GMO Feed

[IGotMyWings]

Farmers generally do not like Monsanto because of their business practices and their fees, but farmers have voted with $ in favor of Monsanto's products.
Lest we forget, roundup ready beans replace millions of kids walking through bean fields. I have been one of those kids. I'm consulting with a law firm about suing my parents.

I was thinking about asking for support against RR alfalfa because I'm a tree hugger...well, not a hugger so much, but I have given a firm hand shake to a few...anyway, I raise grass fed - from teat to meat - cattle. I do so for two reasons. Firstly, I do it because I want healthier meat in my freezer, and secondly, I discovered that there is a market for it, and I can sell for three times normal market. Before you say that I'm gouging, my last freezer beef sale had an end price of $4.51/pound of meat, store bought grass fed beef can be as high as $40/pound, so I'm a bargain!

I've noticed that some have confused GMO with hybrids. You can make a hybrid by planting two different genus of plants in close proximity and they will cross pollinate, creating a third. You can hybrid animals by mixing the different blood lines the old fashioned way. Genetic modification, to me, is test tubing and has bad things written all over it. Part of the bad I see is that even though we dislike Monsanto, we cave and buy their product anyway, supporting the type of business practices that we'd never do. Another part is that because we've gotten away from nature, we're seeing higher diabetes, cancer and obesity rates than ever before.

Those of us that raise natural or organic beef do so because we believe that it's a better choice than feedlot beef. I've said on here before that I know people who have the same allergic reactions to beef once in a while that they have to taking penicillin so they have to watch what they buy. If a farm has taken the steps to become certified organic, and cross pollinating alfalfa gets into their pasture or purchased hay, they would lose the certification that they worked for, which I honestly believe is what Monsanto et al are after. The organic/natural market is growing, and that takes money away from them, so if they flood the market with seed that will cross pollinate and in essence contaminate a portion of the organic food supply, which means they win because every "contaminated" farm will lose the ability to sell as organic removing that choice from the market.

I was also a bean field walking kid, and looking back, I don't think it hurt me nearly as bad as fake food has!

 

[novaman]

Man we have to fire this debate up AGAIN! For your information GMO is not fake food. Just as real as anything "natural or organic".

 

[greengrasscattle]

[I've noticed that some haveconfused GMO with hybrids. You can make a hybrid by planting two different genus of plants in close proximity and they will cross pollinate, creating a third. You can hybrid animals by mixing the different blood lines the old fashioned way. !

Okay so you modified the genes of the cattle and the plants thru crossbreeding, but they are not GMO. How does that work?

 

[IGotMyWings]

[I've noticed that some haveconfused GMO with hybrids. You can make a hybrid by planting two different genus of plants in close proximity and they will cross pollinate, creating a third. You can hybrid animals by mixing the different blood lines the old fashioned way. !

Okay so you modified the genes of the cattle and the plants thru crossbreeding, but they are not GMO. How does that work?

Cross pollination or brown bull/white cow mating is using nature to hopefully get the strongest points of each genus to surface in the offspring. As I said before, genetic modification, as in making something chemical resistant - to me - involves test tubes and adding God knows what, or taking away something else.

And Novaman, as for GMO being as natural as organic, it's not just me, but the USDA also disagrees with you, if an organic farmer during the re-certification process is found to have GMO feed, even if it's from cross pollination, he or she loses that certification and the ability to market organic meat or dairy. Below is a list of the hoops the organic farmer has to jump through to get that little stamp.

-All ingredients must be 100% organically produced
-100% organic feed is required
-No growth hormones are allowed
-No genetically modified feeds are allowed
-No animal by-products of any form allowed in feed
-No antibiotics are allowed
-Restrictions on pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers
-No genetic engineering methods, ionizing radiation or sewage sludge for fertilization
-No synthetic chemicals, artificial preservatives or harmful additives such as sodium nitrite allowed in processing
-Annual inspection of producers and processors required for maintaining certification
-Third party assessment required

So, you can say that those farms that raise and sell organics are just cashing in on the misinformation if you want, but I dare say that not many of you would "cash in" when doing so means that you have to forgo many advantages of modern cattle farming. Those of us that do natural or organic farming aren't getting any richer than you are. Yes I can sell at three times the regular market, but I also have that animal twice as long, so I have more invested in it's food and upkeep, so my turn around time is shot in the butt! On average, you're selling calves twice as fast as I can. Yes, I raise cattle for money, but I raise them the way I do because I believe it's a better choice, and because I have that conviction in how I want my food, and the food that I produce, I don't want Monsanto and the like controlling every aspect of the modern food chain.

