How much Angus is to much?

[True Grit Farms]

We're an Angus based crossbred operation. I'm wanting to add some Brahma to the mix, will I get enough Brahman infuence using Brangus bulls? I plan on following the Brangus with Braford. Just wondering if I should go the Braford route first. The problem is I need to have some black calves for my commercial heifer sales. Everything you do in the cattle business takes a long time to see the results.

 

[Farm Fence Solutions]

I don't have a dog in the fight, but in my opinion, a Hereford brings more to the table than an Angus, if you are starting with a heavily Angus influenced herd, and breeding for replacement commercial heifers. You are right.....It takes a few years to see if works like you want.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

If you'll be raising replacements I'd go brangus first,, the Brahman influence goes a long way ..and I'd ease into it..you can always add more...like putting salt in beans.are you looking at Wynn?? looks like you couldn't go wrong right there.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I don't have a dog in the fight, but in my opinion, a Hereford brings more to the table than an Angus, if you are starting with a heavily Angus influenced herd, and breeding for replacement commercial heifers. You are right.....It takes a few years to see if works like you want.

FFS, our pen of black baldie commercial bred heifers brought $400 more than our pen of red baldie heifers at the same sale. Same commercial cattle bred by the same bull, just a different color. Apparently the buyers are color blind around here. Most folks thought the set of red heifers were better on adverage. Personally I'd have all red and white cattle if it didn't hurt so much at the replacement sales. At the sale barn our good red steers hang right with the black, makes no sense.

 

[True Grit Farms]

If you'll be raising replacements I'd go brangus first,, the Brahman influence goes a long way ..and I'd ease into it..you can always add more...like putting salt in beans.are you looking at Wynn?? looks like you couldn't go wrong right there.

Probably Wynn for the Brangus and Adams for the Braford. I told my wife lies about how bad Brahman cattle were growing up at the ranch and now I'm paying for it. I bought some decent, nothing special Brangus and Beefmaster cows to try 3 - 4 years ago and I can see that's the direction we need to to go. I can only imagine the results using top of the line genetics.

 

[callmefence]

I like where you going grit. have you crossed your angus on your beefmaster. I tell you what I ran a homo black angus bull over some pure beefmaster cows for a few years. the dozen or so hiefers I kept are absoultly the best cattle ive had. most are 3 to 4 years now. they all have very nice calves right know out of a angus bull....their running with a f1 tiger hoping to some replacements

 

[True Grit Farms]

Yes I have Fenceman and my results mirror yours.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

If you'll be raising replacements I'd go brangus first,, the Brahman influence goes a long way ..and I'd ease into it..you can always add more...like putting salt in beans.are you looking at Wynn?? looks like you couldn't go wrong right there.

Probably Wynn for the Brangus and Adams for the Braford. I told my wife lies about how bad Brahman cattle were growing up at the ranch and now I'm paying for it. I bought some decent, nothing special Brangus and Beefmaster cows to try 3 - 4 years ago and I can see that's the direction we need to to go. I can only imagine the results using top of the line genetics.

Adams definitely the way to go for Bradford...years of breeding behind theirs..

 

[Ky hills]

At first I thought this was a rhetorical question? To which I would have responded that depending on the situation there might not be a such thing as too much Angus, if straight bred ones worked well for a particular outfit.
We are Angus and Hereford based, for here I wish that cattle having some ear were more acceptable in the markets. I have a few Brahman influenced cows probably run between 1/4 to 1/2 blood, when bred to Angus or Hereford bulls most of those calves blend right in with the others, sometimes a higher percentage cow will have a calf with a little more ear and navel but not real concerning. I think that for here if the majority of a group of calves sold were 1/4 or higher percentage Brahman they would get docked, but probably a good group of calves with no more than that may do ok, depending on how much they showed. We also sell bred heifers through a regional sale, and this year I could put in what I think are really nice 1/4 Brahman 3/4 Hereford calves but I would rather keep them than risk the double whammy dock of being red white faced and eared when sold in small groups.

I have often thought about using a Brangus or Beefmaster bull to get some females out of, then breeding them back to Angus or Hereford bulls.

 

[Farm Fence Solutions]

I don't have a dog in the fight, but in my opinion, a Hereford brings more to the table than an Angus, if you are starting with a heavily Angus influenced herd, and breeding for replacement commercial heifers. You are right.....It takes a few years to see if works like you want.

FFS, our pen of black baldie commercial bred heifers brought $400 more than our pen of red baldie heifers at the same sale. Same commercial cattle bred by the same bull, just a different color. Apparently the buyers are color blind around here. Most folks thought the set of red heifers were better on adverage. Personally I'd have all red and white cattle if it didn't hurt so much at the replacement sales. At the sale barn our good red steers hang right with the black, makes no sense.

