Hoover Dam or his sons

[jscunn]

Went to visit a friends place today. Was extremely impressed with his Niagara calves, bulls, and bred heifers. I thought they were the best sire group at his place today. The bred heifers were extremely impressive, probably best bred heifers I have seen in awhile. The Niagara's were the class of the group. Made me a believer, gonna use him this fall. consistently big volumed, deep bodied, docile heifers. His other sire groups were good but the Niagara's were stamped with a special look to them.

 

[Luckiamute]

Went to visit a friends place today. Was extremely impressed with his Niagara calves, bulls, and bred heifers. I thought they were the best sire group at his place today. The bred heifers were extremely impressive, probably best bred heifers I have seen in awhile. The Niagara's were the class of the group. Made me a believer, gonna use him this fall. consistently big volumed, deep bodied, docile heifers. His other sire groups were good but the Niagara's were stamped with a special look to them.

The one thing that has prevented me from pulling the trigger and ordering S S Niagara semen is his terrible $EN EPD value. It is in the bottom 5% of the breed at -$28. Seems like his females will be the hard-doing type and will need extra groceries to maintain body condition, especially as first-calf heifers. Does anyone have experience with how Niagara's females do once in production? How do those first-calf heifers do and did they breed back quickly or were they thin and slow to re-breed?

 

[CattleMan1920]

Hoover dam daughter. She's bred to Bubs Southern Charm, settled first try, excellent feet, no complaints.

https://youtu.be/m48HrWMNhGs

 

[Redgully]

Hoover dam daughter. She's bred to Bubs Southern Charm, settled first try, excellent feet, no complaints.

https://youtu.be/m48HrWMNhGs

Very nice, one of the best females you've posted on here in my opinion.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Hoover dam daughter. She's bred to Bubs Southern Charm, settled first try, excellent feet, no complaints.

https://youtu.be/m48HrWMNhGs

Very nice, one of the best females you've posted on here in my opinion.

Thank you. It's hard to go wrong with Hoover Dam.

 

[jscunn]

Luckiamute,
These bred heifers were on grass since winter and were fat, anything smaller framed or earlier maturing would have been too fat to calve. I think $en is overblown personally.

 

[Stickney94]

Luckiamute,
I think $en is overblown personally.

Perhaps Angus.org has a back history chart of EPD values but my memory seems to think that HD had a pretty poor $EN 3-4 years ago. Definitely -$ and I think well below average. Lately it's been positive +$ and about breed average. Not to get into a debate into how the EPD is calculated, but more of a reminder that the data has its limitations and can shift over time.

The HP EPD is one that I'd agree with from my own experience and can see why that EPD is lower. I will say that perhaps the HP is a result of HD's calves growth. I've come to wonder if our HD heifers were simply over conditioned when we were trying to breed them. The HD heifers I have had settle are great cows. My oldest are 6 years old.

I'm also using HD again this year heavily.

 

[VaCowman]

Just looked back in my AI Sire Directory archives and found a 2013 ABS directory and it showed Hoover Dam with a -29 for $EN. 2017 he was at +5, 2019 at+1. I'd say compared to the "main sires" of today, he's above average fleshing ability. Compared to main sires of 2013 era, probably a little less impressive on fleshing ability. Sure wish I would've stocked up on some of those sires from 2013 directory! Hindsight...

 

[CattleMan1920]

Just looked back in my AI Sire Directory archives and found a 2013 ABS directory and it showed Hoover Dam with a -29 for $EN. 2017 he was at +5, 2019 at+1. I'd say compared to the "main sires" of today, he's above average fleshing ability. Compared to main sires of 2013 era, probably a little less impressive on fleshing ability. Sure wish I would've stocked up on some of those sires from 2013 directory! Hindsight...

Which sires in particular?

