Hereford AI bull question

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redfornow

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Picked up a bred heifer and some other stuff
good sale pretty good prices from what I hear.



She calves in feb to feltons legend 242, so my question is what bull would you all choose for the second time around? I am getting ready to put in an order for semen and would like to get it all bought at one time.

I have an idea but was just curious which way you all might go.

I will be keeping replacement heifers, as I am still growing. All else will be sold at the yard or private sale.

And of course I am stuck on a hereford bull lol

MD
 
I'd say the possibilities are endless. Is there any certain qualities or bloodlines that you want to use? If not, I'd say the sky is the limit. You might wait and see what her Legend calf looks like and go from there. You may want to breed her back to him or some other Feltons bull.
 
lol Yeah I did leave that a little open ended didnt I?

I am interested in

feltons ozzie
p606 (but it seems everyone is using him right now)

I even thought of doing a little line breeding with devo but just havnt decided if thats the way to go.

As you can see I am open, just trying to pin myself down.
I am open to suggetions, no reason not to look at all the options.

MD
 
Here are some I like on paper. I have seen progeny of most of them, but not all. Most of them have avg or below avg bw and pretty decent carcass numbers. If I'm not mistaken they are all above average on Milk and M&G as well

BKR Triple Plus 73C 20L (P42194989)
BRL Call 100L (P42196682)
CS Boomer 29F (P23925982)
Feltons Legend 242 (P42016383)
Feltons Magnum 434 (P42228848)
Feltons Olaf 414 (P42223202)
Feltons Ozzie 492 (P42223168)
Gerber Watchfire 117F (P24029488)
Huth Stacked Deck M020 (P42314075)
JDB 517 Stewart H33 (P41005137)
KCF Bennett 3008 M326 (P42361822)
MW LLL Farley 24F (P23915161)
NJW 1Y Wrangler 19D (P23758169)
RF Postive Plus 73C (P23716883)
Remitall Online 122L (P42254372)

Hope these give you some to consider
 
We've used KCF Bennett H119 from ABS a good deal. Steers are very growthy, heifers are stylish also. We've retained one daughter from last year and will be retaining one from this year. We'll be ultrasounding ina couple of weeks os I'll have a better idea on the carcass then. The 4H/FFA leaders are interested in two of the H119 steers for market steers for next years fair.

dun
 
Thanks guys thats exactly what I am looking for.

I knew someone other than me had struggled with all the options. lol (thats most of the fun)

El putzo

I will look thru the list, again thanks so much

Dun,

Its always great to have "real world" experience, EPD's are great but I have never seen a calf delivered on paper.
So its great to hear whats really going down

MD
 
Well I looked up her EPD's and she looks not bad on growth EPDs, but that milk number is awful. Although, I have seen animals that have low milk numbers and milk better than high milking animals.

Here is my top 5 I would use if I had her:
1. DR World Class 517 10H
2. KT Top Secret 1030
3. KCF Bennett 3008 M326
4. KCF Bennett 774 N114
5. Feltons Meat Machine 442

:cboy:

Don't use P606 on any heifers. Never was proven on heifers. We used him, but I had some cows with bulls calves weighing 100 or more pounds. Also, Feltons Ozzie 492, first three calves out of Ozzie were weighing in at 113lbs., 124lbs., and 99lbs. Don't believe that 2.5 or waht ever it is birthweight on Ozzie. It Should be about 5.0 or more. Those three calves were out of heifers and I lost the one heifer. So take my advice, do use P606 0r Ozzie 492 on Heifers. EPDs aren't everything. Let me know just what bull you choose to use.

:cboy:
Take care!!!!!!
 
redfornow":1xt7l532 said:
lol Yeah I did leave that a little open ended didnt I?

I am interested in

feltons ozzie
p606 (but it seems everyone is using him right now)

I even thought of doing a little line breeding with devo but just havnt decided if thats the way to go.

As you can see I am open, just trying to pin myself down.
I am open to suggetions, no reason not to look at all the options.

