Head Butt Injury

[redcowsrule33]

I am trying to envision how a hit to the lateral side of the leg would cause a rupture in the artery on the medial side without the femur being fractured. Or do I have the story wrong.

 

[inyati13]

Della, hit the nail on the head. I almost lost her and still could. Severely lacerated femoral artery.

I hope all goes well, keep us updated please. Have never experienced something of this nature with my cattle in all these years.

Alison, thank you. I love my animals and I feel responsible. Judge that as I state it. The vet advised to not move her or disturb her at this time. He is coming back out Monday at 10. There is a large, now as big as a volley ball, pouch directly on the front side of the femur or thigh. When I saw her hit, it sounded like dropping a sack of potatoes. The femoral artery was likely impinged against the femur and lacerated.

 

[inyati13]

I am trying to envision how a hit to the lateral side of the leg would cause a rupture in the artery on the medial side without the femur being fractured. Or do I have the story wrong.

When the other heifer hit her, this heifer was in estrus. She had been jumping the other heifer. The heifer hit with a hooking blow. It landed to the front of the femoral area. The diagnosis was that she sustained arterial laceration in that area due to blunt force that impinged the arterial system against the femur. She is a stout heifer and there is almost certainly not a fractured femur.

PS: I have performed dissections of large ungulates numerous times. I have also done a complete skeletal reconstruction of a cow. I am aware that the main stem of the femoral artery that branches off the posterior dorsal aorta lies deep in the thigh. The blunt force injury most likely ruptured the branches of the femoral artery that penetrate the muscles of the thigh. Keep in mind that the diagnosis was based on observation. That such a large pocket of blood formed in that location and got so tight that she could not bring her right leg forward. I just made another observation of her and She is decidely improved. Swelling is decreased and her ambulatory function is improved.

 

[branguscowgirl]

I am trying to envision how a hit to the lateral side of the leg would cause a rupture in the artery on the medial side without the femur being fractured. Or do I have the story wrong.

Keep in mind, "blunt force trauma" can cause liver lacerations. kidney, bladder, heart and arterial damage without ever breaking a bone or opening the skin! (This is just a fraction of internal organs that could be injured.) I have not checked on cattle, but in people and most 4 legged animals, the femerol artery extends through the groin and flank very close to the surface. Easiest place to rupture it there. When you have tissue filling that quickly with blood, something is bleeding, a bleeding bad! If it does not stop, they can quickly bleed to death. The blood is no good to them when it is in the tissue. Hence the advice, do not give aspirin or anything that will reduce clotting factors. (you want it to form clots at the site of injury in this case.)
I am so happy that the bleeding has stopped! She is a lucky girl. :clap: Will be praying for her!

 

[inyati13]

I agree with Ken. Aspirin will allow it to bleed out more. It delays clotting. I have seen Hematomas wall themselves off into a hard lump and have to be surgically removed on humans. My concern would be if a major vessel ruptured and does not stop bleeding....... Cold will help the vessels constrict and reduce swelling. ie ice or even the hose water.

branguscowgirl, of all the responses, these underlined words you wrote yesterday, caught my eye. I had the same concern when I first saw the swelling and the way it felt when I examined her. I appreciate what Tux, Ouachita, and Ken provided and they were correct to think in terms of a muscle bruise and lessor bleeding. But I personally was more concerned. I went back and read your response. When I saw her yesterday morning, I got very anxious. This is a very nice heifer, I just bought her in September for $1,700.00 open. I AIed her myself to IN FORCE a Simangus SS semen. While losing $1700 was not my major concern, I wouldn't want to do it every day! I appreciate your help and all the others.

I just left her and she is improving. I have to confess, my mind was already figuring how I was going to dispose of her while I tried to sleep last night. I did not want to see around the panels of the crowding pen when I drove up at dusk this morning. When I saw her laying but head held up, a whole new day started!

