How far back until not considered "inbreeding"

[Lawson Farms]

We have a mostly commercial herd with very few registered angus cows. A year ago we culled a registered angus bull b/c of a front shoulder issue. I got a good deal on (2) registered angus bulls, but I missed the fact that one of them was related to the bull I culled until after I got them home.

Here is my question. I have a few heifers out of the culled bull (bull A). They've just been AI'd, and we'll turn Bull B into the pasture with the heifers and other cows in a few weeks. Is it bad if the Bull A and Bull B both have the same materal grand-sire? I'd like to use Bull B rather than the unrelated Bull C at this time.

 

[dun]

That's far enough back for me to use him

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I am with dun.

 

[backhoeboogie]

You shouldn't have any issues using that bull.

 

[Lawson Farms]

Thanks for the replies.

BL

 

[ANAZAZI]

Hexk if the bulls were half brothers, the bull B would only be "half-uncle" to the heifer or genetially a cousin. That would not be inbreeding either.

 

[B&M Farms]

It's called linebreeding if it works. It's called inbreeding if it doesn't.

 

[backhoeboogie]

It's called linebreeding if it works. It's called inbreeding if it doesn't.

I respectfully disagree and feel there is a big difference.

 

[AllForage]

It's called linebreeding if it works. It's called inbreeding if it doesn't.

Sorry, but this is total ignorance.

 

[dun]

It's called linebreeding if it works. It's called inbreeding if it doesn't.

Sorry, but this is total ignorance.

It;s just one of those handy old sayings. Been around as long as there has been breeding going on

 

[AllForage]

yeah you are right Dun, just does not help spreading bad info. If more folks practiced it our beloved heterosis would be more effective.

 

[Stepbystep]

It's called linebreeding if it works. It's called inbreeding if it doesn't.

Not to poke a stick at a bee hive but can someone please explain the difference between line breeding and inbreeding to a newbie?

Thanks

 

[backhoeboogie]

It's called linebreeding if it works. It's called inbreeding if it doesn't.

Not to poke a stick at a bee hive but can someone please explain the difference between line breeding and inbreeding to a newbie?

Thanks

People have tried to explain before. Our opinions and personalities seem to get us in trouble.

My opinion is there has to be a LINE in order for it to be line breeding. If you can't see a line, there isn't one. That's how its been all my life until I came to this forum, and my mind is too stubborn to learn new twists and skews to centuries old tradition. If folks want to start telling me what I call black my entire life is actually white - I can only listen. I don't care to fight or argue about it.

Your turn Doc Harris.

 

[TexasBred]

Probably 90% of the cattle in the US are crossbreeds. Dang near that many are line bred as so many of these little operations won't use a different bull until the old one dies from old age. (or would that be inbreeding). :lol:

 

[AllForage]

The most basic definition is that inbreeding breaks the 50% barrier such as sire/dam mating.

 

[AllForage]

Probably 90% of the cattle in the US are crossbreeds. Dang near that many are line bred as so many of these little operations won't use a different bull until the old one dies from old age. (or would that be inbreeding). :lol:

I suppose thats true Texas, but everyone I run into fears close-breeding worse than the IRS!

For what it is worth, The best explanation aside from the actual application explanation like Jim's book is one I found referenced in Hazelton's book. It is called "Animal Breeding" by Lawrence M. Winters. Mine is a copyright 1925 and was a textbook for many college's in it's day. Seems to be taught from before closebreeding was considered taboo and crossbreeding dominated all curriculum. It distinguishes between the 3 types of inbreeding which are, inbreeding, in and inbreeding, and Linebreeding. Also discusses prepotency and grading. Examples are shown in animals and crops. It only cost me around 15 bucks off a used book site for an excellent copy.

Have a good one.

 

[backhoeboogie]

I sure wish the cattle gurus from my youth would have been writers. I also wish I would have paid more attention and asked more questions.

 

[bigag03]

The most basic definition is that inbreeding breaks the 50% barrier such as sire/dam mating.

I disagree with this definition completely. Inbreeding is the mating of two related individuals. Linebreeding is a controlled form of inbreeding used to increase the homozygosity of the genetics of a particular line (sometimes the genetics of 1 individual...aka Anxiety the 4th in Herefords). By increasing homozygosity, the desirable traits (and sometimes undesirable traits) can be passed to the next generation with more uniformity and predictability. Most of the typical linebreeding gurus will recommend to keep the relationships of two individuals below 50% for mating purposes, but even at low percentages of relationship, it is still inbreeding.

 

[AllForage]

The most basic definition is that inbreeding breaks the 50% barrier such as sire/dam mating.

I disagree with this definition completely. Inbreeding is the mating of two related individuals. Linebreeding is a controlled form of inbreeding used to increase the homozygosity of the genetics of a particular line (sometimes the genetics of 1 individual...aka Anxiety the 4th in Herefords). By increasing homozygosity, the desirable traits (and sometimes undesirable traits) can be passed to the next generation with more uniformity and predictability. Most of the typical linebreeding gurus will recommend to keep the relationships of two individuals below 50% for mating purposes, but even at low percentages of relationship, it is still inbreeding.

My mistake, I meant sire/daughter or Dam/son. Thanks for pointing it out. I do not need to be convinced of its benefits since I am involved in the Anxiety 4th genepool.

Thanks

 

[bigag03]

The most basic definition is that inbreeding breaks the 50% barrier such as sire/dam mating.

I disagree with this definition completely. Inbreeding is the mating of two related individuals. Linebreeding is a controlled form of inbreeding used to increase the homozygosity of the genetics of a particular line (sometimes the genetics of 1 individual...aka Anxiety the 4th in Herefords). By increasing homozygosity, the desirable traits (and sometimes undesirable traits) can be passed to the next generation with more uniformity and predictability. Most of the typical linebreeding gurus will recommend to keep the relationships of two individuals below 50% for mating purposes, but even at low percentages of relationship, it is still inbreeding.

My mistake, I meant sire/daughter or Dam/son. Thanks for pointing it out. I do not need to be convinced of its benefits since I am involved in the Anxiety 4th genepool.

Thanks

I wasn't questioning your wording as I assumed you were referring to parent/offspring mating. I was questioning your definition in general. It does not have to be 50% relationship to be inbreeding. ANY mating of related animals is inbreeding by definition whether it is planned or not.