Hoser
Well-known member
This year I had 3 grey calves out of old purebred angus cows who have always had jet black calves. Does the newest hereford bull have some simmental in the woodpile?
Grey Claves
- Thread starter Hoser
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kenny thomas
Well-known member
I'm gonna say either the cows or the bull has some Simmi
Lucky_P
Well-known member
If the cows are black, the color dilution is definitely coming from the bull...it's not a trait that sneaks along undetected, then pops up to surprise you. Probably a bit tougher to ascertain in red cattle vs blacks, without genetic testing.
Now, as to whether there is Simmental in your Hereford bull's ancestry...IDK...wanna ask the breeder?
I'm getting long in the tooth, but I was seeing yellow/orange Hereford cows long before Simmental cattle were common, and in herds that likely had no infusion of SM genetics, whether accidentally or nefariously.
Now, as to whether there is Simmental in your Hereford bull's ancestry...IDK...wanna ask the breeder?
I'm getting long in the tooth, but I was seeing yellow/orange Hereford cows long before Simmental cattle were common, and in herds that likely had no infusion of SM genetics, whether accidentally or nefariously.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
There was some hanky panky back in the 70's with some Hereford lines being green papered. The AHA knew something stunk.
You know the old saying" 1. People who make things happen. 2. People who watch things happen. 3. People who don't know what happened."
Those goggle eyes appeared overnight bout the same time an Angus bull went from 800 lbs to a ton.
You know the old saying" 1. People who make things happen. 2. People who watch things happen. 3. People who don't know what happened."
Those goggle eyes appeared overnight bout the same time an Angus bull went from 800 lbs to a ton.
Aaron
Well-known member
Hoser said:This year I had 3 grey calves out of old purebred angus cows who have always had jet black calves. Does the newest hereford bull have some simmental in the woodpile?
Post the registration number and can probably track down the Simmie in the pedigree. Likely a few generations back and not showing on the paper certificate.
Aaron
Well-known member
Caustic Burno said:
You can find goggle eyes on cows in old time Hereford breed show photos from 100-120 years ago. Just like all Herefords weren't belt buckle size in the 1950's. And that the lineback and freckle face are original Hereford traits from the first Hereford cows - Pigeon and Motley.
The trait that is commonly regarded as suspect of breed purity in Herefords is the lack of a feather neck.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
Aaron said:
The AHA was convinced there was corruption taking place! That's why they were green papered the line.
MurraysMutts
Well-known member
Can someone please show pics of a feather neck and proper hereford. I've heard the term but never ran across one. I dont think....
Perhaps I'm being lazy. I'm a google a bit.
This gal is out of my hereford cow. I assume a black bull of some sort. Bought her bred. I only put her up here because the face marking is similar to the o.p.
Perhaps I'm being lazy. I'm a google a bit.
This gal is out of my hereford cow. I assume a black bull of some sort. Bought her bred. I only put her up here because the face marking is similar to the o.p.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
MurraysMutts said:Can someone please show pics of a feather neck and proper hereford. I've heard the term but never ran across one. I dont think....
Perhaps I'm being lazy. I'm a google a bit.
This gal is out of my hereford cow. I assume a black bull of some sort. Bought her bred. I only put her up here because the face marking is similar to the o.p.
This girls pedigree runs deep.
Both the bull and her are feather necked just doesn't show on the bull from that angle.
I lost a bunch of my pictures by not being backed up.
This is one of my bulls I sold to a ranch out west.
This is the bull I AI out of you can see the feather neck on him.
MurraysMutts
Well-known member
Caustic Burno said:MurraysMutts said:Can someone please show pics of a feather neck and proper hereford. I've heard the term but never ran across one. I dont think....
Perhaps I'm being lazy. I'm a google a bit.
This gal is out of my hereford cow. I assume a black bull of some sort. Bought her bred. I only put her up here because the face marking is similar to the o.p.
This girls pedigree runs deep.
Both the bull and her are feather necked just doesn't show on the bull from that angle.
I lost a bunch of my pictures by not being backed up.
This is one of my bulls I sold to a ranch out west.
This is the bull I AI out of you can see the feather neck on him.
Very nice. Thanks!
So the feather neck is the white on top of the neck eh?
Both my hereford mamas have that. As well as my bull.
Wonder why people dont like that? I always thought that was just a hereford being a hereford.
