Going Hayless

[nap]

Let me start off by saying that there is nothing about dealing with hay that I like. My ultimate goal is to become almost completely independent of hay. My approach is twofold. One, to incorporate the techniques of Mig into my program. I have read numerous articles by Salatin, Garhish, Judy and others who seem to be making it work. Secondly, I have chosen animals with a strong Brahman influence. I live in the southern part of Arkansas and have chosen Brahmans for there heat and pest resistance and their preference to graze just about anything they can reach. I have found that during the winters these animals will eat bamboo and just about anything that stays green and thrive. I think it is time to rethink our reliance on hay just because daddy and grand daddy did it that way and try to adopt new ideas and approaches that will make out business more economically feasible. I know this is a very controversial subject but I am anxious to hear what others think.

 

[grannysoo]

I had to re-read that to find the word "almost". I think that most everyone would like to be "almost" completely independent of hay.

I'd also like to be almost independent of feed, corn, diesel fuel,100 degree days, and politicians that spread be nice.

Good luck with your plan.

 

[BC]

You may be able to get close to your goal with your plan to use MIG. BY defirring grazing of some paddocks and using them as a standing hay crop, overseeding ryegrass and clovers into other paddocks you might reduce the need to hay down to 45 to 60 days (from early January until ryegrass kicks in gear).

Time your calving season to be a couple of weeks ahead of the ryegrass flush.

 

[pdfangus]

It is easy to be totally hayless.

Just divest yourself of any forage based livestock or at least reduce the stocking rate to about 15 acres per animal unit and stockpile lots of fescue for winter.

Our biggest challenge the last few years has been grazing thru the summer. Last year we started haying in July and fed thru August and had a brief respite in the fall and started again in October.

 

[Jim62]

It can be done as long as EVERYTHING falls into place just right. I did it a few years ago. Had a couple pastures of standing grass that lasted just long enough, and a very mild winter. You still have to have hay on hand, just in case. Like if you overseed the clover and rye and then get no rain. That part works just like summertime.

The last few years, I'd say I feed about 1/2 the hay that would be considered "normal", with the winter grasses taking up the slack. Cows seem to really like the idea of grazing green grass year round. Ever notice how they don't seem to miss the hay until you feed the FIRST roll?

 

[Central Fl Cracker]

I spent about $ 120 per cow last year on Hay during the period of Nov. through June since we had a Spring drought. I too would like to be less dependent on hay but it seems to be a neccesary evil. My pastures are Bahia and you can not stockpile this type of grass. With the price of seed and diesel I did not try winter rye last year. Other than lowering your stocking rate I am not sure how to accomplish less hay and I also utilize rotational grazing which helps some. With the hard cost of leasing and fertilizer I am not sure lowering the stocking rate is the smart thing to do either. My cost on 135 ac. for a lease and fertilizer is about $ 8500 per ac. which I try to graze about 50 cows and if I lower this amount my per cow hard cost goes up.

 

[bigbull338]

theres no way to ever go completely hayless.but you can cut your hay feeding days big time.an you do that by overseeding rye clover an wheat into your pastures.an planting wheat for winter grazing.an rotate graze your pastures.every year do not start feeding hay till the 1st frost.an we fed hay from thanksgiving till maybe mid march.that was feeding hay 111 days.thats about as tight as you can cut it in east texas.if we changed 2 things we might get by with 100 days of hay or less.

 

[andybob]

With no winter rainfall, I was always able to leave early grazed paddocks to use as winter foggage as was the normal practise in our part of Africa. When I moved to NC, I developed a plan to winter graze rented fields, but unfortunately had to leave before being able to run the program long enough to collect enough information as to the overall efficiency of the scheme. Using Holistic planning and running low maintenance adapted cattle (Tuli), early indications were very encouraging. http://www.holisticmanagement.org/index.html

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Let me start off by saying that there is nothing about dealing with hay that I like. My ultimate goal is to become almost completely independent of hay. My approach is twofold. One, to incorporate the techniques of Mig into my program. I have read numerous articles by Salatin, Garhish, Judy and others who seem to be making it work. Secondly, I have chosen animals with a strong Brahman influence. I live in the southern part of Arkansas and have chosen Brahmans for there heat and pest resistance and their preference to graze just about anything they can reach. I have found that during the winters these animals will eat bamboo and just about anything that stays green and thrive. I think it is time to rethink our reliance on hay just because daddy and grand daddy did it that way and try to adopt new ideas and approaches that will make out business more economically feasible. I know this is a very controversial subject but I am anxious to hear what others think.

id have to work a calving season in there, that would work with that program something like a late spring. with that heavy brahman influence, are they will adjust to one their self by breeding later and later every time. if i were starting a program like that, it would be heavy on the hereford influence

 

[BC]

My pastures are Bahia and you can not stockpile this type of grass.

Bahia can be stockpiled just like bermuda or fescue. The secret to stockpiling is to graze close in August, fertilize like you would for hay, get a September rain and defer grazing until November. This stockpiled forage can carry you to past the first of the year or laterdepending on when you start calving. Given the situation that was presented, I would overseed with ryegrass and clover and start calving mid February. This would put the cows trying to rebreed in May.

 

[VanC]

This guy does it.

http://www.slanker.com/bulls/

 

[dun]

I feed less and less hay every year as the quality of the grass keeps improving. I stock pile as much fescue as I can over the winter and rotationally graze through out the year. I feed hay for about 90 days or so. By then the grass is out in March and I do not have to feed hay anymore.

