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NECowboy

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HDRider":11p1sce0 said:
pricefarm":11p1sce0 said:
TCRanch":11p1sce0 said:
Husband & I were just discussing this. We "sold" an older tractor to a semi-neighbor/semi-friend, he was supposed to make payments, no interest. And then he needed brome for his horses which somehow got added to his outstanding balance. He's truly a nice enough person & has had hard times so no contract (our bad), just a handshake. Low & behold after 10 years of being a bachelor he found himself a girlfriend. No payment in 6 months. What to do??

I would go over and pick up the tractor myself.
Me too.

Essentially yes but if litigation ever occurs ur contract, security agreement etc, and acceleration notice (notice of default) all protect ya
 

Stocker Steve

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TCRanch":1urwl0n4 said:
He's truly a nice enough person & has had hard times so no contract (our bad), just a handshake. Low & behold after 10 years of being a bachelor he found himself a girlfriend. No payment in 6 months. What to do??

Sounds like he doesn't love the tractor any more. Be gentle with him, but find out what his intentions are.
 

Clodhopper

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JMJ Farms":3llcidwk said:
kenny thomas":3llcidwk said:
JMJ Farms":3llcidwk said:
If people that owed me money chased me down to pay me like I chase down the people I owe money to pay them ..... Then I'd have enough to burn a wet mule.
X2, and relatives are the worst.
Relatives and folks that have plenty of money. A poor man will pay you when he can't afford to.
I've seen that plenty of times. I used to drive a propane truck and had two attorneys on the COD list. I also had little old ladies without a pot to pee in that would go without eating to get their bill paid, and worried about it if they couldn't pay it immediately.
 

callmefence

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It's actually in our adds. Well when we ran adds. Its own my business cards.
You pay nothing until we finish. I build you fence With my money.
I do this often on a handshake with local customers. Commercial work, most work in town , and when we let customers pay out in monthly payments..

In 25 years I've been burned once for 1300.00 . we set down the road untill the guy left for work. And we repossed his chain link fence. It's around my sons back yard now.
 

NECowboy

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callmefence":342w5l26 said:
It's actually in our adds. Well when we ran adds. Its own my business cards.
You pay nothing until we finish. I build you fence With my money.
I do this often on a handshake with local customers. Commercial work, most work in town , and when we let customers pay out in monthly payments..

In 25 years I've been burned once for 1300.00 . we set down the road untill the guy left for work. And we repossed his chain link fence. It's around my sons back yard now.

My fence contractor told me before he started he expects paid immediately once job done as he has guys to pay etc, he had me buy and haul the wire and post up to site. After he got done project he dropped by next day at office to pick up check. I thought it was a great way to do business. I feel like a lot of contractors charge markup on fencing material so was thrilled to just buy it myself. Fence I showed you the homemade welded gate closers, I think he did one heck of a job!
 

inyati13

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The guy who hauled my dozer also did dozer work. An older woman hired him to grade around her house. He said she wanted it perfect. He completed the job, went to his truck figured the bill as the terms dictated, went to the door, knocked, she opened it and he presented the bill. She said she could not pay but would within the month. Of course, he had his doubts. A month later no pay. He stopped and she came to the door. He ask for payment. She said the work was horrible and she had no intentions to pay. He said OK. I will put it all back the way it was. She told him, she would have him arrested. He said do what you want but unless you plan to never leave, I will come back the first time you are gone and put it back just the way it was. She paid!!!
 

TCRanch

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NECowboy":rtfwgis1 said:
callmefence":rtfwgis1 said:
It's actually in our adds. Well when we ran adds. Its own my business cards.
You pay nothing until we finish. I build you fence With my money.
I do this often on a handshake with local customers. Commercial work, most work in town , and when we let customers pay out in monthly payments..

In 25 years I've been burned once for 1300.00 . we set down the road untill the guy left for work. And we repossed his chain link fence. It's around my sons back yard now.

My fence contractor told me before he started he expects paid immediately once job done as he has guys to pay etc, he had me buy and haul the wire and post up to site. After he got done project he dropped by next day at office to pick up check. I thought it was a great way to do business. I feel like a lot of contractors charge markup on fencing material so was thrilled to just buy it myself. Fence I showed you the homemade welded gate closers, I think he did one heck of a job!

We bought the materials when we had our fence replaced (actually bought extra for eventual repairs). They did an amazing job ON TIME and we paid immediately. One & done plus word of mouth positive advertising. Sadly, not the norm.
 

NECowboy

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TCRanch":3t28bmkp said:
NECowboy":3t28bmkp said:
callmefence":3t28bmkp said:
It's actually in our adds. Well when we ran adds. Its own my business cards.
You pay nothing until we finish. I build you fence With my money.
I do this often on a handshake with local customers. Commercial work, most work in town , and when we let customers pay out in monthly payments..