MD
Click to expand...
Here's a option you should REALLY 'look at'! Decide what you want to do in your breeding program for the LONG TERM - not just calf-by-calf. Have a solid, planned program! Establish "GOALS" for the future and know what you wish to accomplish. Make hard decisions! In other words - Plan Your Work - Then Work Your Plan! If you bounce around from thought to thought - that is exactly what your herd will look like - BOUNCED AROUND - and so will your bank account!

There are articles - currently - in breed magazines and other periodicals and also on the internet (Try [SEARCH] "Beef Breeding Goals" or "Breeding Beef Cattle") which can offer MORE suggestions and ideas than you can imagine! Give it a SHOT!

DOC HARRIS
 
I wouldn;t be afraid to use VPI Limited Edition from Select Sires on any heifer that was big enough to breed. The one calf we had was tiny but grew well. BW of 55 lbs 42 day weight of 174, weaned at 152 day @ 554. But the cow had a lot to do with that.

dun
 
We had a VPI Limited Edition calf this year. He was out of a large blk angus/cross cow. He came quick but weighed 95#. He was long legged and narrow. He's really growing fast. Looks more like a simmi than a hereford.
 
Campground,

Who would you use?

Doc

Thanks for the advice, I am learning as you can tell. I know were I want to be just not how to get there yet. lol
It will take time but I am up for the trip.
My herd bulls M and M&G nubmers are average (thats what I want) but I have a group of heifers/cows that are all very close to the same EPDs as brooke better WW and YW but about the same problems in Milk epds. So I am looking for a sire that can up those scores without messing something else up.
Size for one as I am keeping heifers and want a 1200lb cow.

I am just coming with the times in the past, I went and looked at a bull if we liked him we bought him and used him and saw in a year. I can see this is better but much more time consuming. It would be easier just to throw the herd bull on them, and Damn the epds. lol

MD
 
Let me guess, BG1 is the other top pick. :lol:

This is my opinion on the deal. I may be all wrong in thinking this way, but I guess I'll live and learn: Genetics are like the IT World. Where I work, we have guys who know the ins and outs of the older programs, like ROSCOE, like the back of their hands. But that is old technology. There are newer, faster, easier ways of mainframe computing, if they would just take the time to learn and stop being stubborn. In much the same way, I think you shouldn't let your genetics program be held up because you can get a mediocre bull at a cheap price. Not saying there aren't a lot of good older bulls out there from the 80's and earlier, but Vindicator, now that is reaching way back.

With that being said, I don't really think it is a great idea to try every new bull out there, as I'm sure you'd get burned more often than not. I guess I'm somewhat of a risk taker in that I think if a bull has a proven pedigree and seems to exhibit the qualities of his ancestors, I wouldn't be afraid to try a bull that was in the 50%-60% accuracy range. Who knows, you may get lucky and find a magic cross from your cows and a 3-4 yr old bull. That would probably put you several yrs ahead in the "genetic game" than those guys who never pick a bull with less than 80%-90% accuracy.

Like I said, this is JMO, and I may be completely off my rocker and be out in newbie la la land. :?
 
El_Putzo":hw26i316 said:
Let me guess, BG1 is the other top pick. :lol:

This is my opinion on the deal. I may be all wrong in thinking this way, but I guess I'll live and learn: Genetics are like the IT World. Where I work, we have guys who know the ins and outs of the older programs, like ROSCOE, like the back of their hands. But that is old technology. There are newer, faster, easier ways of mainframe computing, if they would just take the time to learn and stop being stubborn. In much the same way, I think you shouldn't let your genetics program be held up because you can get a mediocre bull at a cheap price. Not saying there aren't a lot of good older bulls out there from the 80's and earlier, but Vindicator, now that is reaching way back.

With that being said, I don't really think it is a great idea to try every new bull out there, as I'm sure you'd get burned more often than not. I guess I'm somewhat of a risk taker in that I think if a bull has a proven pedigree and seems to exhibit the qualities of his ancestors, I wouldn't be afraid to try a bull that was in the 50%-60% accuracy range. Who knows, you may get lucky and find a magic cross from your cows and a 3-4 yr old bull. That would probably put you several yrs ahead in the "genetic game" than those guys who never pick a bull with less than 80%-90% accuracy.