We feed during ice and much snow, then again usually january through february. Some years earlier some years later. A couple of years ago we started feeding hay in june. Fed through august when the rains came. Only had to feed a little in early march the next year. Every year you have to play it by ear. Normally we keep enough hay to feed 2 years worth. Stockpiling fescue requires a lighter stocking rate and the managment to rest a pasture so it can regrow. We rotate a couple of hay fields with grazing one year and cutting the next

 

[novatech]

Let me start off by saying that there is nothing about dealing with hay that I like. My ultimate goal is to become almost completely independent of hay. My approach is twofold. One, to incorporate the techniques of Mig into my program. I have read numerous articles by Salatin, Garhish, Judy and others who seem to be making it work. Secondly, I have chosen animals with a strong Brahman influence. I live in the southern part of Arkansas and have chosen Brahmans for there heat and pest resistance and their preference to graze just about anything they can reach. I have found that during the winters these animals will eat bamboo and just about anything that stays green and thrive. I think it is time to rethink our reliance on hay just because daddy and grand daddy did it that way and try to adopt new ideas and approaches that will make out business more economically feasible. I know this is a very controversial subject but I am anxious to hear what others think.

You are right about the Brahman eating almost anything. Their foraging ability is great.
Depending on the severity of the winter Brahman cattle can suffer a great deal in cold temperatures. Because of this they need extra forage during the winter. Brahman cattle are tropical, they do great in the heat. Winter can be rough on them. The colder it gets the more energy their body will consume. It is important to bring your cattle into the winter with a good BCS as they may need the reserve.
Although I believe in the hay-less idea and pretty much go that way I also like to feed them some sweet cane type hay when we get below freezing weather. I also recommend that you make sure they have a good wind break.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

with the crazy weather we've had in recent years, theres no way i would venture into a hayless program. if you have say, a late winter snow storm like we did with the blizzard of march 93, are cold snaps that last for days those brahman are gonna bunch up, shiver lose weight drastically and with a calf on em you will supplement enough to have bought hay

 

[flaboy]

I had to re-read that to find the word "almost". I think that most everyone would like to be "almost" completely independent of hay.

I'd also like to be almost independent of feed, corn, diesel fuel,100 degree days, and politicians that spread be nice.

Good luck with your plan.

What I like about hay;

1. You don't start trying to bale it until the sun is at its hottest.
2. You get to spend a lot of money on sprays and fertilizers and stuff.
3. If you need rain, cut hay down.
4. I get to run a tractor with no cab, ac, or even a sun shade on top during the hottest part of the day and summer months.
5. I get to fix equipment again and again.
6. The pastures sure look good after they have been cut and baled.
7. My most popular thing I like about hay being able to say "I'm done"

 

[denoginnizer]

I could go without hay but it would cost me more . I usually use 3 bales per pair per year about 120 dollars per pair.
If i ran one pair to every 10 acres , and got decent rain, I wouldnt have to feed hay . 10 acres times 25 dollars an acre rent is 250 per pair. Lot of difference in profit. If land rent was cheap or if hay was higher it might work out otherwise I am stuck with hay.

 

[Central Fl Cracker]

I could go without hay but it would cost me more . I usually use 3 bales per pair per year about 120 dollars per pair.
If i ran one pair to every 10 acres , and got decent rain, I wouldnt have to feed hay . 10 acres times 25 dollars an acre rent is 250 per pair. Lot of difference in profit. If land rent was cheap or if hay was higher it might work out otherwise I am stuck with hay.

This has been my argument for 2 years on lowering my stocking rate. My lease and fertilizer cost are a constant expense of $ 60 per ac. for 135ac. So if I run 50 pairs that equates to $162 per pair and if I lower my stocking rate to 35 pairs that equates to $ 231 per pair hard cost. My variable cost of course is hay, mollasses and minerals for the winter which will vary on how many cows I have on the pasture. I am considering adding feeder calves that match the weight of my current calf crop if we keep getting rain. :dunce:

 

[The Bachelor]

What I like about hay;

1. You don't start trying to bale it until the sun is at its hottest.
2. You get to spend a lot of money on sprays and fertilizers and stuff.
3. If you need rain, cut hay down.
4. I get to run a tractor with no cab, ac, or even a sun shade on top during the hottest part of the day and summer months.
5. I get to fix equipment again and again.
6. The pastures sure look good after they have been cut and baled.
7. My most popular thing I like about hay being able to say "I'm done"

8. There's no air circulation in the loft.
9. All the breakdowns seem to occur on a hidden fire ant mound and them ants have a way of letting you know about it.
10. You get your daily fiber requirements from all that chaff flying around.

 

[TexasBred]

I had to re-read that to find the word "almost". I think that most everyone would like to be "almost" completely independent of hay.

I'd also like to be almost independent of feed, corn, diesel fuel,100 degree days, and politicians that spread be nice.

Good luck with your plan.

What I like about hay;

1. You don't start trying to bale it until the sun is at its hottest.
2. You get to spend a lot of money on sprays and fertilizers and stuff.
3. If you need rain, cut hay down.
4. I get to run a tractor with no cab, ac, or even a sun shade on top during the hottest part of the day and summer months.
5. I get to fix equipment again and again.
6. The pastures sure look good after they have been cut and baled.
7. My most popular thing I like about hay being able to say "I'm done"

Flaboy...don't forget....once you've done all of the above you're only half done...you then get to carry it BACK out to the cows bale at a time.

 

[flaboy]

Flaboy...don't forget....once you've done all of the above you're only half done...you then get to carry it BACK out to the cows bale at a time.

Naw, I carry them out two at a time just like I carry them in.