Grass finished hollistic grazing

[HDRider]

I have to agree with Andy that at least in the beginning body conformation and phenotype matter more than breed. All breeds have some "good" and some "bad" and there is definitely a correlation between grass efficiency and body type.

As to HD's question about where to find such cattle, I just spent the day at a feeder cattle sale. There are considerable differences in the kinds of animals walking through the ring. At least what I've noticed, is that the fatter type calf that comes in with a group of contemporaries is often discriminated against. They are usually slightly smaller framed and compact, and their body condition usually tells you they are a good doer. An easy keeper if you will. I try to buy these type of heifers to make into cows. Has anybody else noticed this kind of thing?

Could they have been on more feed than most to get fat like that?

Aren't they discriminated against because the feeder can't put as much weight on them?

 

[toughntender]

HD- They could have been on more feed. I am only talking about calves that come from the same place. You can usually tell by ear tag, general condition, amount of manure on them etc. At least at our sale barn, they will usually say that the single that was sorted off was from the same group or not. Maybe our barn sorts them a little harder than most. Guys will bring in say 6 or 10 calves and they'll be sold in 2 or 3 lots. Unless the calves are all very uniform.

Yes they are discriminated against because the feeders can't put as much weight on, they finish to fast. That works to our advantage though because they can be bought for less money. Also they will make for easy doing, grass type cows.

 

[Andyva]

The way the vast majority of the beef business works is people buy just weaned cattle and feed them out on grain or grain byproducts. If you buy a rack of bones that somebody ran out of pasture for, it doesn't weigh as much, so you can afford to pay a little more money per pound for less pounds. The fat, good doer mashes the scale down and doesn't have as much room for gain, so people will be hesitant to pay more money for even more pounds. Put the good doer in with a group of average cattle and he will get docked for being over-finished by the time the rest hit market weight. Because the feedlots can't load up a single calf and take it to market early before it eats as much grain. That would unfairly reward efficient cattle and wouldn't provide an evenly stacked playing field that favors cattle with lots of corporate backing and hype. So the market automatically discriminates against good cattle. If you want to buy some calves in the fall to put on some grass and sell the next fall, get the round, deep bodied calf.

 

[houstoncutter]

Their are very few places in the USA that can be holistic grazed year round. The folks that push the all forage diet are being misleading. If they graze it , then it's forage. If you bale it or make silage out of it, then it's feed.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

Andy,
You did say breed in your post.

Concerning your subsequent post, how does one find these medium framed deep bodied, easy fleshing, quick growing, fat and round beefs? It is a needle in the hay stack.

I would love to find seed stock breeders that focus on that. I can't.

HDRider, I think that you just described a Murray Grey. Our cows are smaller in frame; our herd averages about a frame score 4. We grass-finish our steers, and the beef grades choice or better. The beef is well marbled too. Our cows maintain good flesh year round, and wean good sized calves. Below are a few pictures of individuals in our herd.

The cow below is pictured at 4 years of age, and she has two 5 month old calves nursing her. She is nursing her own calf along with an orphan. She is a frame score 3, and when we weighed her she was 1,440 lbs. Between the two calves, she weaned a total of 1,054 lbs. She received no supplement; all she had was the grass in front of her.

The bull below is our current herdsire. He is pictured at 2 1/2 years old after breeding 20 cows. He weighed 682 lbs at weaning and weighed 1,505 lbs at 26 months. We tested him with Igenity for tenderness and marbing genes. He scored a perfect 10 out of 10 stars for tenderness and a near perfect 8 stars for marbling. He too is a frame score 3.

The last photo is of a 6 year old cow. She is 48 inches at the hip, so a frame score 3 and weighs over 1,240 lbs. Her last heifer calf weighed 560 lbs at weaning.

 

[JCB565]

Those are some good looking animals. are they all grass only? im in houston, id love to come check out your ranch sometime.

side note... how do you like the igenity testing? I used to work for neogen, as they aquired primatech (i was a design engineer for them) Seeing what animals medicine can do to solid plastic is what set me down this entire path in the first place. triclomox (sp) is some ruthless product. (Though i think it was for pigs?)

 

[Andyva]

Those are some nice looking cattle. They fit the model of efficient grass cattle. The Murray Grey is a good breed to look for that kind of phenotype in. Some others you might consider, Devon, Lincoln Red, some lines of Shorthorn, Red Angus, some lines of black Angus, and sometimes Herefords. On the smaller side you have Lowline Angus and of course the Galloways. I think the Aussies are pretty good at turning grass into beef efficiently, they knocked a little hair off of Shorthorns and made them all a pale color to reflect the sun and came up with a Murray Grey, which obviously does pretty good in a lot of situations, without being all hump backed or taking half a decade to grow out.

 

[JCB565]

i spent several hours looking into the greys last night. thats about the size id like to have, and it does seem to be a very efficient animal. devon and lincoln red are another two that keep coming up In my readings. I think at the end of the day, i have about 4 different breeds i can choose from and not really go wrong. next step i guess is to dig into pricing, and checking birthing rates.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

Those are some good looking animals. are they all grass only? im in houston, id love to come check out your ranch sometime.

side note... how do you like the igenity testing? I used to work for neogen, as they aquired primatech (i was a design engineer for them) Seeing what animals medicine can do to solid plastic is what set me down this entire path in the first place. triclomox (sp) is some ruthless product. (Though i think it was for pigs?)

Our cows receive a bit of hay in the winter time; last year we didn't need to feed hay at all. Our steers receive a handful of 20% range cubes to keep them easy to move, because we sometimes need to get them to walk a mile to the corrals. We would love to have you stop by sometime.

We have been satisfied with the Igenity testing. The data is clearly reported in a timely fashion. Within the profile that they produce, the tenderness and marbling scores and myostatin results have been the most helpful.

 

[cmf1]

Moved the cows yesterday and a friend up north wanted to see pix of green grass so I took a few with my phone.
8 bred cows, 1 bred heifer, 1 open heifer, 1 500-550lb steer calf.
9, 1.5-2 acre paddocks w pretty good rye grass stand.
1 sacrifice paddock feeding hay in.
23 4x5 rounds of good quality hay (1200lb +/-) fed since early Nov.
4 1/2 50lb bags of 18% range cubes fed so far. (to work them once, and when I feel sorry for them in the cold)
Moderate to large framed. 4 to 6. One 7 frame. All pure bred reg.

I'm finding it to be difficult to tag a specific phenotype to be more efficient without considering genetics.
I know some will say the 7 frame eats more grass, but I enjoy watching them. I do it a lot. She lays down when they're all laid down. She's up when they're all up. She may even hold her weight better than some of the others when it's harder.
Just an observation on my small slice.

The 7 frame with 5 day old 268 day gestation.


5.8 frame due 3/2


4.5 frame due 3/20


5 frame 2nd calf due 3/2