In 25 years I've been burned once for 1300.00 . we set down the road untill the guy left for work. And we repossed his chain link fence. It's around my sons back yard now.

My fence contractor told me before he started he expects paid immediately once job done as he has guys to pay etc, he had me buy and haul the wire and post up to site. After he got done project he dropped by next day at office to pick up check. I thought it was a great way to do business. I feel like a lot of contractors charge markup on fencing material so was thrilled to just buy it myself. Fence I showed you the homemade welded gate closers, I think he did one heck of a job!

We bought the materials when we had our fence replaced (actually bought extra for eventual repairs). They did an amazing job ON TIME and we paid immediately. One & done plus word of mouth positive advertising. Sadly, not the norm.

Yup word of mouth I pay it forward too as I also depend on word of mouth in my business. Glad to recommend my contractor to anyone.
 

D2Cat

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TCRanch, I would go over and pour some fuel in the tractor (making sure the guy was home). When he came out to ask what you are doing, I'd tell him he obviously doesn't want the tractor so you're going to get it back home.

If he doesn't offer at least some money, I'd road it home!

You can call him a friend, but friends don't act like that under any circumstances. They at least communicate with you, esp. when they don't do as expected.
 

callmefence

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TCRanch":2dfev394 said:
NECowboy":2dfev394 said:
callmefence":2dfev394 said:
It's actually in our adds. Well when we ran adds. Its own my business cards.
You pay nothing until we finish. I build you fence With my money.
I do this often on a handshake with local customers. Commercial work, most work in town , and when we let customers pay out in monthly payments..

In 25 years I've been burned once for 1300.00 . we set down the road untill the guy left for work. And we repossed his chain link fence. It's around my sons back yard now.

My fence contractor told me before he started he expects paid immediately once job done as he has guys to pay etc, he had me buy and haul the wire and post up to site. After he got done project he dropped by next day at office to pick up check. I thought it was a great way to do business. I feel like a lot of contractors charge markup on fencing material so was thrilled to just buy it myself. Fence I showed you the homemade welded gate closers, I think he did one heck of a job!

We bought the materials when we had our fence replaced (actually bought extra for eventual repairs). They did an amazing job ON TIME and we paid immediately. One & done plus word of mouth positive advertising. Sadly, not the norm.

You take a risk when you buy materials. A poorly done job is a waste of materials. Your stuck with it.
When your contractor buy s the material with his money, he will take better care with them.
I show my customers who want to buy their own material how much cheaper I can buy than they can .
 

NECowboy

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callmefence":2riyncgn said:
You take a risk when you buy materials. A poorly done job is a waste of materials. Your stuck with it.
When your contractor buy s the material with his money, he will take better care with them.
I show my customers who want to buy their own material how much cheaper I can buy than they can .

This guy has done all kinds of beautiful 5 wire fence in my area with creosote posts and has a reputation for great work so I had no concerns. Just driving around in my county and knowing who he's done work for I've seen many samples of his excellent work. We went out and drove along the fence with gator together, I told him where I wanted gates, I went back out after brush had been cleared as to exactly where fence was to go and he did a fantastic job. I didn't drop off the material til approximately an hour before he came and left it on a trailer for him and his crew. Fence if you can do a cost plus like that where you break down your labor and the material cost (cost plus) I'm all for that I just hate the guys that say ok it's 3.00 dollars per foot and don't tell you how they arrived at that or what's part of it cuz I feel like there is then a mark up on the materials.
 

callmefence

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NECowboy":cgfudj91 said:
callmefence":cgfudj91 said:
You take a risk when you buy materials. A poorly done job is a waste of materials. Your stuck with it.
When your contractor buy s the material with his money, he will take better care with them.
I show my customers who want to buy their own material how much cheaper I can buy than they can .

This guy has done all kinds of beautiful 5 wire fence in my area with creosote posts and has a reputation for great work so I had no concerns. Just driving around in my county and knowing who he's done work for I've seen many samples of his excellent work. We went out and drove along the fence with gator together, I told him where I wanted gates, I went back out after brush had been cleared as to exactly where fence was to go and he did a fantastic job. I didn't drop off the material til approximately an hour before he came and left it on a trailer for him and his crew. Fence if you can do a cost plus like that where you break down your labor and the material cost (cost plus) I'm all for that I just hate the guys that say ok it's 3.00 dollars per foot and don't tell you how they arrived at that or what's part of it cuz I feel like there is then a mark up on the materials.

