Hobby Farmers

[frenchie]

I have found this thread absolutely hilarous, reading how important some of the larger operations think they are and how mad some of the little bitty guys are getting. I do agree there has been an explosion of questions that were not well thought out. But think about it you couldn't ask Cattlemen you know cause to many laughter related injuries .

PS I think if the rookies would ask a question and not make 20 post a day to the board with just verbage they would get a lot more respectful response until they learned. Learn a lot more listening

Couldn't agree more.

IMHO...I don,t think that a person with just a few cows is any less a cattleman than those with a lot of cows...everyone has to start somewhere ..experience with livestock comes with time.

 

[CKC1586]

My observation has been that often some folks need to belittle others in order to make themseleves feel big. Why the big fuss over a label? Does it really matter? Isn't the common ground here that we are stewards of our land and livestock? Does it matter what the acreage or number of critters is?
Everyone has to start (or restart) somewhere and it is great to get a little advise on the journey. I have found this site informative and helpful as well as entertaining. I appreciate the kindness expressed to me and try to get thick skinned to the few negatives. I don't agree with everything that gets put out there and wouldn't expect everyone to agree with me. But there is no need to get mean with folks.
May you all have a great day and best wishes for a successful calving season! :cboy:

 

[Craig-TX]

You're a hobby farmer if you have more BS on the inside of your boots than on the outside.

Craig-TX

 

[txag]

thanks to everyone who replied to my question.

i don't think size of operation (number of cows or acres) is the qualifier for being a hobby farmer. i also don't think just starting out is an automatic qualifier. i think it's more of an attitude, mindset, and approach to the business.

as i stated in the initial post, i was asking because it seems that so many people get defensive when called a hobby farmer that i was wondering what everyone's definition is and why it's such a bad thing. after reading the responses & "things that make you a hobby farmer", it seems there's probably a little bit of hobby farmer in all of us.

 

[Triple D]

Wow txag, you got it going this time. Strike and retreat? ;-)

I'm being forced into retirment, a little sooner than I'd like. I'm young to be retiring, it's a political thing. I ain't finished building my house yet. I'll put what little I got in storage and most likely be living in a travel trailer till I can get my house finished. I ain't complaining. I think I'll be happier than I am now living in a nice home, being in town. I'm still building pasture. I've sold all my cows and let someone else run theirs on my place now. That'll stop come next spring. I'll have to make some money off some calves just to make ends meet. Like the post below, I'll have to start with stockers. I ain't ready to start making hay yet. So what does that make me folks? A hobbier? I don't know. Don't much care. I will say this, I'm a little scared.

 

[Triple D]

Woops, sorry txag. I guess we was posting at the same time.

 

[CattleAnnie]

Wow...miss a few days reading the posts on here and come back to a real hot discussion.

Guess after reading the list that I might be a hobby farmer after all. No money in cattle up here anymore and couldn't help but call #219 Frankencow (but man, she earned that title).

Oh well, heading into town today to post job resumes anyway. Gotta buy groceries for the kids and vaccines for the spring whether the calf check covers it or not. Curious all the same...there was a comment about buying vaccines from the veterinarian. We can't buy them anywhere else but from a licenced veterinary facility. Is that different in the states?

Take care.

 

[dun]

Curious all the same...there was a comment about buying vaccines from the veterinarian. We can't buy them anywhere else but from a licenced veterinary facility. Is that different in the states?

Take care.

Most vaccines we can get either over the internet or from the local feed store. Some antibiotics and repro drugs are about all that have to come through a vet.
Something I always thought was funny was the hard time the druggies seem to have getting needles. I just get them at the feed store with no problem. In CA we used to have to sign for them, but it wasn;t any big deal.

dun

 

[certherfbeef]

Something I always thought was funny was the hard time the druggies seem to have getting needles. I just get them at the feed store with no problem. In CA we used to have to sign for them, but it wasn;t any big deal.

dun

If the guys at the elevator don't know you, you have to have ID and sign for the needles. There is a sign that says you have to be over 18.

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

Annie,

I've never named any of my cows either and, at any rate, most of the time this cattle business is way too much work for me to think of it as the dreaded H-word, but I have made one exception. Since you have already reserved the name "frankencow" , I've decided to belatedly christen my most ornery cow as "Grendeline". My #1 project for the summer is getting her penned and actually loaded onto a trailer for a ride to town. I've vowed that she has eaten her last mouthful of hay on my place! If she's smart she'll load up --- if she chooses not to, well old AZ will have a starring role as Beowulf sometime this summer.

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

There are a few things here that you can buy at the local co-op like Ivomec, needles, Blackleg vaccinations etc, but most of the stuff you need to get from the vet.
I figure if you don't have 250 head, you are probably a hobby farmer. That's about how many head I'd figure I'd need to eke out a living as a cow/calf producer full time. One fella who used to work here had 150 head and still managed to work three days a week although he really looked like crap during calving season. I've missed work because of trouble with my cows. I've also stayed up all night with a cow having problems and still showed up for work on time in the morning. I expect to make a small profit every year but if I was doing it for the money right now, I would have quit. :roll:

 

[D.R. Cattle]

There are a few things here that you can buy at the local co-op like Ivomec, needles, Blackleg vaccinations etc, but most of the stuff you need to get from the vet.
I figure if you don't have 250 head, you are probably a hobby farmer. That's about how many head I'd figure I'd need to eke out a living as a cow/calf producer full time. One fella who used to work here had 150 head and still managed to work three days a week although he really looked like be nice during calving season. I've missed work because of trouble with my cows. I've also stayed up all night with a cow having problems and still showed up for work on time in the morning. I expect to make a small profit every year but if I was doing it for the money right now, I would have quit. :roll:

You can make a living with a lot less than 250 head in my neighborhood. Suppose it all depends on what your inputs are costing you.

