Horse rescue

[rross]

D.R.~
You say that you're riding a Zann Par Bar gelding, how is he bred? Have you been around any others?
I'm riding a couple Z.P. Bars and I really like them. They have a tremendous atttitude. I have a Zann Par Bar bred stud that I'm using on some King Ranch bred mares, first colts will be this spring. High hopes!

 

[flaboy+]

The best cowhorse I ever saw was 1/2 cracker 1/2 QH. It was a dayworker who had his act together. Best dang $125/day (including dogs) the ranch spends. True cracker blood is very difficult to come by and they're being snatched up by cattleman and cracker enthusiasts. I'm using my Zann Parr Bar QH gelding. He's been on cows for a few years, but only recently saddled and working up a sweat every day. It would take 8 grand before I'd even ponder selling him. Ranch using horses are getting real expensive. Last Adam' Bull sale I went to, they had 2 ranch using horses and sold 1 of them for almost 8 grand. I guess the weekend warriors have come to the conclusion that cowboy broke ranch horses are untouchable as compared to the alternative. On a side note, the other hands I work with could care less about blood and papers. They say blood and papers don't put cows in the pens. I suppose I can't argue that point.

I'm told by a few folks who know a little more about cracker ponies than I, that they in fact did come from Spanish Barb blood if that helps.

You got that right D.R. A good trained Cracker horse is hard to come by down here. Those that have them don't want to sell them. I did opt for Reg QH only because I used to use them for cutting. The lady was surprised when I told her I didn't need any papers. ;-)

 

[D.R. Cattle]

The best cowhorse I ever saw was 1/2 cracker 1/2 QH. It was a dayworker who had his act together. Best dang $125/day (including dogs) the ranch spends. True cracker blood is very difficult to come by and they're being snatched up by cattleman and cracker enthusiasts. I'm using my Zann Parr Bar QH gelding. He's been on cows for a few years, but only recently saddled and working up a sweat every day. It would take 8 grand before I'd even ponder selling him. Ranch using horses are getting real expensive. Last Adam' Bull sale I went to, they had 2 ranch using horses and sold 1 of them for almost 8 grand. I guess the weekend warriors have come to the conclusion that cowboy broke ranch horses are untouchable as compared to the alternative. On a side note, the other hands I work with could care less about blood and papers. They say blood and papers don't put cows in the pens. I suppose I can't argue that point.

I'm told by a few folks who know a little more about cracker ponies than I, that they in fact did come from Spanish Barb blood if that helps.

DR, I breed, show and sell show horses, and I cna't aree with you more. Papers and breeding don't mean squat for true "working horses". You can breed and great race horse or barrel horse but a great cow horse or trail horse is in a horse not the breeding.

JMO
Alan

It all boils down to saddle time and an environment that God made horses for.

 

[D.R. Cattle]

D.R.~
You say that you're riding a Zann Par Bar gelding, how is he bred? Have you been around any others?
I'm riding a couple Z.P. Bars and I really like them. They have a tremendous atttitude. I have a Zann Par Bar bred stud that I'm using on some King Ranch bred mares, first colts will be this spring. High hopes!

Paternal Grandsire is Zann Par Bar. He's also got Two Eyed Jack on the top. On the bottom he's got Tinker Steel, Poco Bunita Jane, Bar's Bert and Diamond Lynn. I've only been around one other. It was a distant cousin and I wasn't overly impressed, but I'm a cowboy. I like short Mack trucks and his cousin was bred up by showpeople who wanted tall horses. My gelding has quite an attitude too. He loves to learn and please his master. He's got a lot of cow in him. The fellers I work with get a kick out of him. When we push a herd the ole bulls like to be lazy and always follow behind. I'll ride up on them and Rusty will pin his ears and reach out for a beef sandwich. Almost as good as a bullwhip? I bought this horse from a lady who didn't know what she had. He was an unbroke 5 year old stud and I gelded him right away. I'm beginning to regret that move. Best of luck breeding some King into your horse. I would venture to say they'll be top notch.

 

[D.R. Cattle]

FlaBoy I thought you might enjoy this. I think Dun had asked about cowponies too.

The ancestors of today's Cracker Horses were introduced into what is now Florida as early as 1521 when the Spaniard, Ponce de Leon, on his second Florida trip, brought horses, cattle and other livestock. Such introductions were continued well into the next century by other Spanish explorers and colonists and by mid-1600 cattle ranching and horse breeding was well established. Feral herds started from escaped and liberated animals and both Spanish horses and cattle were quite numerous and common to many areas of Florida long before it became a United States possession in 1821.

