How long for labor

[Suzie Q]

That was not a snide remark from me either. I was totally serious, but realise that it would never happen. I agree with 3way. I have no idea about your laws over there. But the RSPCA would be after you over here. Animals have rights not to be in pain. There would be no not allowing a vet on your place. The RSPCA would have their own vet in and people who keep animals in pain are prosecuted.

Cows and horses suffer in silence. They do not whimper like a dog. The reason you were told to shoot her was to put her out of her misery.

We only hope that you have learned from this experience and that you will have more empathy for the animals in your care in the future.

You cared enough to post for help when you were in over your head. Realise now that in the future for the same situation you need facilities to hold her, something to pull the calf out and if you are not strong enough yourself you might need the help of friends to come and help you day or night.

There is a lot of information on this site for you to learn, you have come to the right place. Search search and search.

 

[IL cow man]

Raising livestock has some hard lessons and I am glad you butchered the cow as calling a vet would have been a waste of time. The uterus had probably already ruptured in that time frame and the cow would more than likely died anyway. Just keep posting if you have more questions and people will help you. I want to point out none of these people were born experts, but have a lot of experiences to pass on to the willing to learn.

 

[Amo]

Good thing to look for is front feet. The front hoofs (toes) should be pointed down. If they were pointed up it was comming backwards. Also learn what a hock is. Thats the back leg. Front legs should be smooth. No "bumps" on them.

Learn as much as you can.

 

[Angus Cowman]

Good thing to look for is front feet. The front hoofs (toes) should be pointed down. If they were pointed up it was comming backwards. Also learn what a hock is. Thats the back leg. Front legs should be smooth. No "bumps" on them.

Learn as much as you can.

I think I am misunderstanding what you mean or your just expressing it wrong
The front tips of the hoof (Toes) as you referred to should be pointing UP not down
The SOLES(bottom of hoof) should be pointing Down

 

[Amo]

The way you experssed it is better. The bottom of the feet down is front. I know what it looks like just spit it out wrong.

 

[Blessed cows]

I think I need to clarify some things after re reading what I originally wrote!
This cow had Not had the calf stuck for several days
It happened saturday evening or nite and I posted on here Monday morning and again tuesday, after getting your advice I tried to remove the calf but it was stuck I felt inside the cow and all that was coming out was the feet I could not feel a head like you have suggested and from what I have read elsewhere
I then talked to Brother and he came and decided that we should kill and butcher the cow and if anything was ruptured or severely infected He would not of used her for our comsumption
He has been a Butcher for over 20 yrs and knows what he is doing
When Brother butchered the cow the calfs head was turned back beside its body and he says that is why the cow couldn't deliver the calf

Yes Mr 3waycross, Father is not my daddy as you assumed he is My Husband and the spiritual leader of our congregation. We are not a cult but we just prefer to live a self sustaining lifestyle and not be dependent on the world for our needs
Our brothers work and myself and the sisters raise the children,the cows,tend the gardens and the houses
Everyone here has their job and they do it to support our lifestyle and sustain us with the lords help
I am sorry that you beleive we are a cult but it is attitudes like this that we prefer to not have anymore contact with the outside world than is needed
We aren't living in filth and have all the amenities we need such as nice homes,clean water,electricity,computers and our children get a very good education as several have gone to college and done quite well and some have came back to us and others have gone on to live and work as they see fit and done quite well for themselves
We do not keep anyone here against their will and they can leave anytime they want
We live the way we do because it is how we want to live, We are not anti gov't or militant
We are law abiding
again Thank you and God Bless
SaraLynn

 

[chippie]

Poor cow :(

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

We appreciate that some people choose to live a different livestyle. We are glad you found our forum to ask questions.
I would "assume" you have mid-wives to delivery your children. Noone would let a woman work in labor from Sat evening til Monday morning, let alone til Tuesday morning, without some invention.
All of us try to leave our cattle alone to calve on their own, but, if they do not show any progress after an hour of labor, we restrain the animal & help.
So, when you felt inside the cow and could not feel the head, now you know that the head was back. At that point, you would have to PUSH the calf back inside the cow & lift the head around into position. Sometimes, when you check, you may only have 1 leg & the head - you then have to get the 2nd leg up into position.
It takes a LOT of strenth to push the calf back inside the cow.
Most calves can be saved, if assisted soon enough.
At least you salvaged meat from the cow.
Read thru some of the posts on here & you can learn a lot.

