i bought the lot (17) of angus/gert and 3 needed back hoof trimming. the cow that had the worst looking back feet is fine, but one is really gimpy now and prefers to lay down...staying close to the rest but not real active. just got them today and this IS my first rodeo...the vet said this one wasn't too bad, "no rotation" . anyway, i'm wondering if she needs a few days to "get back on her feet", literally. Never seen this done before today, and from a human perspective, the lying on the side part after being put in a head gate after being transported in a 40 foot trailor would probably be a little traumatic in itself...so i guess after all this is ...does it take a day or 2 to get rid of the "soreness"???thanks
hooves trimmed...limping now...normal or not?
- Thread starter fishgirl4
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RanchManager
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HI,
I posted this to your first posted, but it was buried so deep I thought you wouldn't see it. So here it is again:
Based on the limited information you have provided, I would NOTsuspect feed (i.e. excess carbohydrates/protein) or feed contamination (i.e. ergot). If that was the case I would expect the issue to show up in the front feet as well (laminitis). If it was one or two feet on one cow I might suspect it was due to an injury (an injury inspires a natural increase in blood flow for healing; this blood flow brings additional nutrients to the localized limb and thus you see an increase in hoof growth). Does the outside of the outside rear-foot toes want to grow underneath the foot? ( it is hard to spot without actually tying back the foot and looking underneath) It sounds like a classic case of corkscrew foot. It is becoming an all too common malady in the Angus breed, a genetic defect where the toes' bone (primarily the outside toes on the hind feet) actually start tilting inward. the whole structure actually starts to tilt, bone, coronary band, etc. and you get a toe growing down and inward. This causes discomfort and the limb responds as if experiencing an inury (increased blood flow) and thus long toes. The outside toe will wind up growing faster than it can wear down if you are pasturing on pasture with deep soil the hoof wall will wind up growing underneath the foot instead of wearing off. Once the toes' hoof wall grows underneath the foot, it harbors and conceals manure and dirt. Trapping detritus between the hoof wall and the sole of the hoof/toe. In short time this leads to a foot abcess. Cows with this condition will often start to show it around four years old and it will start to get more severe by the time they are six. The cows can continue to raise calves, but I would sell them for beef. If kept you will have to trim the hind feet at least twice a year depending on your conditions. You WILL have to tie the hind feet up and trim off the hoof wall that will want to grow out and over the bottom of the foot. Just trimming the ugly, long toe tips off will not suffice. Next time you see your vet ask him/her about it. If they are not primarily a large animal vet you might get a funny look. If they are you should get an, "Oh yeah, let me look into that."
Sounds now like your vet is aware of the possibility of a genetic "rotation", Corkscrew foot we call it.
I guess my first thought is, " limping is not normal." Don't mean to sound like a wiseacre, but you are right to be concerned. Keep following your instincts. I've been down this road with a group of genetically related cows we purchased (Angus x) . We still have some of them in our herd, but we are sure not to keep any of their calves for replacement heifers (I don't want to keep those genetics around). We have kept the original cows around because they raise incredible calves and they all go for beef so the issue is not an issue for these cows offspring. However, it is still a concern for our operation. Anything that adds extra labor hours is a concern. These 3 - 4 cows we still have around require trimming twice a year. We work the herd twice a year so we are sure to tie up each hind foot of each cow and trim off the excess horn (hoof wall is actually horn/protein) that tries to grow out and under the outside of the outside of each hind toe in this case. Sometimes one or two of them limp afterwards and sometimes not. We usually see the limping for three or four days. It is most likely caused by bruising of the sole. After trimming, the previously protected sole, will start taking more pressure and sometimes bruise. The soles eventually harden and the cow walks normally for the next six months (in our conditions).
If you are experiencing what I have described above (a conformation from your vet would be prudent) then I would advise getting used to restraining your cows in a chute, tying up the hind feet and learning to trim them properly. If that is not in the cards for you then I would really, really recommend that you find some new cows. Again, although what you descibe sounds all too familiar, before you go through and great stress, herd, or financial changes make sure that what you are dealing with is what I am describing by consulting a good, large animal vet.
Good luck!
I posted this to your first posted, but it was buried so deep I thought you wouldn't see it. So here it is again:
Based on the limited information you have provided, I would NOTsuspect feed (i.e. excess carbohydrates/protein) or feed contamination (i.e. ergot). If that was the case I would expect the issue to show up in the front feet as well (laminitis). If it was one or two feet on one cow I might suspect it was due to an injury (an injury inspires a natural increase in blood flow for healing; this blood flow brings additional nutrients to the localized limb and thus you see an increase in hoof growth). Does the outside of the outside rear-foot toes want to grow underneath the foot? ( it is hard to spot without actually tying back the foot and looking underneath) It sounds like a classic case of corkscrew foot. It is becoming an all too common malady in the Angus breed, a genetic defect where the toes' bone (primarily the outside toes on the hind feet) actually start tilting inward. the whole structure actually starts to tilt, bone, coronary band, etc. and you get a toe growing down and inward. This causes discomfort and the limb responds as if experiencing an inury (increased blood flow) and thus long toes. The outside toe will wind up growing faster than it can wear down if you are pasturing on pasture with deep soil the hoof wall will wind up growing underneath the foot instead of wearing off. Once the toes' hoof wall grows underneath the foot, it harbors and conceals manure and dirt. Trapping detritus between the hoof wall and the sole of the hoof/toe. In short time this leads to a foot abcess. Cows with this condition will often start to show it around four years old and it will start to get more severe by the time they are six. The cows can continue to raise calves, but I would sell them for beef. If kept you will have to trim the hind feet at least twice a year depending on your conditions. You WILL have to tie the hind feet up and trim off the hoof wall that will want to grow out and over the bottom of the foot. Just trimming the ugly, long toe tips off will not suffice. Next time you see your vet ask him/her about it. If they are not primarily a large animal vet you might get a funny look. If they are you should get an, "Oh yeah, let me look into that."