Like I said, this is JMO, and I may be completely off my rocker and be out in newbie la la land. :?
Click to expand...

Ah you are in la la land proven genetecs beat a pretty flyer everytime. Most of these bulls are like fishing lures designed to catch "cattlemen". I prefer to run with the bloodlines that I know are Hereford. Post a picture of a better hereford and I will look at it, one you raised on grass not a flyer cow. I want to see a cow/ bull with working clothes.
 
Notice, I agreed with you about using proven genetics. Or maybe my definition is different. I'd say a bull doesn't need a 95% accuracy to be proven, maybe only about 75% is all I need to give me that warm fuzzy feeling. My point is, when running with the big dogs, you'll never be in the front of the pack if you use 30 yr old genetics!! Plus, if you're not at the head of the pack, the view is always the same. :lol: :lol:

I can see I'm going to have to be more patient with my replies. Everytime I come back to look at your post to see if I've addressed everything, you've edited it while I wasnt' looking.

One more edit. Just wanted to let you know, Camp, I'm sure what you are doing works for you, otherwise you wouldn't be doing it. I guess it's just the difference between us young, progressive thinking whippersnappers and you seasoned, set in your ways, veterans.
 
El_Putzo":2rqfg31v said:
In much the same way, I think you shouldn't let your genetics program be held up because you can get a mediocre bull at a cheap price. Not saying there aren't a lot of good older bulls out there from the 80's and earlier, but Vindicator, now that is reaching way back.
Click to expand...

I have to agree. I get a lot of warm fuzzy feelings when I hear the name Vindicator and I remember a lot of Vindicator daughters that I really liked; but when you look up the epds while he is a calving ease bull I would not hesitate to use on any heifers (top 20% for birth wt) and he is in the top 35% for REA, Vindicator is in the bottom 15% of the breed for weaning weight, bottom 5% for yearling weight, bottom 10% for fat, and bottom 5% for marbling (IMF). I am wary of really high growth EPDs because this is often an indicator of too high a mature cow size and I think the old bulls suffer in the EPDs from their use on small framed 1970s/80s cattle (though that supposedly is factored in to the programming); but Vindicator is so far off desirable on so many traits that I could not recommend Vindicator today. There are far too many other better options out there.
 
El_Putzo":rb7bca4c said:
Notice, I agreed with you about using proven genetics. Or maybe my definition is different. I'd say a bull doesn't need a 95% accuracy to be proven, maybe only about 75% is all I need to give me that warm fuzzy feeling. My point is, when running with the big dogs, you'll never be in the front of the pack if you use 30 yr old genetics!! Plus, if you're not at the head of the pack, the view is always the same. :lol: :lol:

I can see I'm going to have to be more patient with my replies. Everytime I come back to look at your post to see if I've addressed everything, you've edited it while I wasnt' looking.

One more edit. Just wanted to let you know, Camp, I'm sure what you are doing works for you, otherwise you wouldn't be doing it. I guess it's just the difference between us young, progressive thinking whippersnappers and you seasoned, set in your ways, veterans.
Click to expand...

Why would you not want to use 30 or more years of proven genetics while you can still get semen from these superior bulls. Well for the young progressive whippersnappers versus the old wore out's. Show me yours your neighbors Herefords that beat the Braxton's, Vindicators or Anhinga Lines. Show me grass fed cattle that are better. These are working cattle not show cattle, fads come and go with the flyers in the mail.
It amazes me still today how cattlemen chase fads. I'm looking for cows that put folding money in the blidfold. I put my lines out there for the board to see.


Braxton Bull I raised on grass sold to my neighbor.

58f3187a.jpg


Braxton Cow
nov71.jpg


Braxton Calf at 4 months
bd9ee8d0.jpg


Vindicator/Anginga Cow also the oldest girl in the herd
Jun26012.jpg


3 month old Vindicator/Braxton cross calf
b27636ed.jpg
 

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