 

[El_Putzo]

There are a few things here that you can buy at the local co-op like Ivomec, needles, Blackleg vaccinations etc, but most of the stuff you need to get from the vet.
I figure if you don't have 250 head, you are probably a hobby farmer. That's about how many head I'd figure I'd need to eke out a living as a cow/calf producer full time. One fella who used to work here had 150 head and still managed to work three days a week although he really looked like be nice during calving season. I've missed work because of trouble with my cows. I've also stayed up all night with a cow having problems and still showed up for work on time in the morning. I expect to make a small profit every year but if I was doing it for the money right now, I would have quit. :roll:

You can make a living with a lot less than 250 head in my neighborhood. Suppose it all depends on what your inputs are costing you.

Same here. I know several people making it on less than 100 cows. Some of them also raise row crops as well, with some being fed to the cows and some being sold for extra income.

 

[memanpa]

guess i am a hobby farmer!!
only running 12-15 head in az
30-40 in ok
shut down a 500-750 head operation several years ago (health)
what i fail to see is what difference it makes who or what you call yourself or others call you as long as it is not to late for dinner!!!
i personally think it makes no difference!!
i just look at my bank balance at the end of the year, did i make or lose money!!!
if i lose money what did i do wrong?
if i make money what did i do right!!
just my humble opinion

 

[Caustic Burno]

You might be a hobbyRancher if your mail man has a walking route.
You might be a hobby rancher if you put on your big hat to drive your Z71 to the feed store to see if you can talk to a cattleman.

 

[Craig-TX]

I figure if you don't have 250 head, you are probably a hobby farmer. That's about how many head I'd figure I'd need to eke out a living as a cow/calf producer full time.

You can make a living with a lot less than 250 head in my neighborhood. Suppose it all depends on what your inputs are costing you.

Same here. I know several people making it on less than 100 cows. Some of them also raise row crops as well, with some being fed to the cows and some being sold for extra income.

Some interesting observations can be made if you look at a lot of the old timers that are gone now, who made it on 25, 50, or 75 head. One, their obituary said that they "farmed and ranched…" Two, they did farm and ranch. Three, as has been discussed here before, they didn't make a living at it. They found a way to live off what they made. Their expectations for a reasonable standard of living were miles away from most of ours. No a/c, older model car/truck, modest house, etc. They might be mostly gone but we can all still learn a lot from them.

Craig-TX

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Yep! All depends on what YOU want for a standard of living. Like those "expert" financial "advisors" try to tell you...try to retire at almost same level of income you had when you were working.

All depends on what your needs and goals are. If your goal is to have a $1 Mil house on a small acreage running 50, 100, 250 head of cattle...well, NO you won't ever get out of debt.

In our case, our new fencing, pens, corral cost more than our entire property did including a VERY minimal house...we got a deal on the property... You make $$ off of your grass, cattle, or other livestock...not off of your house, truck, or cars. A $10K truck that RUNS everytime will pull that trailer just as good as a $50K truck. Our house is to sleep in, eat in, and use the bathroom. Our farm/ranch operation is where we "live." Our guests visit us outside and/or in our modest separate office building...and, when they see our small house with a tin roof...well, they know where our priorities are... :cboy: As in, some "darn good looking livestock"!

 

[Texan]

At one time, I was of the opinion that some of the others are---if you didn't make your living from farming or ranching, then you were a hobby farmer. Guess I've changed my opinion some over the years. It no longer seems as unusual for someone to hold a job in town just to make ends meet. I don't consider that any differently than the larger ranches that rely on hunting income to help pay some bills. Now, that seems to be most of them. Either way, it is merely a diversification that allows people to keep doing what they want to do.

Hobby farmers that run cattle need to always bear a few things in mind. What you do for your hobby creates a huge negative impact on some people's livelihoods. Just because of the sheer numbers. All of the small producers amount to huge numbers of cattle. And the resulting huge demand on inputs. Small producers influence the price of inputs for full-time ranchers by bidding up the price on land, pasture rent, labor, feed, fertilizer, equipment, custom work and on and on. Small producers do this when they have discretionary income to spend that doesn't have to create a return on investment. Hard for a rancher to compete with that kind of "management." So, you can see where that creates a problem for the rancher that either needs to expand or just wants to hang onto what he's got. If somebody is outbidding him for lease land or other inputs with money from another source, the future looks pretty tough.

Then there's the supply side and the everpresent old cattle cycle. We all contribute to the downturn with excess production, but often, when the market takes a downturn, the first ones to bail out and jump ship are the hobby guys. The ones who finally figure out that they're not gonna get rich, after all. The hobby guys sell out by the thousands, or tens of thousands, and this huge oversupply of cattle now drags down the market for the rancher who doesn't have the luxury of bailing out, even if he had the desire. The rancher is then stuck with this predicament for years to come. Not very pleasant being in the cattle business during those days. Many of you will never experience that. Count your blessings.

After reading this thread, I guess I'm even more confused than ever about what a hobby farmer is. Lots of good comments here. I'm still pretty sure that the mere fact of owning a few cows does not make someone a cattleman. Nor does the fact of owning a lot of cows make someone a cattleman. At least, not in my eyes. And I'm still unsure what it is that makes the hobby farmer so defensive about being referred to as a hobby farmer. In any case, if you've got to have a hobby, having cattle has got to be the best hobby there is!

 

[Wewild]

Texan.....Well said.

 

[Jake]

very well put Texan :clap: