horsenettle question

[dun]

I WOULD NOT plant clover until you have the horsenettle under control - I've done that and paid dearly for it. Every herbicide that will kill or control the nettle will kill the clover.

Pasture reclamation is a long process. You can;t get rid of every undesierable plant in just a year or 2. You need a multi year plan. First fertility, second weed control, third reintroducing the desireable stuff. The herbicides that control broadleaf weeds also control broadleaf desierables. Unless you use glypohosate you won;t harm the grasses, which in itself can be a problem if the undesirable is a grass.
With any amount of acerage you can;t correct all the patures at the same time, money rears it's ugly head when you try. You can either start with your worst or your best and get that right, then move on to the next. We hit a pasture really hard to get a good handle on it and just throw a lick and a promise at the others, jusat enough to keep them from getting much worse.

 

[Bluestem]

I'm open to new ideas, bluestem. Why was the horsenettle there and how do you correct and/or prevent it? I always had the notion that it spreads by mainly by birds and animals which are pretty much uncorrectable. To a lesser extent spread by farm machinery which is correctable.

Not knowing your soil, I will give you some ideas and things to look for. Low Ca,P. High K and Mg. Ca and Mg may be out of balance. Soil may be sandy with low organic matter. First thing I would do is improve the organic matter. High organic matter can over come other deficiencies or buffer them. How would I do it? I would use my cattle. Use MIG or mob grazing. Second choice would be poultry litter. Plant clover this fall. Over all you are improving the soil health, which will also reflect in herd health. My thoughts on this, if it has stickers or leaves a rash its natures way of saying KEEP OUT Land under repair.

I WOULD NOT plant clover until you have the horsenettle under control - I've done that and paid dearly for it. Every herbicide that will kill or control the nettle will kill the clover. I have used MIG for 8 years and it doesn't get rid of the nettle, cows are too smart to eat that stuff unless they have been trained to eat it and I am not sure that works either. I have not seen any studies of Mob grazing that truly documents the effect of the practice on the nettle population - no testimonials, I want to see a simple controlled study. Should be very easy.

Billy

First- Your not going to find "a simple controlled study". There is no money in it. More money to be made selling the herbicide. How many cows per acre are you running in your MIG operation? Goal is not to force them to eat nettle. But to considerate manure and urine, thus improving the soil over time. If you are going spray the herbicide, don't plant the clover. I would like to see a simple controlled study that shows the effect of a common herbicide on soil health. No testimonials.
There has been over 400 million years of research and development since this experiment has started. A few are trying to understand the results. Most have decided to go off in another direction. They have been at it less than 100 years and don't have a clue.

 

[Bluestem]

I WOULD NOT plant clover until you have the horsenettle under control - I've done that and paid dearly for it. Every herbicide that will kill or control the nettle will kill the clover.

Pasture reclamation is a long process. You can;t get rid of every undesierable plant in just a year or 2. You need a multi year plan. First fertility, second weed control, third reintroducing the desireable stuff. The herbicides that control broadleaf weeds also control broadleaf desierables. Unless you use glypohosate you won;t harm the grasses, which in itself can be a problem if the undesirable is a grass.
With any amount of acerage you can;t correct all the patures at the same time, money rears it's ugly head when you try. You can either start with your worst or your best and get that right, then move on to the next. We hit a pasture really hard to get a good handle on it and just throw a lick and a promise at the others, jusat enough to keep them from getting much worse.

 

[Bluestem]

I WOULD NOT plant clover until you have the horsenettle under control - I've done that and paid dearly for it. Every herbicide that will kill or control the nettle will kill the clover.

Pasture reclamation is a long process. You can;t get rid of every undesierable plant in just a year or 2. You need a multi year plan. First fertility, second weed control, third reintroducing the desireable stuff. The herbicides that control broadleaf weeds also control broadleaf desierables. Unless you use glypohosate you won;t harm the grasses, which in itself can be a problem if the undesirable is a grass.
With any amount of acerage you can;t correct all the patures at the same time, money rears it's ugly head when you try. You can either start with your worst or your best and get that right, then move on to the next. We hit a pasture really hard to get a good handle on it and just throw a lick and a promise at the others, jusat enough to keep them from getting much worse.

Thanks dun. Kind of what I was trying to say.

 

[MrBilly]

60 Mom cows on plots of 7 A.

Billy

 

[porchpickles]

i also have alot of horsenettle this yr..was told this PASTURE PRO herbicide works really well........the 24d just didnt do the trick.....my extension guy said grazon is way more expensive.....HOWEVER, i dont like to put tons of chemicals down if i dont have to......this pasture pro can work in the fall too.i plan to try it in aug.....what did you end up doing???????....im in blue ridge mts. of va.....anyone out there have dexters???????

