hip locked

[Nite Hawk]

Howdy!
On Saturday my Piedmontese cow went into labor, and I checked that the feet were in the right position--hooves pointing down, so I knew it wasn't breech, so figured she has done this a couple times before so I walked off, and did some work around keeping an eye on her in the field..
I went back out to check and she had the head out and it was covered in a real tough placenta, so I broke it and pulled it off, and left the cow to work on it some more..
I came back later, and she had the calf out to the hips, and normally once the front end is out the rest slides out not too much problems. I had one hip lock back a bit in time, but a bit of a pull and it came out.
Well this one wasn't coming out, and the cow stood up and was walking around with the calf stuck at the hips and the calf was bawling at being hung upside down. I pulled and it wasn't going no where. Tried to turn it, was slippery and no go..I reached in, and this cow is " as wide as a D8", and there was plenty of room in there except I could feel it was stuck at the hips. Other than that this cow has lots of room.. none of this "blood pressure cuff" syndrome like so many times when going in after a calf. I could feel that was were the stuck was- at the hips, but it seemed there still was room where that calf should come out. we tried figure 8 ing the pull chains and they just slid off..
Finally the cow laid down again and was trying to push. my son came out and lifted the calf body parallel to the ground and put some old hemp type rope on instead of the chains, and THOSE never slid anywhere. once the calf was parallel to the ground and a good hard pull and she came out..
Big WIDE WIDE heifer calf.
She is now up and doing great, took her a bit longer to get on her feet after the hard entrance, but doing fine now.
I was talking to one of the neighbors who came over to try and help, and he said you can have a cow drop 15 calves fine and then have one stick at the hips.. "It just happens". This cow was about 10 days over due, which is quite common in piedmontese to be over due by about 8 days or so, so basically not "over due" by Piedmontese standards.
I have never had one stuck at the hips this hard, like this before--- ever..
I talked to a friend who when I said it was stuck at the hips. she blurted out--"its a heifer-right!?" She said "bull calves never get stuck at the hips, it is always the head that causes problems in bull calves- only heifers get stuck at the hips"
The bull I used on this cow was supposed to be good on heifers, and I have a heifer that is due with this same bull, and she is as big as a "blimp", so I am concerned for her...
And good ideas if this heifer gets a hip stuck like the big cow?
I was told a horror story about a calf that got pulled in half with a pole calf puller that was hip locked.. I am not in the mood to have that happen if we have to use a pole puller..we used to use a pole puller on the dairy farms and never had anything like that happen before.. Has anyone ever heard of that happening??
any good ideas to unlock a slippery calf that is hip locked? never encountered one that was this locked up before..
thanks

 

[Bright Raven]

Thanks for that excellent report. No. Not had that experience but glad to read.

 

[cowgirl8]

Usually when we see that a calf's feet are large and labor has gone on too long and they were unable to get the head out, we don't try to pull by hand, but will go ahead and set up the wench. With flec sim in our cows, hip lock is more common than you'd want it to be. I hate finding a cow down with a calf out to the hips, dead calf and paralyzed cow...ugh...aint nobody got time for that. In flec sims, its usually a big bull calf that gets hip locked...its rare we ever have to pull a heifer calf, but it does happen..I'm always at the cow end of the pull so that when we get to the hips, I rotate as they pull....never pulled one in half unless its been dead a while. We have though had them suffer nerve damage that cripples them....We only use a spanner in the field. If we have the cow in the chute, we use part of the corral structure and can get a better angle with it for hiplock. I hate the spanner, and ours is one my husband made. Its really heavy, we've broken the store bought ones.
Just watch your heifer, we breed around 30 to 60 heifers a year to LBW angus and we still have to pull a few. As long as we have flec sim in the cows blood, we get whoppers. We'll get a string of big calves in our heifers and the one I worry about spits out a 40 pound calf...I'd say we have more disastrous hip lock problems out of cows because we keep our heifers at the house and can get them in the chute in a matter of minutes, whereas a cow wont get help until morning or evening, so if there is trouble, i'm not there until its too late...

 

[Supa Dexta]

-Bull calves get hip locked too
-have pulled them apart before, broken front legs and spine, but they never came right apart, but was a couple feet longer than it started out. It was dead to begin with- 147 lbs.
- once again I have no idea what she's^ talking about, making up names for pullers apparently.