 

[branguscowgirl]

So happy she is improving! She is hypovolemic now. (Low blood volume.) Watch for signs of anemia. Pale gums, tongue, or vulva. And signs of shock. You probably already know, but she could benefit from some electrolytes and lots of fluid. Any other animal in my barn would have an IV infusing! A bit harder with a cow though! Lol

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Good luck with your heifer Inyati. I know you worry over your gals and I hope she gets back to normal ASAP.

 

[HughesFamilyCattle]

Hopefully she heals up good. Are you going to the Hudson Pine Sale? I've never been to it but hope to go this year. Did the Phillips stop their partnership with them?

 

[inyati13]

Hopefully she heals up good. Are you going to the Hudson Pine Sale? I've never been to it but hope to go this year. Did the Phillips stop their partnership with them?

I have two of the Hudson Pine/Rocking P heifers. They are outstanding. I saw the info on the sale. That partnership has ended.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

I agree with Ken. Aspirin will allow it to bleed out more. It delays clotting. I have seen Hematomas wall themselves off into a hard lump and have to be surgically removed on humans. My concern would be if a major vessel ruptured and does not stop bleeding....... Cold will help the vessels constrict and reduce swelling. ie ice or even the hose water.

Nah, the bleeding will stop when pressure is equalized in the tissue. It can only expand so far in a closed space. It should contract, reabsorb and remodel to the point of not mattering for the heifer.


The real problem is the depression Inyati will need to deal with regarding this heifer if she notices the blemish in her reflection while drinking, or if Blue slips up and tells her, or if one of the other heifers begins making fun of her. This can be very hard on a young heifer's self esteem and he should really keep an eye on her. Probably discuss with her that her worth really isn't just in the color of her hide, but what's deep inside- marbling and ribeye size. If she is recently pregnant, this can be all the more difficult with the ping ponging of hormones.

Honestly Inyati, I think you should acquire outside assistance, a psychiatrist or counselor at the least. We know it wouldn't hurt Blue to unload a little as well. Please don't take offense to this, as I'm only trying to help. But, I've seen your threads involving women and am not sure if you would be best suited for this job involving such a fragile young heifer. The words used will need to be chosen carefully and craftfully, otherwise it could all go horribly wrong. Best regards, but give serous thought to involving a mental health professional.

I have no problem with the content of your message, it is your sincere opinions and every person has the right to express what ever occurs to them. I do have a problem with the way you state your message.

First, Do not use the adverb honestly to predicate a sentence. It implies that every other sentence is less than honest.

Second, Don't say "Please don't take offense"; it implies that you have the power to offend me. You do not. Taking offense has to occur in my head. It also implies that you are conflicting in your intent. You had to be of a mind that what you were about to say may be offensive or you would not have begun the sentence with that disclaimer. Thus, if you do not intend to offend, then have the good sense not to say it. It makes you look cowardly. Say what you want to say. Let me be the one who takes it however I wish.

I realize it is possible you will not understand the above.

Apparently it did strike a cord and that was not my intention. The "please do not take offense" was totally light hearted. I was playing off of your previous threads.

I will not kid you further. However, I will not change my linguistic style for you either. But something for you to consider.... your response reminds me of a guy I knew. He was maybe 5'10 and a buck 65 soaking wet. Though I'm sure wiry, he wouldn't have come out the victor in a last man standing competition poised among many college girl's soft ball teams. Yet, he constantly spoke of being an alpha male. I wish you luck with your intellectualism.

PS: I have performed dissections of large ungulates numerous times. I have also done a complete skeletal reconstruction of a cow. I am aware that the main stem of the femoral artery that branches off the posterior dorsal aorta lies deep in the thigh. The blunt force injury most likely ruptured the branches of the femoral artery that penetrate the muscles of the thigh. Keep in mind that the diagnosis was based on observation. That such a large pocket of blood formed in that location and got so tight that she could not bring her right leg forward. I just made another observation of her and She is decidely improved. Swelling is decreased and her ambulatory function is improved.