 

[john250]

I like herbicides, while conceding they are not a "cure-all".

Dun hit it really well. And, there is no sense leaving out part of his scenario. For instance, if you fertilize you will spend so much money that you cannot risk leaving out herbicides and seeds. Assuming it rains, however, you can double or triple your available forage versus the no fert, no herbicide scenario. It really depends on whether you can profitably feed that forage to cattle (or sheep, hogs, goats, etc).

It would help a lot if we got a better price for cattle, but if we wish in one hand...

 

[dun]

i also have alot of horsenettle this yr..was told this PASTURE PRO herbicide works really well........the 24d just didnt do the trick.....my extension guy said grazon is way more expensive.....HOWEVER, i dont like to put tons of chemicals down if i dont have to......this pasture pro can work in the fall too.i plan to try it in aug.....what did you end up doing???????....im in blue ridge mts. of va.....anyone out there have dexters???????

Lets see, Pasture Pro IS 2,4-d and yes Grazon is more expensive. A big share of the cost of Grazon has to do with the residual propertys of picloram.
http://www.pbigordon.com/pdfs/PasturePr ... ide-SL.pdf

 

[novatech]

From Noble Foundation;

Number 4. Sprayed at the wrong growth stage (I got to it when I could.)
Most weeds are best controlled when they are young and actively growing. When they get larger, it takes more herbicide to kill them, and control is much more erratic. Horsenettle and blackberries are an exception. Control of both of these is best when they are in full bloom or have fruit on them. Spraying them too early results in a top kill, but regrowth usually occurs. Read the label carefully to determine timings for specific weeds.

Number 3. Used the wrong product (What's the cheapest thing you've got?)
Often, the cheapest herbicide will do as well as anything else. This is true when the weeds fall into the easy-to-control category and conditions are ideal for control. For difficult-to-control weeds (Sericea lespedeza and horsenettle, for example), more expensive chemicals are usually needed. Going the cheap route can be good if you do an excellent job of observing the cautions listed previously in this article, but may not work if conditions are less than ideal.

http://www.noble.org/Ag/Soils/WeedContr ... index.html

Some other stuff I did not know;

Description
Horse nettle is a prickly, herbaceous shrub that grows up to 1m tall. Horse nettle grows in pasture situations and can tolerate a wide range of soil types. Roots are spread by cultivation and can produce new shoots, even when severed.

Reasons for the Strategy
Horse nettle spreads rapidly, reducing pastoral potential and the berries are poisonous to livestock and humans.

Rhizomatous roots can remain dormant for several years before re-sprouting. There is only one known site in the Waikato Region, in the Waipa District.

Another article; http://wssa.allenpress.com/perlserv/?re ... -037X(2004)018%5B1091%3AHSCCIT%5D2.0.CO%3B2&ct=1

After reading these articles and many more it seems as though use of 2-4-D alone only kills the top growth. For control it needs to be sprayed in the early flowering stage with 2-4-d combined with picloram in order for the roots to be killed also.
When in a pasture livestock can eat around it. When baled with hay or silage it can be more readily be eaten by livestock and is toxic.

 

[dun]

From Noble Foundation;

Number 4. Sprayed at the wrong growth stage (I got to it when I could.)

That is I think the single most frequent reason for failure. I had a witches brew of glyphosate and Grazon, Remedy and Tordon left over and sprayed one area that had a mixture of grasses and other weeds, there were a couple horse nettles in the mix. Everything has died except the nettle. The leaves have holes in them and are ugly looking, but they still are flowering.

 

[novatech]

From Noble Foundation;

Number 4. Sprayed at the wrong growth stage (I got to it when I could.)

That is I think the single most frequent reason for failure. I had a witches brew of glyphosate and Grazon, Remedy and Tordon left over and sprayed one area that had a mixture of grasses and other weeds, there were a couple horse nettles in the mix. Everything has died except the nettle. The leaves have holes in them and are ugly looking, but they still are flowering.

That's the biggest problem with spraying. I go after one weed and find that other weeds have not even sprouted yet. If I wait then it is to late to kill others. If I do it year after year, trying to get them all, I get a build up and kill out all the clover. Spot spraying would be the best if I had that much time.

 

[celestina farm]

I had a problem with horsenettle in a hay field I took over. That next spring I sprayed Forefront R&P It did an excellent job of killing it. Plus it is a residual so it takes care of the the ones that have not come up yet. I have sprayed the field for 2 springs now and I am nettle free. It is very safe only has 7 day grazeing restriction thats because it has 2-4-d mixed in already. Milestone is the same thing without 2-4-d, they are both made by Dow. I hate to sound like a salesman on this but it worked wonders for me. It's not cheap but it was worth it to me to get rid of that stuff it also is labeled for tropical soda apple.