Sounds now like your vet is aware of the possibility of a genetic "rotation", Corkscrew foot we call it.
I guess my first thought is, " limping is not normal." Don't mean to sound like a wiseacre, but you are right to be concerned. Keep following your instincts. I've been down this road with a group of genetically related cows we purchased (Angus x) . We still have some of them in our herd, but we are sure not to keep any of their calves for replacement heifers (I don't want to keep those genetics around). We have kept the original cows around because they raise incredible calves and they all go for beef so the issue is not an issue for these cows offspring. However, it is still a concern for our operation. Anything that adds extra labor hours is a concern. These 3 - 4 cows we still have around require trimming twice a year. We work the herd twice a year so we are sure to tie up each hind foot of each cow and trim off the excess horn (hoof wall is actually horn/protein) that tries to grow out and under the outside of the outside of each hind toe in this case. Sometimes one or two of them limp afterwards and sometimes not. We usually see the limping for three or four days. It is most likely caused by bruising of the sole. After trimming, the previously protected sole, will start taking more pressure and sometimes bruise. The soles eventually harden and the cow walks normally for the next six months (in our conditions).
If you are experiencing what I have described above (a conformation from your vet would be prudent) then I would advise getting used to restraining your cows in a chute, tying up the hind feet and learning to trim them properly. If that is not in the cards for you then I would really, really recommend that you find some new cows. Again, although what you descibe sounds all too familiar, before you go through and great stress, herd, or financial changes make sure that what you are dealing with is what I am describing by consulting a good, large animal vet.
Good luck!
thanks for all the info...the vet is a large animal guy...the long toes were just on the back and were curling up and maybe a little inward...a little blood after the trim... not a whole lot of funk in there, which was good.., the vet said he trims a "fair deal" (not show cows.)..so i'm hopeful i didn't make a huge financial mistake....she might be my first to get culled down the road but i thought i would give the girl a chance before she gets a one way trip to town...still gimpy today but keeping a close eye on her...she is also supposed to calve in january , so maybe she's a little tired too
TexasBred
Well-known member
fishgirl4":ox0bhe2s said:
It's not uncommon for a cow to limp around for a day or two after a good close trim. Since you've already bought them time will tell what the problem actually is or was. Best of luck to you.
i meant there was not really any thing in there...and no he did not give her any antibiotics...will keep watching her...the only problem is i don't have any working facilities yet ...i'm working on my plans now...they don't need working til spring so i thought i had a little time to get my headcatch and all that ...no other way to really get a good look at whats going on...unless you have a suggestion ...maybe a blow dart...
smallrancher
Well-known member
No, it is not normal to limp after a "good close trim". Although it does happen, it does mean that your vet made a mistake, and cut into the corium. This does not mean that it won't get better, but it also may not. I am trained in corrective hoof trimming, and I get a little ticked when people say that it is normal to get blood or have limpers. An animal that is correctly trimmed should walk much better on her way out than her way into the chute. By the way any of you out there that don't know what your doing, or have someone else who doesn't know what they are doing trim your cattle's feet, you are not doing any good, only harm. A common misconception is that the feet are long so you need to shorten them by taking off the front. WRONG. Wrong PERIOD. You trim (and correct) the feet by taking off the bottom, and that in turn makes the front shorter(think about the shape of the hoof). If you only take off the front, you (or your "vet") have only made the hoof shorter and not corrected the problem.
Sorry for the rant, this is a sore spot for me.
Good Luck
Sorry for the rant, this is a sore spot for me.
Good Luck
cypressfarms
Well-known member
I'm about to show my ignorance here, but we've never had any cow that had to have their hooves trimmed. I can only remember one bull that we had the vet trim the hooves on, and he was sold shortly after that. I've been around cattle working/owning for over 25 years now - granted that time was as a "hobby" cattleman with no more than 50 to 75 head at any one time.
Is this a regional thing??? I always try to learn something everyday, maybe today is the day for hoof trimming class for me.
With the horses, yes, the farrier makes routine trips - but with the cows - this is a new one for me...
Is this a regional thing??? I always try to learn something everyday, maybe today is the day for hoof trimming class for me.
With the horses, yes, the farrier makes routine trips - but with the cows - this is a new one for me...
cypressfarms":1md1wprc said:
It's pretty rare for any of our cows or mature bulls to need a hoof trimming. Most of the time an animal needs its hoof trimmed is if its a show animal that getting increased amounts of feed (concentrates). With the extra nutrition and energy being consumed more nutrition is being sent to all parts of the body, including the hooves. In turn, the hooves begin to grow faster than the animal can naturally wear them down. Besides that, most of the cases I have seen that a mature animal needs a trim involves something wrong with the growth of the animal's foot.
At least that is my take on it.
Ryan
Workinonit Farm
Well-known member
Ryan":11hjwvz2 said:
Same here. My cows have never needed their feet trimmed.
Cows at the dairy farms that I know, get their hooves trimmed almost regularly due to the type of footing they spend their time on as well as their dietary differences from pastured beef animals.
In my experience it is primarily show animals and dairy animals that have needed trimming.
Katherine
