Heifer Growth?

[Stocker Steve]

The F1 heifers I retained were pretty consistent.
After a lot of rain and pasture the size range has grown quite a bit. I plan to cull one small one, but I also have a couple lunkers that are as big as my smallest cows :shock: .
What is the best point to estimate mature size?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Frame size can be estimated/calculated at any age. BUT ---- the old charts telling you WEIGHTS of frame sizes are wayyy off. Modern cattle can be so thick & deep, they can be a frame 5 and weigh as much as the old frame 8's.
A goal to have yearlings ready for breeding would be 60-65% of their mature body weight.
So, if your girls are in good BCS, would it be reasonable to calculate based on this??

 

[dun]

Ours have all of their frame by the time we wean their calf (about 2 1/2), don;t get their full weight till around 5

 

[Stocker Steve]

Ours have all of their frame by the time we wean their calf (about 2 1/2), don;t get their full weight till around 5

Do you cull many replacements for being too large?

 

[dun]

Ours have all of their frame by the time we wean their calf (about 2 1/2), don;t get their full weight till around 5

Do you cull many replacements for being too large?

Nope, the occasioanl 1600 lb cow doesn;t really concern me

 

[hillsdown]

My biggest/growthiest heifers from 2009 gave me the most calving issues this year. The ones that were a little less growthier had no problems calving and are now the same size as their contemporaries. Kind of threw me for a loop as I was thinking they would be my best calf crop ever. My smallest of the group as yearlings calved at 20 months of age and her calf hit the ground running, both are growing like weeds.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Ours have all of their frame by the time we wean their calf (about 2 1/2), don;t get their full weight till around 5

Do you cull many replacements for being too large?

Nope, the occasioanl 1600 lb cow doesn;t really concern me

The lunkers don't really stand out for height, but they are long and wide. I have 2 in this years group and one in the yearling group. I weighed a hay feed two year old and she was 1270# on all forage. A really big heifer to my eyes since I have a number of short 900 to 1000# ers.

 

[Nesikep]

I'm just starting to measure the chest girth of my calves every month, and I'm putting it all in a spreadsheet and graphing it, now until I have a couple calves get mature, i can't say much, but my 15 month old hiefer who is apparently 970# by her chest girth (which I think is 100# light), I'm expecting to mature around 1500. I am not concerned about the mature weight of an animal so much as it's mature frame size.. I like to keep it between 5 and 6.

 

[gizmom]

Good thread, one I have given a great deal of thought. Yearling size of our replacement heifers versus mature size - maybe our cows are getting too big? What is our optimum weight for our cowherd in our environment? Remember that not all environments are the same. Find what is most profitable for your operation. At yearling time, a replacement heifer is roughly 65% of her mature weight. Sometimes bigger is not better. If a heifer weighs 1200 - 1300 pounds at a year of age, they would weigh between 1850 and 2000 pounds as mature cows. At what weight do your cows offer the best returns? For our operation we want cows between 1150 - 1300 pounds, to acheive this our heifers need to be weighing between 750 - 850 pounds at a year of age. By doing a little figuring, I found that if a heifer weighs 950 pounds at a year of age she will mature at over 1450 pounds. If she weighs 1050 pounds, she will mature over 1600 pounds. Like I said, it's something to think about.

Gizmom
http://www.gizmoangus.com
http://www.gizmoangus.blogspot.com

 

[Nesikep]

what I'd like to research a bit is if there are certain animals (breeds, etc) who hare a greater percentage of their adult weight at 1 year old, as that would be a desireable trait if you ask me... for us, a nice weaning heifer is in the 675 lb range, so if they gain 2 lb a day after weaning, that is another 300 lbs, so you end up somewhere in the 1000 lb yearling weight range... now if she weighs 1500 mature, that would be nice

 

[JustSimmental]

We already know what breeds tend to be too large...... FB Simmental, Charolais, Limm, Maine,
some MG, Shorthorn, some of all of them and you have to cull based on genotype and phenotype.

To me when I hear that the packers want a larger carcass I just think to hell with them-- the packers will get what is best for me to produce or I would tell them to get in the cow-calf business.

Raise the "type" of cattle best suited for your particular environment and your pocketbook.

I don't know about you, but that 1800 lb Charolais cow is a loser for me as it doesnt matter that she weans a 750 lb calf, because this 1800 lb hay burner just cost me more $$ to maintain her for the last year and when all is tallied up--- I lost money on her.
That 1250 lb Angus cow that weaned a 650 lb calf cost much less to maintain over the last year and she made me money......