 

[MistyMorning]

I think I need to clarify some things after re reading what I originally wrote!
This cow had Not had the calf stuck for several days
It happened saturday evening or nite and I posted on here Monday morning and again tuesday,

Yes the cow did have the calf stuck in her for several days, you posted that in your first post and as far as I can tell from Sat evening until Tues is several days.

I then talked to Brother and he came and decided that we should kill and butcher the cow and if anything was ruptured or severely infected He would not of used her for our comsumption
He has been a Butcher for over 20 yrs and knows what he is doing

If he had so much experience with butchering, he should have a lot of experience with livestock, why didn't you go to him on Sat evening and ask for help/advice?

I have a hincky feeling that all of this is a load.

 

[hillsdown]

our children get a very good education as several have gone to college and done quite well and some have came back to us and others have gone on to live and work as they see fit and done quite well for themselves

Perhaps one of your "brothers" or "sisters" should try to get into vet school so you have someone knowledgeable in your sect and on the compound .

 

[jilleroo]

SaraLynn
We visited a similar group to yours last year, in Canada, and we were totally impressed by the organisation and work ethic of the
inhabitants. The animals were all well cared for and I think yours are too - it takes time to get experience with cattle and you're getting it! Keep reading these boards, you'll learn a lot more and know how quickly you need to act in various situations. The question of your post "How long for labour" has been answered - generally only a few hours from beginning to end.
We have to manage without vets too (due to remote location) and its no big deal. If you build up your knowledge a little like you're trying to do, you'll be fine with your 36 cows. Remember - good judgment comes from bad experience!

 

[Nesikep]

I can't say a heck of a lot that hasn't been said before, but I will say that we try to be self sufficient as far as our fertility, seed, etc goes, but when we need help, we do turn to more specialized people. if you can, next time you have a problem, just phone a veterinarian and tell him the circumstances, and ask what you can do

As Jilleroo said... Good judgement comes from bad experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement

good luck in the future!

 

[mridgecattleco]

I can't say a heck of a lot that hasn't been said before, but I will say that we try to be self sufficient as far as our fertility, seed, etc goes, but when we need help, we do turn to more specialized people. if you can, next time you have a problem, just phone a veterinarian and tell him the circumstances, and ask what you can do

As Jilleroo said... Good judgement comes from bad experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement

well put

 

[Blessed cows]

Jilleroo and Nesikep
Thank you for your advice and concern
MistyMorning
this is not a load of anything and I am sorry you feel that way
Brother that is a butcher has very little experience with live cattle as most of the ones he has dealt with were dead, which is the way most are when they are butchered
I guess you folks just cut the steaks off of your animals while they are alive and roaming the pastures?

Hilsdown, I am trying to learn all I can about cattle and it would be nice to have a Vet in our community but I doubt that is doable
I guess you must be a Vet since you own cattle! I didn't know that it was a requirement to be a Veterinarian before you could own cattle
I have asked a cuple of the rancher that we deal with and they have informed me that there is not a Vet for atleast 100 miles from us anyway and they would of done the same thing in our case
One rancher is a fairly large has several 100 cows and he said when calving in the desert as we do that things happen and he and you can't save them all
some of us don't live in quiet little suburbs with our cows on 20 manicured acres and a vet on call everytime one of them sneezes
I came to this site for advice and I got some very good advice from some of its members and some useless snide remarks from others which I have become used to because of the way we choose to live outside of the Norm for society
One of the reasons Father doesn't allow many outsiders in is because of attitudes like some of you have demonstrated on here
We have very few neighbors but the ones that are our friends are allowed and come and go as they please
our neighbors find us a very hospitabl and a friendly group and value our service in this community as we have a few businesses that they rely on

Again
Thanks to all of you who gave me good advice
SaraLynn
God Bless

 

[chippie]

May I ask where you are located? Just the general area. We are located on the Texas Gulf Coast. We have a small farm and have a few Jersey's and beef cattle.