I don't know if they are still on the shelf, but recently, Pepsi had come out with limited run retro pop. Pop made like it was when I was a kid. Real sugar and orange juice in Mountain Dew. My daughter likes Dew so I got her one to try, to see if she could taste a difference. She could. Real ingredients make real differences. If using real ingredients can make a noticeable change in something like Mountain Dew, don't you think that it can do the same for beef, poultry and dairy products?

 

[greengrasscattle]

IGotMyWings

I mean no disrespect, but you maybe don't understand the meaning of the word modification. Anytime you have changed the genes of an organism it has been modified. Thus the phrase Genetically modified organism. Crossbreeding regardless of plant or animal still results in a modification of the genes.

 

[novaman]

You've got to be kidding me. Now corn syrup isn't real? Oh yeah its something modified from corn which was modified so it is fake crap right? I'm so happy sugar is all natural. By the way IGotMyWings, there is RR sugarbeets so your whole theory just went up in smoke. If you want to be a tree hugger, by all means go ahead. I don't think you will be changing anybody else's mind though. Dislike GMO all you want but without it there would be a lot less food in the world that still has major food shortages with it.

 

[IGotMyWings]

Look, guys, I understand that even a hybrid is technically a genetic modification, however, in cross breeding or intentional cross pollination, nature makes the choices as to what genes get moved up the ladder, free from any man engineered chemical additives. What I'm saying is I don't want anything in my food or what my food eats that isn't 100% natural. I choose my pasture seed carefully, and when I buy hay, I choose that just as carefully.

Corn syrup is an artificial sweetener. Yes, it's made from corn, but it's not sugar. I don't know if there were GMO sugar beets used to make the sugar in the pop, but that's not my point! My intention with sharing the bit about the pop was that both my daughter and I saw a noticeable difference between the taste of the pop made with corn syrup and artificial citrus flavor, and the one that wasn't. We both preferred the one made with real sugar and real orange juice. In that vein, there is a noticeable taste difference in beef from the grocery, and in the beef that is natural grass fed.

Do you know why grass fed and organic product vendors can charge $9.00/gal. of milk, or a cut of meat for $40.00 per pound? Because there are people out there that are so concerned with chemical additive and manipulation of the food supply, that they will pay it. I think those folks are gouging and taking advantage of people. My last sale was for $2.25/pound live weight. The folks who bought it are saving up the money to buy the next one from me as well. Partly because they like the taste and quality of the meat, and because my price, compared to the stores that sell the kind of meat that I raise, is very good.

People are not being scared due to misinformation. They are being scared because they look around them and see more diabetics, more obesity, and more cancer. They see that chickens are raised in unhealthy conditions, and chocked so full of growth stimulants that the bones can't keep up with the body weight. They see cattle that are fed growth stimulants and sub-therapeutic antibiotics at rates that, at times, are so large that there is residue in the meat. They see milk that is pasteurized, fortified, and so far from it's original state, that a lot of people are lactose intolerant - but oddly enough, they can drink raw milk without any problems! They want their food to be raised naturally. They want beef that eats grass...natural unadulterated untreated, unmodified grass.

All I want for my family, and my customers is the ability to assure them that when they cut into a steak, or bite into a hamburger made from my beef, they are eating wholesome, quality food that is free from molecular tinkering by a chemical company that doesn't care about anything but money and domination of the world's food supply and suppliers. With RR alfalfa on the market, there will come a time when I won't be able to make that promise.

 

[TexasBred]

I have my doubts when anyone makes a claim about anything being 100% organic. It might be 80 or 90% but 100% is stretching it. I don't think the "organic gurus" even require everything to be 100% organice in order to qualify as "organic".

