IHman
Well-known member
Here is a pic of one of my bulls from Wiese & Sons in Manning, Ia. He is a WS Battle 1133 son out of WS Real Duchess cow.
Hereford Bull pic
- Thread starter IHman
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greenwillowhereford II
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He's long-bodied, and looks like he's in his work clothes.
iowahawkeyes
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Nothing too fancy, but will work well on those black cows.
Go Hawks! (Even though you're probably an ISU fan)
Go Hawks! (Even though you're probably an ISU fan)
IHman
Well-known member
Yes he is in his work clothes here. I dont really look at the bull as much as his epd's. Dont have to have a fancy bull to throw nice calves! Not an Iowa or ISU fan... Sooners all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bigbull338
Well-known member
he is a nice big thick bull.i like to see them in their working clothes.an he is carring some good weight.
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
When I read this post the first time, I decided to not comment at all. Why? Because there have been so many questions relating to "...what do you think of this bull?" - and "...critique this bull - my skin is thick. I can take it" - and comments such as these. And this is fine, because honest, serious criticism can be educational and helpful to a breeder, IF he really is not aware of the factors which are necessary for the successful combinations of traits and characteristics to produce a PROFITABLE "beef-making machine" (Cow or bull). If a beef breeder (producer) will take those criticisms to heart, apply the suggestions given to him in a pragmatic manner, and apply that knowledge toward acquiring a member of his herd with the PRIMARY GOAL being PROFIT at the bottom line - THEN the criticisms and suggestions of the Beef Forum Members can be a real benefit. If he just reads what is written and does not LEARN the lessons therein - he is wasting his time in requesting help in the first place, and the responders to his question are wasting their time in attempting to help.
Two thoughts come to mind in regard to these types of posts: I wonder if the owners of the animals pictured REALLY want to hear a comprehensive critique of their animal - or - if they want to have people brag on how great the animal LOOKS! And - if the owners of the pictured animals really UNDERSTAND the answers they read from the different posters on the Forum!
I don't really know the answers to these two thoughts, and therefore I have decided to merely give my Opinion of what I see on these two pictures of the Hereford Bull on this thread, and let the chips fall where they will.
My first comment is: these are NOT acceptable pictures to really analyze your bull.
There are several factors to be considered when selecting seedstock (bulls AND cows), and each breeder has his own criteria which he puts into play when selecting his herd additions, which must be decided upon according to the present herd genetics and requirements for profit. Hopefully, those criteria will be adequate for the resulting progeny to make a Profit for the breeder.
The BOTTOM LINE here is - what is required for the breeder to be able to capitalize on the information he receives from the many posters on this Forum?
KNOWLEDGE!
In My Opinion - this Hereford Bull presents himself as a rather long-bodied representative of a breeding bull, but not of sufficient PHENOTYPIC quality to be a satisfactory selection to improve a little better than average herd. This appraisal has been done, of necessity, by observation of the PICTURES presented ONLY!
He is lacking in Masculinity and bone size, is cow-hocked, has a short, sloping rump which is out of balance with the rest of his body, he lacks thickness in his hindquarters, is pinched in the heart girth and lacks spring of rib, which minimizes his body capacity. This is important not only for the steer calves he may produce, but in consideration of any replacement heifers which the breeder may decide to retain. He is lacking in overall body width from front to rear, which also precludes his progeny from presenting a desirable and profitable body, both from the standpoint of Terminal production and Maternal considerations. I will refrain from commenting that in the second picture he appears to be "buck-kneed", because I think it is the way he is standing.
He would have made a desirable "appearing" Feeder Steer - but whether he would have been as profitable as would be nesessary for producing a PROFIT is questionable.
His EPD's may be considered acceptable, but Phenotype, Functional Traits, and DNA results are part of the success team of seedstock selection. It takes more than just ..."How do you like the LOOKS of this bull?" Doing a [SEARCH] on the Internet can reveal untold ideas and suggestions for improving one's knowledge and awareness of "Beef Cattle Seedstock Selection-Genotype and Phenotype".
Given today's hundreds and hundreds of breeding bulls which are for sale, I think you can do MUCH better for a Herd Bull than this partricular one! A good bull is half of your herd. A POOR bull is your entire herd!
DOC HARRIS
Two thoughts come to mind in regard to these types of posts: I wonder if the owners of the animals pictured REALLY want to hear a comprehensive critique of their animal - or - if they want to have people brag on how great the animal LOOKS! And - if the owners of the pictured animals really UNDERSTAND the answers they read from the different posters on the Forum!
I don't really know the answers to these two thoughts, and therefore I have decided to merely give my Opinion of what I see on these two pictures of the Hereford Bull on this thread, and let the chips fall where they will.
My first comment is: these are NOT acceptable pictures to really analyze your bull.
There are several factors to be considered when selecting seedstock (bulls AND cows), and each breeder has his own criteria which he puts into play when selecting his herd additions, which must be decided upon according to the present herd genetics and requirements for profit. Hopefully, those criteria will be adequate for the resulting progeny to make a Profit for the breeder.
The BOTTOM LINE here is - what is required for the breeder to be able to capitalize on the information he receives from the many posters on this Forum?