 

[Son of Butch]

Howdy!
I was told a horror story about a calf that got pulled in half with a pole calf puller that was hip locked....
Has anyone ever heard of that happening?

I pulled the front legs off a calf once............... After the initial shock......... of What Have I Done?!?
Took several seconds for me realize the calf was mummified and long dead.
I could see a "horror story" arising from misinformation based off a similar event pulling a dead calf.

So no, I don't believe a live calf could be pulled in half, at worst the legs would separate from the body first.
Long ago I saw a guy snap the pole of a calf puller clean in half, but people tell me Simmental bulls are calving ease now.

 

[cowgirl8]

-once again I have no idea what she's^ talking about, making up names for pullers apparently.

Spanner...…………...google it

 

[cowgirl8]

-once again I have no idea what she's^ talking about, making up names for pullers apparently.

Spanner...…………...google it

LOL...you know, if i'm not 100% sure of something, i'll goggle it first and i'd sure not question someone with the intent of insulting them without googling first....And, who hasn't heard them called spanner?? You are in the cattle business aren't you?

 

[Son of Butch]

Regional words/expressions will vary from Canada to Texas.
"What we have here is a failure to communicate." - captain from Cool Hand Luke

 

[Supa Dexta]

Cattle? No I'm just here for the classifieds

I'd rather ask your wench, than google.

 

[True Grit Farms]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spanner
I did and I still can't figure out how a spanner will help you pull a calf?

 

[slick4591]

Pulled several Pied calves from heifers. When they get hip locked try twisting the calf. I have never had to do it, but read where people have success twisting. One of our problems on US born bulls is there are no EPDs that you can count on since the breed is relatively young.

 

[cowgirl8]

http://livestockconcepts.com/en/equipme ... nner-.html

 

[True Grit Farms]

http://livestockconcepts.com/en/equipment/10326-calf-puller-ratch-a-pull-breech-spanner-.html

That's what my calf puller looks like.

 

[cowgirl8]

http://livestockconcepts.com/en/equipment/10326-calf-puller-ratch-a-pull-breech-spanner-.html

That's what my calf puller looks like.

Technically, the spanner is what spans from the cow to the winch....so, when I say we don't use a spanner, but rather hang the wench to part of the corral post, we don't use a spanner but still use a wench......get it? I guess I could have said, we don't use the calf puller, but, we do use a puller....the wench...but its the spanner we don't use if the cow is at the corral..only use the spanner in the field. Good that I can educate you fellas on something....lol.... ;-)

 

[sim.-ang.king]

The spanner is the U shaped part that pushes against the back of the legs. Don't know how you would use the ratchet without the spanner or pole? Maybe we are not on the same page.

 

[cowgirl8]

The spanner is the U shaped part that pushes against the back of the legs. Don't know how you would use the ratchet without the spanner or pole? Maybe we are not on the same page.

We put the cow in the chute, catch her head and put a bar behind her, then squeeze her up tight so she cant go down. We put the chains on the calf's legs. With a tow chain, we loop it around post behind the cow, hook the winch to the chain, then hook the cable to the chains...We can get the best angle to pull the calf out. The spanner is called a spanner because it spans the distance between the cow and wench....the spanner is the shape of a T...

 

[cowgirl8]

This reminds me of the argument of calling mowing, shredding. I mentioned somewhere in a thread that I had been out shredding. I think there were several pages of how that's not even a thing.....but, how can it not be a thing when I've shredded for years. My husband shreds, my son shreds, heck, any time the shredder is hooked to the tractor, we shred. I cant remember who finally stepped in and said, that's what people in texas, or some areas, call it......

 

[sim.-ang.king]

I see what you're saying, sorry I asked.

 

[True Grit Farms]

UGA has a course that can teach you how to properly use a calf puller.

 

[Silver]

The spanner is the U shaped part that pushes against the back of the legs. Don't know how you would use the ratchet without the spanner or pole? Maybe we are not on the same page.

I've always called that the breechen. A spanner in my world is a wrench. But what I'm not understanding is what is this wench we are referring to?

We use a Dr. Frank's puller, have ever since I can recall. May be better ones, I can't say, but they do the trick for sure.

*edited for spelling*