 

[novaman]

I would like to know why it becomes necessary for anyone raising natural or organic to spread propaganda about conventionally produced food being so terrible. You say you have found a niche market and make decent money at it. Good for you. Don't go spreading a bunch of crap downplaying the quality of food the rest of us produce. You don't even have proof of anything you claim. Increased obesity, diabetes, lactose-intolerance, and cancer? It is pretty brave to blame that on modern foods. I would argue that obesity is more a factor of people having higher standard of living and more food at their disposal. Diabetes and lactose-intolerance could be attributed to many things but pointing fingers won't solve anything. Cancer is becoming more of an issue since people are living longer because of advances in medicine. We all have to die sometime of something. It just so happens cancer is one problem we haven't solved yet.

In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to use so much science to improve food production but we don't live in a perfect world. Further, there is no proof that GMO have any negative effects.

 

[IGotMyWings]

I would like to know why it becomes necessary for anyone raising natural or organic to spread propaganda about conventionally produced food being so terrible. You say you have found a niche market and make decent money at it. Good for you. Don't go spreading a bunch of crap downplaying the quality of food the rest of us produce. You don't even have proof of anything you claim. Increased obesity, diabetes, lactose-intolerance, and cancer? It is pretty brave to blame that on modern foods. I would argue that obesity is more a factor of people having higher standard of living and more food at their disposal. Diabetes and lactose-intolerance could be attributed to many things but pointing fingers won't solve anything. Cancer is becoming more of an issue since people are living longer because of advances in medicine. We all have to die sometime of something. It just so happens cancer is one problem we haven't solved yet.

In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to use so much science to improve food production but we don't live in a perfect world. Further, there is no proof that GMO have any negative effects.

First off, let me say that I am enjoying this spirited debate. It seems, though, that I'm making you mad, when that was not my intention!

There are studies that show that high fructose corn syrup suppressed the body's ability to know when it's full, which makes people eat more, leading to obesity. There are studies that say that diets high in corn syrup had laboratory rats showing signs of fatty liver disease and type II diabetes in just four weeks http://www.slu.edu/x15990.xml. There are studies that say all of this is a crock . Who do we believe? I believe my eyes. I know that diabetes is more common, because I can show you an entire nuclear family that has diabetic issues, including their teenaged child. Think back to when you were a teenager. How many people your age had diabetic issues, let alone, an entire household? I'll admit that part of the increase in cancer numbers is based on some longer life spans, but again, look around you. How many people 30, 40, or 50 years old are being treated for cancers? I used to work with a guy who was 24 and was going through chemo. I see more people my age (40's) in the obits who had cancer. As for lactose intolerance, I can point out several people who get sick drinking grocery store milk but have no trouble at all when they drink raw milk. I've never tried it, lactose intolerance isn't a problem I have.

I'm not trying to convince anyone that everything you do is wrong or what I do is right. All I'm wanting to do is have folks take a look at the facts. The facts are that natural beef is a better nutritional choice than conventional beef http://www.mercola.com/beef/health_benefits.htm. We have changed our mission from providing the most nutritional food on the planet to simply producing the most food. The chicken people are forced, by contract, to use confinement operations, keeping the birds in the dark and stuffing them with steroid enhanced feeds that make the chickens grow so fast that, because the bones aren't maturing as quickly, they can't walk! Did you know that in order to fight the E.Coli that naturally occurs in grain fed cattle, that ground beef is treated with ammonia? http://www.cattlebusinessweekly.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=1982 I like ketchup on my hamburgers, not Windex!

These are the kinds of things I want people to ponder. Huge companies are running and ruining our product. Genetic modification (the test tube kind - not hybrids) tampers with nature, and I, personally, don't think nature needs tampering with. If we return our focus to making the food we grow better, then we can still feed the world, and they will be healthier. RR crops work on the short term, but I just talked to my seed rep and he was telling me that he's noticed that slowly, the weeds are adapting and, themselves, becoming RR. I don't think that the weeds have figured out how to combat the rotary hoe.

