Hay or grazing?

[gabby]

I'm hoping to only feed hay for about a month and then let the herd feed themselves by grazing on rye/ryegrass.

I've planted rye/ryegrass on harrowed land, plus one sod-seeded patch. I have put nitrogen on some of it and got a good rain on it today. Expensive as heck though, over $100/acre just to get it planted, and nitrogen is another $60 per acre.

Last winter made a believer out of me. In spite of a very dry fall, I had 30 acres of ryegrass on harrowed ground that produced excellent grazing for 3 months starting in February. Fattened up 50 weanlings on it and they hardly put a dent in it. They ate it on the front end and squirted it out from the back end, but they wouldn't hardly eat any hay so I quit putting hay out for them

Question: Is anybody else grazing their mommas and babies on winter grain instead of haying them? What are the pitfalls? I'm planning on running mommas, babies and weaned/castrated calves all together. (Can't afford to give the calves away at today's prices.)
Thanks!
Gabby

 

[Douglas]

I try to do the same thing but I try to limit feed the rye and feed hay as well. I will try to put the cows on the rye for 3 to 5 hrs. per day, or every other day. I have my weaned calves separate and let them eat longer. The cows can eat too much and waste a lot of grass. But if you have enough I guess you could leave them longer. You need to make sure your mineral has high magnesium to avoid problems.
I don't have enough rye/ryegrass till March here in NC to leave them on it all day. Mid January to Mid February there is very little growth here.

 

[Jogeephus]

Douglas gave excellent advice but I'll expand just a little. Dr. Lacey spoke to our cattleman's meeting a few years ago and he said winter grazing like you describe will cost $100/acre and you need to get at least 100 days of grazing on it to make it work. Otherwise, its cheaper to feed hay. I ran an experiment myself to satisfy myself and he was right on the money on the cost and he was right on the money that I was going to lose my shirt by not limit grazing - which I did. So with the cost of this approaching $180/acre I think it is even more important that you limit graze them in some fashion. As for the 100 days, I suspect this is now low with lower calf prices and higher inputs.

 

[Alberta farmer]

One year my old Dad had a wet field he couldn't plant until about June so he seeded it to fall rye. He'd put a lot of fertilizer on the fall before. The darn stuff was like a jungle by September and a heavy wet early snow had it a real flat mess. Seeing how he wasn't all that keen on spending the rest of the year trying to get it cut, dry, and baled he flogged the cows into it.
You sure didn't want to be standing behind any animal out in that field! The calves just grew like weeds, you could almost see the pounds going on! He sold those calves in late October and they sure were a "taggy" bunch! The trucker said he had to spend an hour hosing out the truck!
We left the cows out on that field all winter and they did what they could, which is difficult in Alberta as it is like the artic or something with snow up to your butt most years!
Next spring he sure had fun trying to work that mess!

 

[gabby]

Thanks Douglas and Jogeephus,
One reason I planted high-dollar grazing is so I could sell more of my hay for horse hay. It's real good Coastal and I'm getting $85 a bale (not enough) for 4'x6' shedded bales that weigh 1250-1300 lbs. I'm gambling that each acre of grazing will replace at least 2 bales of hay. Beyond that I should be making money by grazing the herd and selling the hay.

Plus, calves will bloom and gain real weight on the grazing, whereas on hay don't they just seem to hold their own?
gabby

 

[Jogeephus]

I'd sincrely like to know how it works out for you at the end of the year and your opinions on it and any tricks you might have learned.

My neighbor has been using a practice that you might find interesting. He is a unit per acre and has his land divided into 5 compartments - all of which are planted in rye or millet. During the winter months he puts the cattle in one compartment for 25 days. This is 4-5 head per acre. When the time period is up, he moves them. If the food gets scarce, he feeds extra hay and creep feeds them. I don't know his books, but he has been doing it this way for many years and seems to turn a profit.

 

[agmantoo]

I too live in NC and I have a problem understanding why in this discussion there is talk of feeding hay this time of year when fescue grows extremely well and the residual thatch is a good host for getting rye started and producing prior to March. Starting in late August and early September depending on rain, I begin my approaching toward stockpiling fescue for the Winter. My herd is concentrated on the tallest grass available and rotated daily to permit the rest of the farm to produce as much growth as possible. Once I get 10 acres or so eaten down to 3 to 4 inches and manured rather heavily I take a cheap seed slinger and a worn out drag harrow and start over seeding. Normally this is with Marshall rye and if there are bare spots in the previous forage I blend in fescue. Normally the seeded plants have sprouted and are growing within a week to ten days. I do not plan on going back on these until I get some decent top growth but I now have grass staged in various growth heights and most of the land is in production. I will by this date have paddocks grazed within the last month already approaching a growth level to where it will soon could be grazed in an emergency. These areas will be reserved for grazing in Feb. I have only 50 round bales for emergency feed and I plan on going through the entire Winter on stockpiled grass. Herd size is ~100 cows and heifers and various aged calves as I calve year round selling calves 4 times a year.