For the purpose of descriptive acuity, as it appears to be important in this thread, the femoral artery does not directly branch off of the aorta, but originates from the external iliac artery, which branches from the common iliac artery. The femoral artery does transverse distally in a medial course. Since location is inherent to anatomical nomenclature, describing the laceration as a femoral laceration, when it is believed to be a smaller branch of the femoral artery due to the location of the lesion, would be no different than calling it a laceration of the aorta. There is no posterior aorta in a bovine. Posterior and anterior descriptive terms are confined to anatomical discussions of the human body. Bovine and other ungulates or more broadly, all animal species other than humans are described in cranial and caudal terms. In addition, the term dorsal need not be applied to the aorta as it never courses ventrally.

Verily I say, if you would prefer to just write freely without worry of someone micro-inspecting your posts, feel free. Honestly, I will. :lol2:

Edit to add:
I hope she heals up nicely for you, it is very aparent that you care about your stock. The financial aspect adds to the misery when disaster strikes.

 

[inyati13]

Commercialfarmer.
In terms of the following that you wrote:
For the purpose of descriptive acuity, as it appears to be important in this thread, the femoral artery does not directly branch off of the aorta, but originates from the external iliac artery, which branches from the common iliac artery. The femoral artery does transverse distally in a medial course. Since location is inherent to anatomical nomenclature, describing the laceration as a femoral laceration, when it is believed to be a smaller branch of the femoral artery due to the location of the lesion, would be no different than calling it a laceration of the aorta. There is no posterior aorta in a bovine. Posterior and anterior descriptive terms are confined to anatomical discussions of the human body. Bovine and other ungulates or more broadly, all animal species other than humans are described in cranial and caudal terms. In addition, the term dorsal need not be applied to the aorta as it never courses ventrally.

Dorsal aorta is used in pure anatomy for the main branch of the aorta that supplies blood to the posterior or caudal area of invertebrates and vertebrates. Reference the greatest comparative anatomist in modern history, Alfred Sherwood Romer, The Vertebrate Body, 1962. Page 425. Fig. 308. Comparative Anatomy of shark, urodele amphibian, and rat. Dorsal aorta is used in all Orders of the Class Mammalia. I am assuming you are a student of anatomy as taught in the modern animal sciences programs. Different terms have been adopted for various reasons in both veterinarian and medical sciences. But in the style of Classical Comparative Anatomy, the term dorsal aorta is used in all classes of Vertebrate including the ungulates. I am a student of anatomy (in fact, I was the lab instructor for both invertebrate and vertebrate zoology labs under graduate assistantship) as it is taught in the biological sciences, that is how it has traditionally been used. I respect that in the discipline you studied it was taught differently.

You wrote:
Edit to add:
I hope she heals up nicely for you, it is very aparent that you care about your stock. The financial aspect adds to the misery when disaster strikes.

I sincerely appreciate the statement above. Thank you.

But you can do better than this nonsense:
I will not kid you further. However, I will not change my linguistic style for you either. But something for you to consider.... your response reminds me of a guy I knew. He was maybe 5'10 and a buck 65 soaking wet. Though I'm sure wiry, he wouldn't have come out the victor in a last man standing competition poised among many college girl's soft ball teams. Yet, he constantly spoke of being an alpha male. I wish you luck with your intellectualism.

BTW, I was not referring to your linguistic style. Writting is something entirely different.

PS: I don't know you, you don't know me. I don't know if you are male, female or hermaphroditic. I try very hard to follow some personal rules on a forum. One of those is avoiding getting into someone else's head.

PS2: You wrote: Posterior and anterior descriptive terms are confined to anatomical discussions of the human body.
My 9 year old neice knows better than that!!!! No offense intended. Look in a high school text book and you will see those terms are applied to all sorts of animals, not restricted to humans. Honestly, I think you did not mean this!!!