Does that contribute to the gray??
Or is that something else in the hereford cross breeding?
I guess we will see what I get outta my new hereford bull. I dont recall seeing any feather neck calves when bred to black cows.
Aaron
Well-known member
MurraysMutts said:Caustic Burno said:MurraysMutts said:Can someone please show pics of a feather neck and proper hereford. I've heard the term but never ran across one. I dont think....
Perhaps I'm being lazy. I'm a google a bit.
This gal is out of my hereford cow. I assume a black bull of some sort. Bought her bred. I only put her up here because the face marking is similar to the o.p.
This girls pedigree runs deep.
Both the bull and her are feather necked just doesn't show on the bull from that angle.
I lost a bunch of my pictures by not being backed up.
This is one of my bulls I sold to a ranch out west.
This is the bull I AI out of you can see the feather neck on him.
Very nice. Thanks!
So the feather neck is the white on top of the neck eh?
Both my hereford mamas have that. As well as my bull.
Wonder why people dont like that? I always thought that was just a hereford being a hereford.
Does that contribute to the gray??
Or is that something else in the hereford cross breeding?
I guess we will see what I get outta my new hereford bull. I dont recall seeing any feather neck calves when bred to black cows.
Commercial producers don't like the feather because the order buyers dock feathernecks as being pure Hereford. Lack of a featherneck loosely indicates crossbred to order buyers, and commands a higher price. Big push in the Polled Herefords for many years to completely eliminate featherneck, always heavily advertise cattle as rednecked. Pisses the horned guys off to no end because they see it as compromising breed purity, something the Polled guys threw out the window decades ago.
The dilutor gene contributes to the grey in the calves. A lovely little gem left by the Simmental influence in the Hereford herdbook.
OP
OP
Hoser
Well-known member
Aaron said:Hoser said:This year I had 3 grey calves out of old purebred angus cows who have always had jet black calves. Does the newest hereford bull have some simmental in the woodpile?
Post the registration number and can probably track down the Simmie in the pedigree. Likely a few generations back and not showing on the paper certificate.
c03031792
Aaron
Well-known member
Hoser said:Aaron said:Hoser said:This year I had 3 grey calves out of old purebred angus cows who have always had jet black calves. Does the newest hereford bull have some simmental in the woodpile?
Post the registration number and can probably track down the Simmie in the pedigree. Likely a few generations back and not showing on the paper certificate.
c03031792
I went back about 10 generations and didn't see anything real suspicious.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
If the cows are BLACK, they have no color dilution gene...it does not 'hide' in black cattle...they'd be some shade of gray, brown...
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
Lucky_P said:
Then explain how black Angus carry a red gene?
Muddy
Well-known member
:shock: :shock:Caustic Burno said:
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Red is not color dilution.
Black cattle can be red gene carriers, and will still be black...but if a black cow -whether hetero or homozygous black - has the color dilution gene, it will NOT be black, but some 'diluted' shade...gray, charcoal, brown, silver, etc.
Red cattle that have one or more copies of the color dilution gene will be a 'diluted' red...orange, yellow...
Black cattle can be red gene carriers, and will still be black...but if a black cow -whether hetero or homozygous black - has the color dilution gene, it will NOT be black, but some 'diluted' shade...gray, charcoal, brown, silver, etc.
Red cattle that have one or more copies of the color dilution gene will be a 'diluted' red...orange, yellow...
Lucky_P
Well-known member
I've posted this one before, but the 'dirty' white cow in the photo is 7/8 Angus; her white calf is 15/16 Angus. They both have a copy of the color dilution gene (actually, what they probably have is both the Simmental color dilution gene AND the Charolais color-inhibitor gene... but, the likelihood is that both of these 'white' animals are homozygous black, but because they have the color dilution/inhibitor genes... haircoat is not black.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
Lucky_P said:I've posted this one before, but the 'dirty' white cow in the photo is 7/8 Angus; her white calf is 15/16 Angus. They both have a copy of the color dilution gene (actually, what they probably have is both the Simmental color dilution gene AND the Charolais color-inhibitor gene... but, the likelihood is that both of these 'white' animals are homozygous black, but because they have the color dilution/inhibitor genes... haircoat is not black.
I have a 3/4 Angus calf right now that's the Murray Grey coloration out of a homozygous black bull. That Char color gene doesn't play by the rules.