First the Indians and later the Pioneers began to use the Spanish Horses. They were hardy, had adapted well to the Florida climate and environment and excelled as working cow ponies. Although best known for their talents at working cattle, Cracker Horses were frequently pressed into service as buggy horses, workstock, and in many instances, were the only horse power for many family farms well into the twentieth century. They are indeed a vital part of Florida's Agricultural Heritage and are very deserving of a place in Florida's future.

The genetic heritage of the Cracker Horse is derived from the Iberian Horse of early sixteenth century Spain and includes blood of the North African Barb, Spanish Sorraia, Spanish Jennet and the Andalusian. It's genetic base is generally the same as that of the Spanish Mustang, Paso Fino, Peruvian Paso, Criolla and other breeds developed from the horses originally introduced by the Spanish into the Caribbean Islands, Cuba and North, Central and South America. The free roaming Cracker Horse evolved over a long period of time through natural selection. It was molded and tempered by nature and a challenging environment into the horse that ultimately was to have a large part in the emergence of Florida as a ranching and general agriculture state.

Cracker Horses got their name from the Cracker people who used them and the Cracker People got their name from the loud cracking whips they used in herding and penning the wily Spanish cattle. Over the years, Cracker Horses have been known by a variety of names. Some of them are: Chickasaw Pony, Seminole Pony, Marsh Tackie, Prairie Pony, Florida Horse, Florida Cow Pony, Grass Gut and others.

Cracker Horses are from 13.5 to 15 hands in height and weigh from seven hundred fifty to over nine hundred pounds. They are known for their unusual strength and endurance, herding instinct, quickness and fast walking gait. A good percentage of them have a running walk and some have a single-foot gait which, in true Cracker dialect, is often referred to as a "Coon Rack." Cracker Horse colors are any color common to the horse, however, solid colors, roans and grays are predominant.

It is fortunate that several Florida ranchers continued to breed Cracker Horses on into the late 20th century and there still remains a nucleus of them sufficient to assure their preservation as a unique Colonial Spanish breed. It is also fortunate that in 1984, John Law Ayers of Brooksville, who started his Cracker Horse herd in 1930, donated the horses to the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services that provided the start of their Agricultural Museum and Withlacoochee State Forest Cracker Herds. In 1985, Friends of Paynes Prairie, Inc. purchased six Ayers mares and a stallion and donated them to the Florida Park Service. These horses were released on the Paynes Prairie State Preserve where free roaming Cracker Horses once numbered in the thousands.

In addition to the Ayers and State owned herds, other small Cracker Horse herds still exist. Now, with the advent of the Florida Cracker Horse Association, Inc. and its FCHA Registry, other interested persons have Cracker Horse breeding programs and others plan to as breeding stock becomes available.

 

[flaboy+]

Thanks D.R. I have seen that before. Maybe I should have stuck with a Cracker rather than the idiot I got. He has charged me in a open paddock twice and yesterday he charged my GF twice. He came out of a herd and doesn't like the fact that he is by himself. I have to keep the filly away from him. He has only been here three days and I have a sore neck so I can't work him too much yet. I have done some exercises with him the past two evenings. Fortunately my GF listened to me and she was able to turn him and she watched him like I told her to watch a bull. I guess I will get the vet out to take his boys. I don't need his attitude.

Maybe Alan will read this a give me some input also.

 

[Alan]

Thanks D.R. I have seen that before. Maybe I should have stuck with a Cracker rather than the idiot I got. He has charged me in a open paddock twice and yesterday he charged my GF twice. He came out of a herd and doesn't like the fact that he is by himself. I have to keep the filly away from him. He has only been here three days and I have a sore neck so I can't work him too much yet. I have done some exercises with him the past two evenings. Fortunately my GF listened to me and she was able to turn him and she watched him like I told her to watch a bull. I guess I will get the vet out to take his boys. I don't need his attitude.

Maybe Alan will read this a give me some input also.

Baseball bat, 357, or shot gun.

Just kidding but I would start with removing the brains in the back end and as he is healing up move him around the paddock with a lounge whip, not much just enough to help him heal. You should be able to keep him off you with a whip to the ground, or if needed across the neck.

