I think I've only had 3 or 4 that I was absolutely not going to keep in the past 10 years. I have kept a few that were borderline but knew to watch them like a hawk and only had to pull 2 in which the calf was too big.
Heifer problems - what is it this year?
- Thread starter sunnyblueskies
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That's good! Because sometimes when they're out in the middle of the pasture, you still gotta help the calf latch on. Cubes are your friend
faster horses
Well-known member
You are right. In cold weather more nutrients go to the calf making the calf larger.
I don't think these cattle are getting enough mineral with what they have access to.
I would definitely put them on a loose mineral year-round, not a block.
Wondering if that might make the heifers weaker when trying to calve. I do know that the longer the you wait to pull a calf, the longer it takes her to breed back. We wouldn't wait more than an hour to help, and like gcreek says, observing thousands of births, you know when they need assistance.
You are much braver than me, breeding heifers to a Charolais bull.
Every year is different, for sure.
Good luck to you!
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
My first thought was the added BW due to cold AND lack of proper mineral. One cow could eat the whole mineral block and not get adequate mineral. Now, saying that, others in Canada claim they are not SE deficient like we are here in US. Lack of proper minerals can cause the cow to do a poor job of pushing - lacking energy or hormone level - I don't know, but affects their ability to calve properly.
Katpau
Well-known member
Birth weight is definitely affected by weather during the last months of gestation. Here in SW Oregon our winters are not particularly cold but they are usually very wet. From December to February, it gets down near freezing most nights, but daytime temperatures are usually in the mid 40's to low 50's. That is not cold by most people's standards, but those temperatures are often accompanied by rain and sometimes sleet, making it feel miserably cold. My birth weights would often average in the high 80's to mid 90's. Even most of the heifers had calves in the 80+ pound range, although it was extremely rare for one to need assistance. This winter was warmer than usual and we had almost no rain. It seemed like it was sunny and pleasant almost every day. I just calculated my average, and this year's average birth weight was 76.7 pounds. That is 11 pounds lighter than 2019, a colder year that included almost two feet of snow in February.
I know that won't explain your issue, since you said the calves were not bigger than usual. I have heard that the daughters of calving ease bulls will sometimes have smaller pelvic measurements and can thus have more difficulty with even an average size calf. That could be one of the dangers of using calving ease bulls for multiple generations.
I know that won't explain your issue, since you said the calves were not bigger than usual. I have heard that the daughters of calving ease bulls will sometimes have smaller pelvic measurements and can thus have more difficulty with even an average size calf. That could be one of the dangers of using calving ease bulls for multiple generations.
Is that 3 or 4 out of 30, or 3 or 4 out of a 1000?
We have always preg checked the heifers and found some that would never breed but never measured.
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sunnyblueskies
Well-known member
Yes they were at least 15 months +.
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sunnyblueskies
Well-known member
Why loose mineral instead of a block?
I'm good with telling if a COW needs help, but we seldom have any cows needing assistance. With heifers....... I seem a bit in a limbo. Since it's the first birth, one has to give a bit more time as the birthcanal simply isn't as stretched as a cows. But I think that's where I run into problems this year. I mean, my decision making as to when to step in, I don't want to pull a calf from a heifer too soon either.
This year is what it is I suppose. It's still colder now as what it should be and it has been a tough winter. Maybe it's a combination of everything which makes it difficult this year.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
It's watching for PROGRESS after the water sac is presented. If there is no progress for 30 minutes, check.
Or, if she is definitely in labor for 1 hour and nothing showing, check.
These are "guidelines". Your instinct is best. If she isn't dilated, you have to go slow.
Or, if she is definitely in labor for 1 hour and nothing showing, check.
These are "guidelines". Your instinct is best. If she isn't dilated, you have to go slow.
Yeah, I'm having a lot of cycle back failures on my small operation but I'm having a blast....who knows if they were too young or due to the fact I don't ween, ahahah. I do know one things for sure...the cattle will always take care of themselves first while taking advantage of my inexperience. My Ranch is a fun place, no schedules where everyone's happy and smiling and the cool wool is only covering my eyes.
You got me thinking, so I went back & looked at my records. 3 were from solid, proven lineages that left me stunned. But there has been a total of 8 out of 75 that I did not retain, based on the measurements & my vets recommendation.
faster horses
Well-known member
The short answer is: they can't get enough out of a block for their daily mineral requirements. They get tired of licking and walk away.
I can see that, but I have heard different things and don't know what to believe. I've been told cattle can over consume loose mineral. The excess is not utilized and becomes enriched manure. While the licking generates saliva and helps absorb and utilize vitamins/minerals. I don't know the correct answer.
wbvs58
Well-known member
Silver
Well-known member
There is no way for anyone to answer that without knowing what your cattle are short of and by how much.
faster horses
Well-known member
Sure. But it's not as technical as one would think. As a free service we have run grass samples, soil samples, water samples for folks in a big area and the results were all very similar. Only ONCE did we find a situation where we had to come up with a custom mix out of at least a hundred samples. What they have used for the past 25 years have suited them well. Cattle eat loose mineral in peaks and valleys, depending on the forage available. Hard to fool an old cow. You can use loose mineral as a tool as to pasture management. Most everyone who feeds it will notice when they change pasture, the mineral consumption drops because the forage is better. We have figured it for a year at a time and it usually comes out that they consumed the recommended amount. If you figure it for a week, or even a month it could make you pull your hair out. Quality and quantity of forage dictates mineral consumption. A study was done on block consumption and cattle had to do 2000 licks to get an ounce of salt/mineral. They won't lick that much. That was the point I was making. Getting their daily requirement helps a lot of things.
Silver
Well-known member
Something doesn't add up there. Or maybe they only tried one brand. I have hauled a lot of blocks out to the cows and can tell you that an ounce a day is about the lower end of consumption, and can go way up from there.
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sunnyblueskies
Well-known member
You have to throw the seasons though in the mix. The study must have been done in an area where you have pasture all year, or only over a limited time during pasture season.
I wonder how much difference there is in consumption between pasture season and the feeding season, add the cold temperatures etc.
Be interesting to see what the actual consumption difference would be.
Silver
Well-known member
I would have to think consumption would be based mostly on available phos in the environment, combined with normal salt cravings. Cows don't crave any other minerals.
faster horses
Well-known member
1oz per head per day. You probably didn't stick around to see how many cows licked on it or for how long.