You might find "Storey's guide to Raising Beef Cattle" helpful. Another book is "The Cattle Health Handbook" You can buy both at Amazon.com

Another helpful resource is to check out publications at your state or county Extension service.

There are free publications here: http://animalscience.tamu.edu/academics/beef/publications/index.htm

I hope that you find them useful. Although if you live in the desert, getting ready for a hurricane probably doesn't apply LOL :D

 

[MistyMorning]

MistyMorning
this is not a load of anything and I am sorry you feel that way
Brother that is a butcher has very little experience with live cattle as most of the ones he has dealt with were dead, which is the way most are when they are butchered
I guess you folks just cut the steaks off of your animals while they are alive and roaming the pastures?

Alright SaraLynn, here goes........I apologize for stating that this thread and your issues could be something other than what you have posted. I really don't care what your or anyone elses religious leanings are, you do what you need or want to do with regards for that, it's just plain and simple I don't care. Now, I too am a relative newcomer to raising livestock. We, like you live a relatively self sufficient livestyle. It has been my experience over the past years that the butchers we have used, are a wealth of information on livestock. That is the case around these parts. I can appreciate that not everyones experiences are exaclty the same as mine.

Hilsdown, I am trying to learn all I can about cattle and it would be nice to have a Vet in our community but I doubt that is doable
I guess you must be a Vet since you own cattle! I didn't know that it was a requirement to be a Veterinarian before you could own cattle

Should you hang around this forum, and I suggest that you do if you are going to continue to work with your cattle, you will find that Hillsdown is a very, very knowledgable cattlewoman and has helped many folks over the years, it would do you well to search some of her posts and learn from her.

I have asked a cuple of the rancher that we deal with and they have informed me that there is not a Vet for atleast 100 miles from us anyway and they would of done the same thing in our case
One rancher is a fairly large has several 100 cows and he said when calving in the desert as we do that things happen and he and you can't save them all

Any rancher worth his or her salt had a cow that they had access to would have intervened with that cows birth. They can't afford to let it go, now sure they lose some when they are out on range, but if they had your situation, they would not let it go.

I came to this site for advice and I got some very good advice from some of its members and some useless snide remarks from others which I have become used to because of the way we choose to live outside of the Norm for society

Again, I have no issue with your lifestyle choices, that is your business. My only thoughts are about your cattle issues. My advice, should you be interested at all, is to first, develop a thicker skin, and most important ask questions and read as much as you can here, in books or other websites. You may not like all the answers, but you will learn from it. So to wrap this post up, I do apologize for my snide remark, I am a bit of a cynic.

 

[chippie]

Misty Morning's post got me to wondering, what sort of cattleman would tell you that it is OK to let a cow go for hours / days with the feet sticking out?

Just my :2cents:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Misty Morning's post got me to wondering, what sort of cattleman would tell you that it is OK to let a cow go for hours / days with the feet sticking out?

Just my :2cents:

Exactly. We don't care what your lifestyle is, NOONE with a grain of concern for a live animal would allow her to walk around with feet out for days (yes days). We should not "humanize" our livestock, but birthing is the same for all living things. Sometimes mother nature does not work and you have to intervene. All we are saying, is that common sense has to be applied if you are going to care for your animals.
You got severe reactions/comments, because we CARE about our animals and it is appalling to visualize what your cow was going through.
If you are not a cult, or Amish, or Menenite, what do you call your "group"?

 

[dun]

Misty Morning's post got me to wondering, what sort of cattleman would tell you that it is OK to let a cow go for hours / days with the feet sticking out?

Just my :2cents:

I'm thinking that what they had meant was if the found a cow that was in that bad of shape and couldn;t turn the calf that they would shoot it. Not let it go for days after having observed the problem originally. Least ways that how it sounded to me.

 

[regolith]

If you are not a cult, or Amish, or Menenite, what do you call your "group"?

Why would it matter, Jeanne? I was raised in what I call a mainstream religion, my neighbour tells me it's a cult. Comes down to no more than opinion and what side of the fence you're on.

Hillsdown's skill level - and that of several experienced farmers on this board including jilleroo, Jeanne, Dun - includes veterinary knowledge. That's something that comes with experience, studying, and encountering problems. It's a bit harder to gain with only a handful of cows, but you've learned from this one and will know how to deal with the next.