geometric manipulation to get it just right?

How wide is the Bextra in comparison?

 

[backhoeboogie]

It takes roughly 80 foot of pipe to build a cradle that will hold three of those bales. And a small scrap piece of cattle panel.

I built a dozen cradles out of old trampoline frames with gusseting. I may have $12 a piece in them when you consider welding rod. Their pics have been posted several times.

If you can't weld, get a cracker box and start practicing now. You'll never be sorry.

The cradles will pay for themselves many times over.

 

[canoetrpr]

Thanks for the tip backhoe. I'll seek out your pictures. I have been feeling guilty recently that my lovely Millermatic has been sitting unused and this might a project I ought to take on. Heck I've been wondering if I should sell the darn thing since I haven't used it in months. I'm no expert at welding but practise is what is necessary.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Here you go. The first one ever built out of a scrapped trampoline frame. A cattle panel piece welded in the bottom. The last 11 are a bit more robust but this one will hold a bale and a half on the load test. Just like the energizer bunny, its still going. Now if you used pipe instead of the galvanized trampoline frame, you'd have way more compression strength. The only thing giving this thing strength is the gusseting which is also all scrap metal pieces.

http://ranchers.net/photopost/showphoto ... puser/2144

 

[backhoeboogie]

Caustic put me on to this idea some years back. I tried it but used junked trampoline frames. It is a huge hay saver over the plain old rings I was using. My cows stay out side the ring until it is down to about half. Then they blow the ring off of it or else push it to the side. Then the hay gets trampled, laid in, or ruined in one fashion or another. This cradle design stopped all that for me. Some hay falls through but usually they pick it up since it is underneath and not trampled. It is not 100% but it is way better than a ring.

Caustic's picks of his version are back there in the threads somewhere too. Taking a look at what he did, I went from there and found success. It renders me beholding based on how much I have saved since then.

 

[alisonb]

I have been feeling guilty recently that my lovely Millermatic has been sitting unused and this might a project I ought to take on. Heck I've been wondering if I should sell the darn thing since I haven't used it in months. I'm no expert at welding but practise is what is necessary.

If you do end up making one yourself consider this suggestion. Have the feeder split open on hinges as if you were opening a door. No need to lift bales,all you do is spear bale and drive it into feeder,deposit and then close feeder. That is of cause applicable to the round feeders you refer to in your first thread.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Dry Matter Hay waste, by Glenn Selk:
3.5%, 6.1%, 11.4% adn 14.6% for the cone, ring, trailer & cradle feeders. "In other words, there was about one-fourth as much hay wasted from the cone feeder as there was from the cradle feeder. Also the traditional ring feeder resulted in less than half as much hay wastage as was found from the cradle feeder." "The researchers determined that slanted bar designs encourage animals to keep their head in the feeder for longer periods while eating. You can see photos of the hay feeders and read the entire article by going to the website listed here."
http://www.msu.edu/~buskirk/Publication ... 81-109.pdf source: Buskirk, et al. 2003

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

oops. just tried that link and it does not work any longer. Took this info out of one of my newsletters.

 

[dun]

oops. just tried that link and it does not work any longer. Took this info out of one of my newsletters.

Worked for me!

 

[backhoeboogie]

"The researchers determined that slanted bar designs encourage animals to keep their head in the feeder for longer periods while eating. You can see photos of the hay feeders and read the entire article by going to the website listed here."
http://www.msu.edu/~buskirk/Publication ... 81-109.pdf source: Buskirk, et al. 2003

So don't build them with slanted bars. Mine do not have them. Many of the store bought versions do not have them. Some do.

They save a whole bunch versus setting the hay on the ground and putting a ring around it.

 

[ChrisB]

I have no experience with other types of feeders than the regular rings but I would think that you need to consider how your bales are tied and where they are stored. Also your location/enviroment may be an issue. What I mean is if you have a couple inches of frozen and wasted hay on the bottom of your bales I would think you would have to clean off the cradle between bales or you would have a lot of buildup on top. Does anyone in cold enviroments have experience with this or am I off base? I have considered trying other types of feeders but all I see around my area are the standard rings and I question how well the cone and cradle feeders would work.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

"The researchers determined that slanted bar designs encourage animals to keep their head in the feeder for longer periods while eating. You can see photos of the hay feeders and read the entire article by going to the website listed here."
http://www.msu.edu/~buskirk/Publication ... 81-109.pdf source: Buskirk, et al. 2003

So don't build them with slanted bars. Mine do not have them. Many of the store bought versions do not have them. Some do.

They save a whole bunch versus setting the hay on the ground and putting a ring around it.

Backhoe - I'm sorry. I might have taken that quote out of context and you misunderstood. SLANTED bars are GOOD. Every time a cow pulls her head OUT of the feeder, they tend to drop feed on the ground.
ChrisB - the rings work very well. I prefer the ones with "skirts". As noted with the research, rings only have about 2.6% more waste than the expensive cone feeders. Even if your bales are worth $40, that's about $1.04/bale wasted over the cone feeders. I'm not saying that any waste is good, I just can't justify the expense of the cone feeders.