I'll do for you on this forum. But as a customer
No it's none of your business how I come up with my numbers... when you buy a truck or groceries or a new pocket knife do you get a parts plus labor bill. I give you a price up front. You can get as many other bids as you won't.....I give guarantee my work..I guarantee my work ( price won't change guarantee)
And I guarantee you I won't come to you asking for one dime until the jobs done and your happy.
But show you my numbers...no
 

NECowboy

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callmefence":33rei5qm said:
NECowboy":33rei5qm said:
callmefence":33rei5qm said:
You take a risk when you buy materials. A poorly done job is a waste of materials. Your stuck with it.
When your contractor buy s the material with his money, he will take better care with them.
I show my customers who want to buy their own material how much cheaper I can buy than they can .

This guy has done all kinds of beautiful 5 wire fence in my area with creosote posts and has a reputation for great work so I had no concerns. Just driving around in my county and knowing who he's done work for I've seen many samples of his excellent work. We went out and drove along the fence with gator together, I told him where I wanted gates, I went back out after brush had been cleared as to exactly where fence was to go and he did a fantastic job. I didn't drop off the material til approximately an hour before he came and left it on a trailer for him and his crew. Fence if you can do a cost plus like that where you break down your labor and the material cost (cost plus) I'm all for that I just hate the guys that say ok it's 3.00 dollars per foot and don't tell you how they arrived at that or what's part of it cuz I feel like there is then a mark up on the materials.

I'll do for you on this forum. But as a customer
No it's none of your business how I come up with my numbers... when you buy a truck or groceries or a new pocket knife do you get a parts plus labor bill. I give you a price up front. You can get as many other bids as you won't.....I give guarantee my work..I guarantee my work ( price won't change guarantee)
And I guarantee you I won't come to you asking for one dime until the jobs done and your happy.
But show you my numbers...no

It is my business how you come up with it ur installing materials for me that I could easily buy on my own all I'm hiring you for is labor, way different then building a house or buying a truck. I mean ur talking wire and post and then I don't care to know how u arrived at your labor per square foot or gate charge. That way I know what I'm paying is fair and not padded on the material.
 

callmefence

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Go to Wal-Mart buy you a steak a potato and the stuff to make a salad. Take to your nearest steakhouse hand em the bag and say cook this for me just charge me for the labor.

What difference does it matter. I can buy materials much cheaper than you can. You would loss money buying them yourself.
Plus if something is short or not right it's my problem not yours.
Usually a contractor that requires money up front. Dosent have the money or credit to run his business from payroll to payroll.
 

Nesikep

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If you lend a guy $20 and never see him again, it was probably a good investment!

I pay for everything up front, if I need to take credit, I do that with a bank.
I've been burnt pretty badly with loans, those people are out of my life, and I don't go looking for more of their ilk. I have a few close friends who owe me, but they do a lot for me as well that I would be unable to afford paying for.
 

JMJ Farms

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callmefence":34ql4tvj said:
Go to Wal-Mart buy you a steak a potato and the stuff to make a salad. Take to your nearest steakhouse hand em the bag and say cook this for me just charge me for the labor.

What difference does it matter. I can buy materials much cheaper than you can. You would loss money buying them yourself.
Plus if something is short or not right it's my problem not yours.
Usually a contractor that requires money up front. Dosent have the money or credit to run his business from payroll to payroll.

Im with you fenceman. 100%. Only a person who owns their own business and works for the public understands this. If I give you a price as a contractor, and you agree to the price as a customer, well that's about as fair as it gets.

Had a customer a couple of years ago. I usually contract labor and materials. This was an extensive remodel job on a very very old house. Long story short, I told him their was no possible way I could bid the total job because of the nature of the project. So I gave him a labor price per hour. $x for two guys, $x for three guys, and so on, depending on how many I had working. I also stated that I, myself, get paid regardless of whether I'm at the job site or not. I told him that I was furnishing the men, the tools, the liability, and the responsibility. We agreed. No problems. He was by the job several times a day so it's not like he wasn't able to observe progress.

Fast forward one month. He requested a DAILY, DETAILED list of how many employees I had working that day, what each one of them did that day, how much each one of them got paid, and how much I got paid. I told him it was none of his business how much I paid my employees and that I didn't have time to make his "list". He owns a retail business. I then told him that I didn't come in his business, buy a product, and then request to know how much his wholesale cost was, what was his profit, how much each employee made out of that profit and how much he made. I then asked him "do I get to buy it any cheaper if you're not here?" Needless to say he didn't like this. I finished with "we've been neighbors for 20 years. If you don't trust me then you need to find someone that you do trust and you and I need to go back to just being friends, before that's not an option anymore". So that's what we did.

Funny thing is he was absolutely amazed at the quality of work. Very satisfied. He is a successful businessman and he wanted to "run" my business. Ain't happening.