 

[CreekAngus]

Hoover dam daughter. She's bred to Bubs Southern Charm, settled first try, excellent feet, no complaints.

https://youtu.be/m48HrWMNhGs

Very nice, one of the best females you've posted on here in my opinion.

this is how cattle are, I thought she was the worst you've ever posted. Thought she was shallow, narrow hipped and lacked capacity. She appears young and could develop more or could throw incredible calves beyond her own phenotype. I gave one of mine a pass this year, a bit ruddy, smaller framed, incredible pedigree and the thing tossed out a daughter who is beautiful and the dam is a great mother........stupid cows.

 

[CreekAngus]

Just looked back in my AI Sire Directory archives and found a 2013 ABS directory and it showed Hoover Dam with a -29 for $EN. 2017 he was at +5, 2019 at+1. I'd say compared to the "main sires" of today, he's above average fleshing ability. Compared to main sires of 2013 era, probably a little less impressive on fleshing ability. Sure wish I would've stocked up on some of those sires from 2013 directory! Hindsight...

Which sires in particular?

Kesssler's Frontman, HA Program, Final Product, VRD, Stockman, 878 and In Focus. That was a good year for ABS.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Hoover dam daughter. She's bred to Bubs Southern Charm, settled first try, excellent feet, no complaints.

https://youtu.be/m48HrWMNhGs

Very nice, one of the best females you've posted on here in my opinion.

this is how cattle are, I thought she was the worst you've ever posted. Thought she was shallow, narrow hipped and lacked capacity. She appears young and could develop more or could throw incredible calves beyond her own phenotype. I gave one of mine a pass this year, a bit ruddy, smaller framed, incredible pedigree and the thing tossed out a daughter who is beautiful and the dam is a great mother........stupid cows.

Fair enough Creek, but this Hoover Dam daughter is out of a very nice dam, and her Granddam is a consistent producer, she's massive, right at 2000 pounds, the Granddam has Basin Rainmaker P175 in her pedigree.

I could be dead wrong, but my bet is that a Hoover Dam/Bubs Southern Charm cross is going to create either a daughter that I can breed again to a carcass leading sire, or if it's a bull, he will most likely deliver when it comes to producing high quality steers.

Only time will tell if this cross works out. I would say it's a safe bet that there are not too many out there right now with this combination.

 

[Redgully]

Hoover dam daughter. She's bred to Bubs Southern Charm, settled first try, excellent feet, no complaints.

https://youtu.be/m48HrWMNhGs

Very nice, one of the best females you've posted on here in my opinion.

this is how cattle are, I thought she was the worst you've ever posted. Thought she was shallow, narrow hipped and lacked capacity. She appears young and could develop more or could throw incredible calves beyond her own phenotype. I gave one of mine a pass this year, a bit ruddy, smaller framed, incredible pedigree and the thing tossed out a daughter who is beautiful and the dam is a great mother........stupid cows.

Rather than being narrow in the hips i see width in the pins. Her depth of heart girth is impressive, as is her top line. I feel she will finish developing into a fine cow. I would like to see more width in the thurl but i like her feet.

 

[VaCowman]

Just looked back in my AI Sire Directory archives and found a 2013 ABS directory and it showed Hoover Dam with a -29 for $EN. 2017 he was at +5, 2019 at+1. I'd say compared to the "main sires" of today, he's above average fleshing ability. Compared to main sires of 2013 era, probably a little less impressive on fleshing ability. Sure wish I would've stocked up on some of those sires from 2013 directory! Hindsight...

Which sires in particular?

Kesssler's Frontman, HA Program, Final Product, VRD, Stockman, 878 and In Focus. That was a good year for ABS.

I agree 100%, but I would add Gardens Wave, Foresight and Protege to the angus list. Ribeye in the Hereford corner, and Beef Maker in the Simmental corner.