 

[redcowsrule33]

I didn't mean to start an argument over semantics and nomenclature. Now that I know it was the laceration of an artery and not the femoral artery it makes far more sense. I am well aware of the effects of blunt force trauma to internal organs but I didn't see how something as large and elastic as the femoral artery would rupture with something as large an inelastic as the femur in the way to protect it from a lateral blow.

'Nuff said on that part.

I am glad your heifer is recovering.

 

[inyati13]

I didn't mean to start an argument over semantics and nomenclature. Now that I know it was the laceration of an artery and not the femoral artery it makes far more sense. I am well aware of the effects of blunt force trauma to internal organs but I didn't see how something as large and elastic as the femoral artery would rupture with something as large an inelastic as the femur in the way to protect it from a lateral blow.

'Nuff said on that part.

I am glad your heifer is recovering.

I agree. Thanks.
I may have confused the issue on the direction of the blow. My mental image is that it hit the front of the thigh. But more important, is that the hematoma is to the anterior surface of the thigh. It is involving the flank in the process of swelling.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

So, how's she doing this morning?

 

[inyati13]

So, how's she doing this morning?

Larry, I am running late. Leaving right now. Will update from phone.

 

[inyati13]

So, how's she doing this morning?

Larry, I am running late. Leaving right now. Will update from phone.

Stable, cooler weather may help. I would like to see her drinking more and taking loose mineral.

 

[inyati13]

Over the hump. Next hump will be whether the lump becomes septic. I opened the crowding pen and let her out into the holding area for exercise and grass. Still keeping her alone.

 

[branguscowgirl]

Over the hump. Next hump will be whether the lump becomes septic. I opened the crowding pen and let her out into the holding area for exercise and grass. Still keeping her alone.

I am doing a HAPPY dance for ya! :banana:
Fingers crossed for NO infections!
Della

 

[branguscowgirl]

Commercialfarmer.
In terms of the following that you wrote:
For the purpose of descriptive acuity, as it appears to be important in this thread, the femoral artery does not directly branch off of the aorta, but originates from the external iliac artery, which branches from the common iliac artery. The femoral artery does transverse distally in a medial course. Since location is inherent to anatomical nomenclature, describing the laceration as a femoral laceration, when it is believed to be a smaller branch of the femoral artery due to the location of the lesion, would be no different than calling it a laceration of the aorta. There is no posterior aorta in a bovine. Posterior and anterior descriptive terms are confined to anatomical discussions of the human body. Bovine and other ungulates or more broadly, all animal species other than humans are described in cranial and caudal terms. In addition, the term dorsal need not be applied to the aorta as it never courses ventrally.


Dorsal aorta is used in pure anatomy for the main branch of the aorta that supplies blood to the posterior or caudal area of invertebrates and vertebrates. Reference the greatest comparative anatomist in modern history, Alfred Sherwood Romer, The Vertebrate Body, 1962. Page 425. Fig. 308. Comparative Anatomy of shark, urodele amphibian, and rat. Dorsal aorta is used in all Orders of the Class Mammalia. I am assuming you are a student of anatomy as taught in the modern animal sciences programs. Different terms have been adopted for various reasons in both veterinarian and medical sciences. But in the style of Classical Comparative Anatomy, the term dorsal aorta is used in all classes of Vertebrate including the ungulates. I am a student of anatomy (in fact, I was the lab instructor for both invertebrate and vertebrate zoology labs under graduate assistantship) as it is taught in the biological sciences, that is how it has traditionally been used. I respect that in the discipline you studied it was taught differently.

You wrote:
Edit to add:
I hope she heals up nicely for you, it is very aparent that you care about your stock. The financial aspect adds to the misery when disaster strikes.

I sincerely appreciate the statement above. Thank you.

But you can do better than this nonsense:
I will not kid you further. However, I will not change my linguistic style for you either. But something for you to consider.... your response reminds me of a guy I knew. He was maybe 5'10 and a buck 65 soaking wet. Though I'm sure wiry, he wouldn't have come out the victor in a last man standing competition poised among many college girl's soft ball teams. Yet, he constantly spoke of being an alpha male. I wish you luck with your intellectualism.