 

[Douglas]

^ In the sandy part of the coastal plain in eastern NC and elswhere in the south fescue is not so productive. Most southeastern pasture is in some form of bermuda which is long gone now. It is a different world than the NC piedmont west

 

[Jogeephus]

^ In the sandy part of the coastal plain in eastern NC and elswhere in the south fescue is not so productive. Most southeastern pasture is in some form of bermuda which is long gone now. It is a different world than the NC piedmont west

That's right. You know you are on some sandy land when you drill a 300 foot deep well and push up sea shells and sand dollars when you wash it out. :nod:

 

[1982vett]

I too live in NC and I have a problem understanding why in this discussion there is talk of feeding hay this time of year when fescue grows extremely well and the residual thatch is a good host for getting rye started and producing prior to March. Starting in late August and early September depending on rain, I begin my approaching toward stockpiling fescue for the Winter. My herd is concentrated on the tallest grass available and rotated daily to permit the rest of the farm to produce as much growth as possible. Once I get 10 acres or so eaten down to 3 to 4 inches and manured rather heavily I take a cheap seed slinger and a worn out drag harrow and start over seeding. Normally this is with Marshall rye and if there are bare spots in the previous forage I blend in fescue. Normally the seeded plants have sprouted and are growing within a week to ten days. I do not plan on going back on these until I get some decent top growth but I now have grass staged in various growth heights and most of the land is in production. I will by this date have paddocks grazed within the last month already approaching a growth level to where it will soon could be grazed in an emergency. These areas will be reserved for grazing in Feb. I have only 50 round bales for emergency feed and I plan on going through the entire Winter on stockpiled grass. Herd size is ~100 cows and heifers and various aged calves as I calve year round selling calves 4 times a year.

Mother Nature can cause a trainwreck with the best thought out plans. My bad was hoping normal rain patterns would returned after Ike blew thru. Well I was wrong..... again!

 

[Jogeephus]

Vett, not to throw salt on a wound but boy did we get us a frog-strangler today. Rained most of the day while I napped and caught up on goofing off. :banana:

 

[gabby]

Vett, not to throw salt on a wound but boy did we get us a frog-strangler today. Rained most of the day while I napped and caught up on goofing off. :banana:

We got a frog strangler too, about 6 inches in 24 hours. I'm afraid it was too much on the nitrogen I just put out on some of the rye. Ponds are full and flowing again for the first time since spring. The rye should grow well now if it doesn't turn cold for long and I should be grazing it in early December.

Agman, my ground is sandy too and that's why I don't have fescue. The red land starts just a couple miles north of here and fescue grows there. The good thing about sandy land is that it grows the heck out of Coastal while the red land doesn't.

 

[1982vett]

Vett, not to throw salt on a wound but boy did we get us a frog-strangler today. Rained most of the day while I napped and caught up on goofing off. :banana:

Maybe I need to arrange a swap for old "squeaky", especially if it can call up frog-stranglers as well as varmints. It's been mostly cloudy and we've been having foggy mornings. Oats is really enjoying them. As for goofing off, I've learned how to do that without needing rain to show me how. Besides, it cost me less to goof off than if I try to be productive. :lol:

 

[cypressfarms]

Question: Is anybody else grazing their mommas and babies on winter grain instead of haying them? What are the pitfalls? I'm planning on running mommas, babies and weaned/castrated calves all together. (Can't afford to give the calves away at today's prices.)
Thanks!
Gabby

Gabby,

I do this in part every year, and the cows and calves all perform much better on green grass than hay (boy that's a no-brainer). This year I have close to 30 acres planted in strategic paddocks that I can move the cattle in and out of. The only problem I've had in the past is weather. If we get good rains in late fall, and the temperature stays moderately warm, then come Jan. we can graze the ryegrass. From what I've been told in seminars and by seed reps, 50 and 90 are the magic numbers for ryegrass. If the temp goes above 90 degrees, the ryegrass will die (in late spring for us). If the the temp goes below 50 degrees, then the ryegrass will not grow to it's potential. So every year I play the wishing game in the fall/winter that we don't get low temperatures and that we get plenty rain. Having said this though, I still carry enough hay to make it through the winter without the ryegrass - just in case.