We see similar trends in the market here. What I was getting at.....If the goal is an improved commercial momma cow, you'll likely get her quicker with the Hereford influence over the Angus. Come back with the Angus influence for your terminal crop. Again, just my opinion, and it shouldn't influence you in the least. If my goal were to sell bred heifers for the most profit, it sounds to me like they'd be black baldies. I'm betting that you already know what you'll do. ;-)

 

[True Grit Farms]

"I have often thought about using a Brangus or Beefmaster bull to get some females out of, then breeding them back to Angus or Hereford bulls."[/quote]

That's exactly where I'm going except using Braford instead of Beefmaster. Using Angus bulls on red baldies has produced all black calves and some black baldies.

 

[Hogtiming]

There is so many different lines in the angus genetics that I think you can cross those a little and get some hubrid vigor in purebred situations. A Hereford/angus cow is the best imo and cross that with a simmental bull and You have a great terminal cross

 

[jehosofat]

Listenin'

 

[BC]

You say you are in middle Georgia, so I assume your climate is like East Texas. You need a little Brahman influence (3/16 to 3/8) in your females. When you use a Brangus or Santa Gertrudis (both 3/8 Brahman influence) on an English type cow, you get a 3/16 blood calf. It is less than 1/4 blood and those calves sell well here.

People in this area drank the Kool-Aid and have used black bulls so much that they have given up weaning weight and heat tolerance. Get your cow herd that works in your environment and with your forages and use the type of bull that produces the type feeder calf your market desires.

I know you talked about Brangus and Braford, but there are some good pictures of various crosses using Santa Gertrudis in a PowerPoint on the bottom of the SGBI site. http://santagertrudis.com/ The theory is the same no matter what American breed you use. Check them out.

 

[jltrent]

Good thread as I learned a lot from reading.....I have had a few cows with Brahma cross and it may have just been the ones I had, but they seem to get pretty nervous when penning up and working with. I do like the bigger ears as a lot less pink eye chance though. I wish all my cows were angus/ hereford crosses as they bring more and around here climate wise do good. I like horned hereford bulls crossed with a double pole angus cow the best that the calves come out motley faced with a little white on their belly.

 

[jdg]

Has anyone used Senepol as the cross over the british breeds, instead of Brahma, to get the heat tolerance? I realize there is less hybrid vigor, staying within the species, but it would seem they might offer the heat tolerance and slick coat, without giving up some of the potential disadvantages of Bos Indicus cattle.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Has anyone used Senepol as the cross over the british breeds, instead of Brahma, to get the heat tolerance? I realize there is less hybrid vigor, staying within the species, but it would seem they might offer the heat tolerance and slick coat, without giving up some of the potential disadvantages of Bos Indicus cattle.

The only disadvantages to Bos Indicus cattle was spoon fed to you by the people who brought you the scam CAB.

 

[Ky hills]

Has anyone used Senepol as the cross over the british breeds, instead of Brahma, to get the heat tolerance? I realize there is less hybrid vigor, staying within the species, but it would seem they might offer the heat tolerance and slick coat, without giving up some of the potential disadvantages of Bos Indicus cattle.

The only disadvantages to Bos Indicus cattle was spoon fed to you by the people who brought you the scam CAB.

I am of the opinion that % Brahman breeding would be beneficial as far north as we are here. Depending on the year it can be pretty hot for several months, and the added effects of fescue pastures seem to me to make Brangus, Beefmaster, Santa Gertrudis, viable options for increased productivity. There used to be several herds of those around, and even some Brahmans weren't too uncommon to see in pastures. Probably the last 20 to 30 years they got pretty scarce. It seems like some of the American breeds are making a bit of a come back, starting to see a few more American breeds around again.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Has anyone used Senepol as the cross over the british breeds, instead of Brahma, to get the heat tolerance? I realize there is less hybrid vigor, staying within the species, but it would seem they might offer the heat tolerance and slick coat, without giving up some of the potential disadvantages of Bos Indicus cattle.

The only disadvantages to Bos Indicus cattle was spoon fed to you by the people who brought you the scam CAB.

Just because a breed of cattle does well in a certain environment, doesn't mean it's a good eating experience. CAB excels on the dinner plate as steaks, the southern heat tolerant breeds make great hamburgers. Finding a happy medium between the two is what I'm looking for.
CB, have you ever ate any venison from the corn belt? Venison from the corn belt has more of a beef flavor and is a more tender piece of meat. Open your eyes to the big picture, everyone isn't so lucky to be from the south.

 

[Brute 23]

I would go straight Brahman Bull. Not saying there aren't good Brangus animals but its not the same when you cross.

Your doing it right. Keep the heifers and spend time with them. They won't dissapoint.