Greenhorn Questions

[Greenhorn]

First off, hello to everyone. I have been reading the posts for a couple days and dedcided to register and ask a few questions. I am looking to make the move into the cattle business and am in the process of learning and planning at the moment. My experience is somewhat limited. As a youngster my Grandfather in Oklahoma ran cattle and I would help out in the summer. I am currently raising exotics with my brother in law who has a place in the Texas Hill Country. We keep a herd of goats to provide some cash flow throughout the year. His place is not very conducive to raising cattle. So all in all not to much experience but enough to have made up my mind that this is the lifestyle I want to pursue. This decision is based on many things including quality of life, better environment to raise my kids, and a love of the outdoors, animals, and hard work (hehe, yes I like to work!).

I am in the planning stages right now and I am saving like a madman to get the necessary capital to start with. Looking at the price of land and the sale price of cattle I am having a hard time making the numbers work. I am not looking to get rich, just pay the bills. I am thinking of 200 acres and a cow/calf operation. I know answers may vary alot, and some questions may be vague and apply in one situation but not another and so on. What I am looking for is how you do it on your ranch to make a living. So here goes...

1. Is it generally better or more cost efficient to keep bulls for breeding or to AI?

2. Any trick or tips on financing the land and/or herd to make it profitable?

3. What to look for in a piece of land?

4. Is there a "best" age/weight to sell calves at?

5. What is the timeline on weight gain (generally speaking)? In other words what do they usually weigh at 3 months, 6 months, 9 months 12 months?

6. Should I set aside land for raising hay for the winter or how is hay production set into the grazing rotation?

Thanks in advance for any answers and all of the future help that this board will undoubtably provide.

-Greenhorn

 

[SF]

I am currently raising exotics with my brother in law who has a place in the Texas Hill Country.

Welcome to the board. I'll try and answer some of your questions. What kind of exotics are you raising? Are they profitable? If they are profitable, then why quit and jump to the cattle business?

We keep a herd of goats to provide some cash flow throughout the year.

Are the goats profitable?

His place is not very conducive to raising cattle.

Why not? Doesn't really matter, I'm just curious

...quality of life, better environment to raise my kids, and a love of the outdoors, animals, and hard work (hehe, yes I like to work!).

Couldn't agree with you more

I am in the planning stages right now and I am saving like a madman to get the necessary capital to start with. Looking at the price of land and the sale price of cattle I am having a hard time making the numbers work. I am not looking to get rich, just pay the bills. I am thinking of 200 acres and a cow/calf operation.

I've ran those numbers myself. More than once. Cattle are capable of paying for themselves, but in most places of North America they will never be able to pay for themselves and the land. You will need to have a good job, so you can purchase the land simply as an investment. Land will continue to increase in value. God isn't making any more of it. What we have is all there is. Land is a good buy at any price. Just make sure you can make the monthly payment and don't depend on the cows to pay for the land.

1. Is it generally better or more cost efficient to keep bulls for breeding or to AI?

Opinions will certainly vary on this one. In my opinion it is more cost efficient to own or lease a bull. It is certainly more efficient with your time.

2. Any trick or tips on financing the land and/or herd to make it profitable?

Don't depend upon the cows to pay for the land. They will have no problem paying for themselves, but most land is far too expensive for cows to pay for it on 30 year terms.

3. What to look for in a piece of land?

Water, grass, trees, fencing, etc.... Flood possibilities?

4. Is there a "best" age/weight to sell calves at?

Depends upon your operation. If you are going to be strictly a cow/calf operation, then you will sell them between 5 and 7 months of age. You will hope that they can average 550 pounds or better at this age. Some folks claim to wean 700 pound calves at this age, but most of the people I know wean calves weighing between 500 and 650 pounds (with no creep feed) at weaning.

5. What is the timeline on weight gain (generally speaking)? In other words what do they usually weigh at 3 months, 6 months, 9 months 12 months?

Depends on the breed. Lets just assume you are raising some Brafords or Hereford X's, or Angus X's. You should expect approximately the following (I'm assuming all are grass pastures, without any creep feed):
3 mo = 250+
6 mo = 550+
9 mo = 700+
12 mo = 900+

6. Should I set aside land for raising hay for the winter or how is hay production set into the grazing rotation?

Depends upon your place. I do not raise any hay. I don't have the time, and I can buy it cheaper than I can raise it. The downside for me, don't always know what I'm getting.

 

[Greenhorn]

My brother in law is older and retired. He raises livestock more for personal enjoyment now although his family has a long history of ranching in the hill country. The land he is on is quite hilly and rocky, cattle have been done but require supplemental feed and more work than he wants to put into them. We mostly raise Ibex, Auodad, and Blackbuck. Pure blood animals are quite profitable but we do it on a small scale for fun. The Ibex and Auodad require a tall fence and I don't think I would have the money to high fence my new ranch. The market also moves up and down depending on what the hunters want each year so a more stable source of income would be needed (not that cattle prices don't swing also). Goats actually could be a money maker, we are seeing $50 a head at the last auction and the average price over the last few years has been $35-40. Goats will graze off most anything and don't require much except keeping the coyotes at bay during kidding (twice a year usually). I have seriously considered goats for my ranch.

-GH

 

[denoginnizer]

How much profit do you figure you make per head on goats? I think the average for cattle is about 100.00 per head per year if that helps.

 

[gabby]

6. Should I set aside land for raising hay for the winter or how is hay production set into the grazing rotation?

Hey Greenhorn,

Welcome to the forum.

Here's my .02 worth on growing and baling your own hay - Don't do it. Buy your hay. It will reduce your capital requirements (you won't have to buy and maintain hay equipment) and it will free up the land for grazing. Last but certainly not least, it's cheaper to buy it than raise it.

Your mental energy is better spent learning cattle, and not worrying about learning how to grow and bale hay because that's a whole 'nother mountain to climb.

I buy all my hay for 80 mama cows and calves and 15 horses even though I have 75 acres of good hay land. I used to bale my own hay, then I used a good custom baling guy, and now I just lease out the hay land. I'm totally satisfied to be out of the hay growing business.
gabby

 

[Greenhorn]

bump