The packers will buy what they can get and will never turn down quality for quantity. Furthermore, I don't really care what they want unless they want to pay my cow maintenance costs on an annual basis.

JS

what I'd like to research a bit is if there are certain animals (breeds, etc) who hare a greater percentage of their adult weight at 1 year old, as that would be a desireable trait if you ask me... for us, a nice weaning heifer is in the 675 lb range, so if they gain 2 lb a day after weaning, that is another 300 lbs, so you end up somewhere in the 1000 lb yearling weight range... now if she weighs 1500 mature, that would be nice

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

You can have a 1000# frame 5 BCS 5 or a 1600# frame 5 BCS 5 - both the same HEIGTH. The 1000# will eat less than the 1600#. My herd fits into the frame 5, 1600# cows.
If you can visualize a 1000# frame 5 vs a 1600# frame 5, both in the same BCS, you get the picture.

 

[VanC]

Some say that a closed herd means no outside cattle. Some say it means no outside genetics, which would include AI. Are there different meanings for different people? I'm confused, but then that's not unusual these days. ;-)

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Just Ed needs to do a little checking Average Limousin cow will only weigh 1250 to 1400 lbs.

 

[JustSimmental]

Limmi cattle got a bad reputation back in the early 80's. Most of the folks that bought them in this area were red cattle people. This was a cross breeding nightmare with calving troubles, crazies, carcass merit 4ell, terrible weaning weights. Id like to see some again as I haven't seen a Limmi since 1985. Way back then there were no 1200 to 1400 lb Limmi cows and there is no imfluence of Limmi cattle in the herds in my area and even the mention of one makes ppl cringe and/or get a sour looking expression, especially the local large animal Vet.

Send pics -- I would like to see a few 1200 lb limmis that wean 625 lb calves annually....

JS

 

[TexasBred]

Limmi cattle got a bad reputation back in the early 80's. Most of the folks that bought them in this area were red cattle people. This was a cross breeding nightmare with calving troubles, crazies, carcass merit 4ell, terrible weaning weights. Id like to see some again as I haven't seen a Limmi since 1985. Way back then there were no 1200 to 1400 lb Limmi cows and there is no imfluence of Limmi cattle in the herds in my area and even the mention of one makes ppl cringe and/or get a sour looking expression, especially the local large animal Vet.

Send pics -- I would like to see a few 1200 lb limmis that wean 625 lb calves annually....

JS

www.brehmfarms.com

Have no idea what the weaning weight is but the "beef" is out of this world.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

How about show us some pictures of them high powered Simmentals your always a bragging about. I have as you to post pictures of them before you ain't done it yet. If you will do a little looking around on here you can see some pictures of my cattle i have posted. Most recent was a young bull purchased in the spring that will produce 1200 to 1400lb cattle.

The Simmis had way more calving problems than Limousin has ever had. That and there feet wouldn't hold them up more than three or four years around here. If you will post where you are located i can tell you were the nearest limousin breeder near you is so you can sneak by and take a look without anyone knowing you did it.

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

Just looked at the Brehms website and foud it funny that the black bulls look more like Limmies that the red one. Never had a real problem with Limmies. Crossed up well with our gerts. The only thing we experienced was a bit less girth with the Limmy cross calves but we used an old style Limmies, that still had the Blondish muzzle. I would use an old style Limmy before an old style Simmy ANY day.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Limmi cattle got a bad reputation back in the early 80's. Most of the folks that bought them in this area were red cattle people. This was a cross breeding nightmare with calving troubles, crazies, carcass merit 4ell, terrible weaning weights.

I bought some red horned limis cheap for stockering in the past. Dehorning and load out were both pretty exciting. Had to replace two gates and keep Grandpa out of the corral...

The ones I have now are totally different but I do see a lot of variation in the breeding stock being sold. The couple Limi cross cows I have are real watchful, both for people and for their calves. The couple F1 Limi cross heifers I have looked a little "unbalanced" and leggy as yearlings but now have filled out. I think you can make some good F1 cows as long as you keep the initial breeding season short.

Do you see some lines or breeds that are indifferent mothers?

 

[Nesikep]

I think you can safely play the middle of the road.. if you have a 1000 lb frame 5 cow, even if she raises a good calf, it's probably not going to have much meat on it, while a 1600 lb frame 5 may indeed be too big, but to my eye, I really like it when an animal shows you that it has steaks in it.

As for lines that are poor mothers.. definitely... we have a couple of them that I swear don't lick their calf until it's about 3 months old... I don't like them, but for now, they're giving me a calf every year and paying their hay bill