KNOWLEDGE!
In My Opinion - this Hereford Bull presents himself as a rather long-bodied representative of a breeding bull, but not of sufficient PHENOTYPIC quality to be a satisfactory selection to improve a little better than average herd. This appraisal has been done, of necessity, by observation of the PICTURES presented ONLY!
He is lacking in Masculinity and bone size, is cow-hocked, has a short, sloping rump which is out of balance with the rest of his body, he lacks thickness in his hindquarters, is pinched in the heart girth and lacks spring of rib, which minimizes his body capacity. This is important not only for the steer calves he may produce, but in consideration of any replacement heifers which the breeder may decide to retain. He is lacking in overall body width from front to rear, which also precludes his progeny from presenting a desirable and profitable body, both from the standpoint of Terminal production and Maternal considerations. I will refrain from commenting that in the second picture he appears to be "buck-kneed", because I think it is the way he is standing.
He would have made a desirable "appearing" Feeder Steer - but whether he would have been as profitable as would be nesessary for producing a PROFIT is questionable.
His EPD's may be considered acceptable, but Phenotype, Functional Traits, and DNA results are part of the success team of seedstock selection. It takes more than just ..."How do you like the LOOKS of this bull?" Doing a [SEARCH] on the Internet can reveal untold ideas and suggestions for improving one's knowledge and awareness of "Beef Cattle Seedstock Selection-Genotype and Phenotype".
Given today's hundreds and hundreds of breeding bulls which are for sale, I think you can do MUCH better for a Herd Bull than this partricular one! A good bull is half of your herd. A POOR bull is your entire herd!
DOC HARRIS
IHman
Well-known member
When I made this post I did not ask for opinion or critique now did I? So why do automatically assume that I wanted your opionion?? I was simply posting pictures for others to view. Our calves have always sold well and have gone to the same buyer for the past 10 years so our bull/cow selection must not be as poor as you think, and they have said we have some of the best replacement heifers around. I will admit these arent the best pics but they were not taken with critiqueing in mind.
HerefordSire
Well-known member
IHman":2fmw5yi2 said:
Very good post. I am glad you stood up and spoke your mind. It is amazing how some posters think every photo is to be critiqued. By the way, the curly tail feather neck reminds me of Eureka. I have not seen this marking on any other bull before. Have you?
IHman
Well-known member
baxter78":8b0t7a4q said:
My point to having the same buyer was the fact that they(the buyer) like our feeders enough to keep coming back. These folks have been in the livestock business for many many years and are good farmers/cattleman, so for them to keep buying from us is a big compliment. Also I dont mind constructive criticism and know you can always learn from others. But.... as I stated I did not post these pics looking for opinion. Why do you folks on here assume that everyone that posts a picture is looking for opinion or critique? And as for me "going far" I think I have done pretty well for myself so keep those comments to yourself buddy, you dont know me!!
RD-Sam
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I'd say if your buyer keeps coming back, you must be doing something right. Some on here get a little too carried away with their opinions, and some don't even own cattle and give their opinions. :lol2: That said, I would just take any criticism with a grain of salt, and use the info given if you feel it may help you, if not, brush it off and go about your business as usual. :cowboy:
alexfarms
Well-known member
Pictures don't mean much and winning show ribbons doesn't mean much either. I have taken very good pictures of a bull and then in the next picture I take he may look bad. In doing ads, I have taken the opinion that NO picture is better than a poor picture. FAT makes an animal look more attractive in a picture or the show ring and getting a bull fat is never a good idea. This bulls calves may finish out great, I don't think anyone can tell from this pic.
IHman
Well-known member
Well thanks for the comments. Everyone makes some good points here. I am sure Doc H. made some good observations of this bull according to what he sees in the picture. As Alex said pcitures dont mean much, if your bulls/cows get you the results you are looking for that is all that matters wether it be in the feed yard or as replacements. I dont want to come across in a negative way & I hope I didnt offend anyone, just got my feathers ruffled a little. In regards tp Alex's comment about FAT, I recently bought some 1st calf heifers from Heartland Simmentals at the Waverly sale, many of the cows/heifers that came through there had big full briskets! Looked like they were in a fat yard, just dont understand why they would do that?
SRBeef
Well-known member
I think it is natural to assume that if you post a picture of a bull or other animal on this breeds forum that you are looking for feedback on the animal, as best as can be seen from the pictures posted.
I would be appreciative of everyone's comments, especially Doc's who took a lot of time to put down his thoughts.
If we only want positive compliments we should state that in the post and others will not waste their time trying to help us.
And just because someome makes a comment doesn't mean that person is necessarily correct, especially within the limitations of the pictures, as Doc clearly stated. In that caase just let the comments pass, but recognize and appreciate the effort put into ANY good-faith response. jmho.
I would be appreciative of everyone's comments, especially Doc's who took a lot of time to put down his thoughts.
If we only want positive compliments we should state that in the post and others will not waste their time trying to help us.
And just because someome makes a comment doesn't mean that person is necessarily correct, especially within the limitations of the pictures, as Doc clearly stated. In that caase just let the comments pass, but recognize and appreciate the effort put into ANY good-faith response. jmho.