 

[elkwc]

Personally I like the progeny of Hoover Dam I've seen in both PB and commercial herds. I put him on the list with Final Answer and In Focus. When I tour herds I pay attention to the sire of the proven cows in the herd. I've seen several nice productive sons and daughters of the above mentioned sires. More than most of the other AI sires of today and the past. We are using a grandson of Hoover Dam currently. Far from perfect but overall a solid bull. Personally I would take this heifer in a heart beat.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Personally I like the progeny of Hoover Dam I've seen in both PB and commercial herds. I put him on the list with Final Answer and In Focus. When I tour herds I pay attention to the sire of the proven cows in the herd. I've seen several nice productive sons and daughters of the above mentioned sires. More than most of the other AI sires of today and the past. We are using a grandson of Hoover Dam currently. Far from perfect but overall a solid bull. Personally I would take this heifer in a heart beat.

Even Hoover Dam grandsons and granddaughters bring a lot to the table.

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

Very nice, one of the best females you've posted on here in my opinion.

this is how cattle are, I thought she was the worst you've ever posted. Thought she was shallow, narrow hipped and lacked capacity. She appears young and could develop more or could throw incredible calves beyond her own phenotype. I gave one of mine a pass this year, a bit ruddy, smaller framed, incredible pedigree and the thing tossed out a daughter who is beautiful and the dam is a great mother........stupid cows.

Rather than being narrow in the hips i see width in the pins. Her depth of heart girth is impressive, as is her top line. I feel she will finish developing into a fine cow. I would like to see more width in the thurl but i like her feet.

Interesting. I read her as plenty wide in her hooks, but narrow in her pins (something I see in the vast majority of Angus these days). I suspect that the picture does her no justice....

 

[CattleMan1920]

this is how cattle are, I thought she was the worst you've ever posted. Thought she was shallow, narrow hipped and lacked capacity. She appears young and could develop more or could throw incredible calves beyond her own phenotype. I gave one of mine a pass this year, a bit ruddy, smaller framed, incredible pedigree and the thing tossed out a daughter who is beautiful and the dam is a great mother........stupid cows.

Rather than being narrow in the hips i see width in the pins. Her depth of heart girth is impressive, as is her top line. I feel she will finish developing into a fine cow. I would like to see more width in the thurl but i like her feet.

Interesting. I read her as plenty wide in her hooks, but narrow in her pins (something I see in the vast majority of Angus these days). I suspect that the picture does her no justice....

Did you click on the video? I shot her from multiple angles. BR and TT saw her close up. She's young, born 9/2017. Bred right now to Bubs Southern Charm. She settled first try. As I said earlier, both her dam and Granddam are big, deep bodied, solid producers. Maybe Hoover Dam will moderate the mature size somewhat, only time will tell.

 

[Bright Raven]

Rather than being narrow in the hips i see width in the pins. Her depth of heart girth is impressive, as is her top line. I feel she will finish developing into a fine cow. I would like to see more width in the thurl but i like her feet.

Interesting. I read her as plenty wide in her hooks, but narrow in her pins (something I see in the vast majority of Angus these days). I suspect that the picture does her no justice....

Did you click on the video? I shot her from multiple angles. BR and TT saw her close up. She's young, born 9/2017. Bred right now to Bubs Southern Charm. She settled first try. As I said earlier, both her dam and Granddam are big, deep bodied, solid producers. Maybe Hoover Dam will moderate the mature size somewhat, only time will tell.

Boot Jack is correct. The video does not do her justice. She looks much better on the ground. IMO she is a very nice heifer.

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

Rather than being narrow in the hips i see width in the pins. Her depth of heart girth is impressive, as is her top line. I feel she will finish developing into a fine cow. I would like to see more width in the thurl but i like her feet.

Interesting. I read her as plenty wide in her hooks, but narrow in her pins (something I see in the vast majority of Angus these days). I suspect that the picture does her no justice....

Did you click on the video? I shot her from multiple angles. BR and TT saw her close up. She's young, born 9/2017. Bred right now to Bubs Southern Charm. She settled first try. As I said earlier, both her dam and Granddam are big, deep bodied, solid producers. Maybe Hoover Dam will moderate the mature size somewhat, only time will tell.

I did, and I stand by my evaluation. In fact, my assessment of her phenotype is almost exactly opposite of Redgully's. Furthermore, I made no comment on her pedigree or fertility or age.