BTW, I was not referring to your linguistic style. Writting is something entirely different.

PS: I don't know you, you don't know me. I don't know if you are male, female or hermaphroditic. I try very hard to follow some personal rules on a forum. One of those is avoiding getting into someone else's head.

PS2: You wrote: Posterior and anterior descriptive terms are confined to anatomical discussions of the human body.
My 9 year old neice knows better than that!!!! No offense intended. Look in a high school text book and you will see those terms are applied to all sorts of animals, not restricted to humans. Honestly, I think you did not mean this!!!

WOW!! You guy's are intense! I am a Nurse, and I am having trouble keeping up with ya! Lol :roll:
I love it though! You are some smart cattlemen! :clap:

 

[inyati13]

I want to provide more detail on the subject of Vertebrate Anatomy. Commercialfarmer stated:

For the purpose of descriptive acuity, as it appears to be important in this thread, the femoral artery does not directly branch off of the aorta, but originates from the external iliac artery, which branches from the common iliac artery. The femoral artery does transverse distally in a medial course. Since location is inherent to anatomical nomenclature, describing the laceration as a femoral laceration, when it is believed to be a smaller branch of the femoral artery due to the location of the lesion, would be no different than calling it a laceration of the aorta. There is no posterior aorta in a bovine. Posterior and anterior descriptive terms are confined to anatomical discussions of the human body. Bovine and other ungulates or more broadly, all animal species other than humans are described in cranial and caudal terms. In addition, the term dorsal need not be applied to the aorta as it never courses ventrally.

The aortic arches standout in the focus of understanding the evolution of vertebrates. (The Vertebrate Body, Alfred Sherwood Romer, Page 427, Fig. 309) Alfred S. Romer was a pioneer in comparing the anatomy of the different taxonomic categories of Vertebrates. In vertebrates, the aortic arch exits the heart and branches to form two major trunks, i.e., one to the anterior of the animal and one to the posterior of the animal. In Vertebrate Zoology labs where representatives of each class of vertebrate ( pisces, amphibian, reptile, aves, and mammal) are dissected, the posterior running branch of the aorta forms the dorsal aorta. It becomes the caudal artery in the area of the pelvis or pelvic girdle as Romer often called it. This is the classical use of the anatomical term, dorsal aorta, in the biological sciences. Anatomy in colleges is often taught differently in the biological science cirriculum verus the animal science cirriculum. In the classical biological sciences, there is an effort to retain the same terms when studing each of the different classes of vertebrates. This was one of the efforts advanced by Romer so that the evolutionary development of each class could be compared, hence, the science of Comparative Anatomy. Every vertebrate course I took as a graduate student just to mention a few - Icthyology, ornithology, herpetology, mammalogy, comparative anatomy, vertebrate zoology, etc. - adhered to that concept.

In regard to the bolded reference to posterior aorta: In my reference to "posterior dorsal aorta" in an earlier post, I used the term "posterior" in the same way you would state, "the heifer was hit in the anterior thigh". It is a reference to where the artery is in a plane. A cow is classified in plane view as a bilaterially symmetrical mammal. It is common in anatomy to use anterior, posterior, dorsal, ventral, etc, in this plane of reference. The statement by Commercialfarmer that anterior and posterior are descriptive terms limited to human anatomy must be a mistake. Commercialfarmer: you must look at that again, you cannot possibly mean that.

Based on the post by Lucky_P, the location and structure I referred to as the "posterior dorsal aorta" would be the same as the "descending aorta" in veterinarian sciences. This is just like the use of the term cannon bone which in Comparative Anatomy would be the metacarpal bone.

PS: The aortic arches have other branches than those mentioned that have to do with pulmonary circulation, I avoided confusing my point by omitting mention of them.