If you have a round pen this would be better, if you don't have a round pen maybe you have some panels you can use to put in the corners. Round pens are used so the horse just follows the fence lines and never seems to be able to run away from you. If you have corners the horse will follow the fence into the corner and stop get confused or try to go over it, so panels in the corners will help, it doesn't need to be round just have a flow to it. If you have enough panels to spare try to make a 60' round pen. Then, after he has healed well run the cr@p out of him get in the alpha postition, watch for chewing and licking when he does this, he's telling you you're winning a he'll start being submissive. Be careful this is only a win in one battle, there will be more every day for a while.

But I would geld him first, make sure you work him light as he heals for a couple of weeks and then work him in a round pen until he becomes submissive. If he starts to stumble a lot and run with his nose to the ground you have gone too far and you need to back off before he drops, make sure you move him at a walk until he is cooled off so he doesn't tie up.

A couple of other items that will make him respect you more. When he is in hand and does something rude, like strike at you or try to bite, back him up, just get in his face, yanking on the lead and walking straight into him, I usually end up yelling too, forcing him to back up at a pretty good pace. Not too far because going fast and a distance can hurt him, so fast and maybe 15 to 25 feet. Then let him stand there and think about it, he should start to chew and lick, reward him if he does. I have a colt who is now two, but when we were waging battles, which seem quite often, he had the knack of turning around while I was backing him. I had to adjust myself to stay infront of him, a couple of times I was holding the lead and ended up about 2 feet off his butt, in a bad spot.

When your working him, allow him to come to you, you want him to enter your space, if you enter his space he is allowing you in and he is the alpha for that moment. To get a horse to come to me, I start in the round pen and after working them, I turn my body so my side is facing them, in a non threating manner. If I'm turned facing them I'm the preditor and putting them on alert, if I then step toward them I'm on the hunt and forcing them to move. So if I want to move them and become the alpha, I turn and face them and move a step or two to their hip, moving toward the hip gives the an open door to move forward, if I moved toward their head they would turn and bolt. So after we have worked and he is licking and chewing I turn sideways to them and hold my arm out lower my head in a relaxed position and softly call him in. It may take a few days, but always be soft and gentle when you catch him up, reward him for being caught, a scratch on the wethers or what ever. If he turns toward you and looks at you it's working, if he takes his attention off you and looks at something else move him out again and start over. When he takes a few steps toward you and then stops give him a few minutes to think about it and then take a couple step away from him this should draw him in closer. Always work him with a lounge whip when you can trust him more drop the whip when you want him to come to you.

Sorry for such a long post and telling you stuff you may have known already. Feel free to PM me or post anything else to help clearify this.

Hoped I helped, don't let your girl friend get hurt, an untrained stallion is a dangerous thing. I worked with a guy years ago that was leading out a "trained" Arab stud and for no known reason grabbed him and ripped off all the flesh on right shoulder and breast. I saw a young girl working a TB stud, was done and putting on his halter he grabbed her by the arm and picked her up over his head and threw her to the ground. He was fast enough that he did this three times before we could get to her and run him off. She was okay he was not.

Good luck,
Alan

 

[flaboy+]

Thanks Alan for all the info. I'm sure much of his current problem is he is herd bound and I am keeping him by himself and he is not used to it so he gets mad.

I finally found a lounge whip today so I guess I don't have to take the bull whip in with me tonight :lol: I don't have a round pen and his turnout area is really to big so I guess I will get some cattle panels moved in there so I can get his attention. He has too much room right now. I was able to make him walk up and down the fence last night using just pressure and finally got him to let me approach from the hip. Once I get my hands on him I can pretty much do what I want. I can make him back, turn right, turn left, I can actually lounge him out to about 4 feet on a rope and he has had no training other than halter and a little lead. I sacked his head a little too. He is head shy although I know he was never mistreated.

So I will continue to work with him for a couple more weeks and then call the snips in. I just don't need the aggravation of a stud. I need a cow horse. I will keep ya posted on his progress probably by PM so I don't waste others time.

 

[RebelCritter]

noooo, dont go to PM, I am enjoying following this as well!

 

[flaboy+]

noooo, dont go to PM, I am enjoying following this as well!

I will start another thread to track this expedition. Look for flaboys challenge. ;-)

 

[Alan]

Flaboy,

It doesn't sound as he is as bad as I assumed he was. If you are getting hands on in a large turn out I bet he comes around pretty quick. Sound like he has some brains should be a good horse.

Good luck and do keep us posted.

Alan