Last note. Everyone who has ever worked for him ran into very similar issues. However most would kiss his a$$ and go on because they knew the check would be good every Friday. I guess I've got too much pride. Sorry for writing a book.
 

NECowboy

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Look what I'm talking about is billing the posts and your per square foot charge separate. Posts at cost from lumber store x separate, barbed wire, literally like 3 items lol. Could not be simpler as to material needed for a fence as opposed to building a house. I own my own business and work for the public. I bill hourly and any costs are clients responsibility but I don't bill postage, paper, ink etc that's all in my hourly.

I guess I could figure out based on what posts cost buying from lumber yard, how many I'd need etc what component is labor that's what I did on a couple other contractors who did it all in vs a couple other contractors who had me buy material. Ended up cheaper just paying labor but that was those contractors. I liked to figure cost on labor only as fence one of few things with no components. No my hourly charge what it consists of and yours and what we pay our employees is no ones business agreed. I can send you a copy of our bill fence so you see what I mean. But if your cost was competitive due to lower materials then that's great but I like doing my homework to know how much is labor so I know what I can save diy next time!
 

callmefence

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NECowboy":1mr8mc2w said:
Look what I'm talking about is billing the posts and your per square foot charge separate. Posts at cost from lumber store x separate, barbed wire, literally like 3 items lol. Could not be simpler as to material needed for a fence as opposed to building a house. I own my own business and work for the public. I bill hourly and any costs are clients responsibility but I don't bill postage, paper, ink etc that's all in my hourly.

I guess I could figure out based on what posts cost buying from lumber yard, how many I'd need etc what component is labor that's what I did on a couple other contractors who did it all in vs a couple other contractors who had me buy material. Ended up cheaper just paying labor but that was those contractors. I liked to figure cost on labor only as fence one of few things with no components. No my hourly charge what it consists of and yours and what we pay our employees is no ones business agreed. I can send you a copy of our bill fence so you see what I mean. But if your cost was competitive due to lower materials then that's great but I like doing my homework to know how much is labor so I know what I can save diy next time!

Sorry we don't agree. But my post and wire come by the truckload I don't run down to the home depot for every job. I worked hard for my buying power and I ain't sharing it. What about workers comp liabilty ins. Unemployment. Matching ss and Medicare you won't that broke down to.
No offense ne cowboy. We get along pretty good.
But when I run into a customer with those kinda demands. I tell em while your at home depot picking up materials go ahead and pick up a few wetbacks , cause that's the kinda outfit your looking for.

I'm real glad your happy nwith your fence though. I'd be real intrested in seeing how they did it up there
 

NECowboy

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callmefence":2q33hqbh said:
NECowboy":2q33hqbh said:
Look what I'm talking about is billing the posts and your per square foot charge separate. Posts at cost from lumber store x separate, barbed wire, literally like 3 items lol. Could not be simpler as to material needed for a fence as opposed to building a house. I own my own business and work for the public. I bill hourly and any costs are clients responsibility but I don't bill postage, paper, ink etc that's all in my hourly.

I guess I could figure out based on what posts cost buying from lumber yard, how many I'd need etc what component is labor that's what I did on a couple other contractors who did it all in vs a couple other contractors who had me buy material. Ended up cheaper just paying labor but that was those contractors. I liked to figure cost on labor only as fence one of few things with no components. No my hourly charge what it consists of and yours and what we pay our employees is no ones business agreed. I can send you a copy of our bill fence so you see what I mean. But if your cost was competitive due to lower materials then that's great but I like doing my homework to know how much is labor so I know what I can save diy next time!

Sorry we don't agree. But my post and wire come by the truckload I don't run down to the home depot for every job. I worked hard for my buying power and I ain't sharing it. What about workers comp liabilty ins. Unemployment. Matching ss and Medicare you won't that broke down to.
No offense ne cowboy. We get along pretty good.
But when I run into a customer with those kinda demands. I tell em while your at home depot picking up materials go ahead and pick up a few wetbacks , cause that's the kinda outfit your looking for.

I'm real glad your happy nwith your fence though. I'd be real intrested in seeing how they did it up there

Heck no I don't have breakdown unemployment ss etc. I see since u have volume discount that lowers cost for both you and customer, then I would keep doing it that way Andy! I'll send some pics. I don't go to Home Depot much they don't understand ag buy them at local yard.
 

inyati13

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Fence:
Dipping posts to creosote them was banned. Where are you getting cresote treated posts? Or are these old inventory?

Edit
Sorry, it is NeCowboy who mentioned creosoted posts:
This guy has done all kinds of beautiful 5 wire fence in my area with creosote posts and has a reputation for great work so I had no concerns.
 

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