If the USDA doesn't consider genetically modified alfalfa or other plants as natural, meaning that the organic producer cannot use them and retain certification, how can I? The FDA won't call high fructose corn syrup natural either, which is why 7UP had to remove the words "all natural ingredients" and replace them with "all natural flavors" awhile back. I'm not spreading rumor or conjuring lies to promote anything. Look it up for yourself.

 

[Douglas]

The nutritional benefits of grass fed vs. grain fed are obvious but have nothing to do with gmo. Unmodified organic corn still increases fat levels in beef.
Are you suggesting that grass fed beef do not have ecoli? If you can produce cattle that do not have manure in the intestines during slaughter I would like to know how.

 

[dun]

Are you suggesting that grass fed beef do not have ecoli? If you can produce cattle that do not have manure in the intestines during slaughter I would like to know how.

A couple of years a study was done that showed that if they were on grass and not grain for the last couple of days before slaughter that the level of e coli was greatly reduced. I found it intersting but not interesting enough to keep the link to it or recall the exact numbers.

Here's a link concerning the study:
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/09/11/us/sh ... gewanted=1

 

[TexasBred]

IGOT...the arguement grass -vs-- grain has been going on for sometime now with the same basic arguements being made pro and con. You grass folks promote your beef being more healthy, link us to sites and studies that promote your point and leave it at that. Exactly how much higher is the Omega 3 essential fatty acid in grass fed than in grain fed?? I accept the fact that it's higher, but how many pounds of grass fed beef --vs-- grain fed to I have to eat everyday to really get a noticeable benefit?? If the level of the Omega 3's is hardly measurable is it really a benefit or is the lack of them a detriment to my health?? Wouldn't it be much more simple to balance the O 3's and O 6's with a dose of high quality fish oil and KNOW that I have taken in an amount to actually be measurable in a blood test and see the results of "improved" good colesterol levels. As for taste and/or flavor....nobody tastes things the same. It's a matter of individual taste. What might taste good to you might taste like crap to me. Allow me to make that decision.

As for all the diseases....we have 300 million people in the US.....what was the population when you were a kid?? Probably about 25% of what it is today so there are many more people with the "opportunity" to come down with some illness as well....yet so many things occur much less frequently today than back then....Meat, milk and eggs is not the cause of everything.

Don't condemn my product !!! Promote yours...but when you see that everyone has a gut full of the propaganda know when to stop !!!

 

[alisonb]

:shock: :shock: ......................next :compute:.

 

[IGotMyWings]

IGOT...the arguement grass -vs-- grain has been going on for sometime now with the same basic arguements being made pro and con. You grass folks promote your beef being more healthy, link us to sites and studies that promote your point and leave it at that. Exactly how much higher is the Omega 3 essential fatty acid in grass fed than in grain fed?? I accept the fact that it's higher, but how many pounds of grass fed beef --vs-- grain fed to I have to eat everyday to really get a noticeable benefit?? If the level of the Omega 3's is hardly measurable is it really a benefit or is the lack of them a detriment to my health?? Wouldn't it be much more simple to balance the O 3's and O 6's with a dose of high quality fish oil and KNOW that I have taken in an amount to actually be measurable in a blood test and see the results of "improved" good colesterol levels. As for taste and/or flavor....nobody tastes things the same. It's a matter of individual taste. What might taste good to you might taste like crap to me. Allow me to make that decision.

As for all the diseases....we have 300 million people in the US.....what was the population when you were a kid?? Probably about 25% of what it is today so there are many more people with the "opportunity" to come down with some illness as well....yet so many things occur much less frequently today than back then....Meat, milk and eggs is not the cause of everything.

Don't condemn my product !!! Promote yours...but when you see that everyone has a gut full of the propaganda know when to stop !!!

I don't mean to condemn grain fed beef, what I mean to condemn is the way that chemical companies are running and ruining the product you and I work hard to raise. As for the benefits of grass fed verses grain fed, http://eatwild.com/healthbenefits.htm, explains them in detail. I've used this example before, but it's worth sharing again. You take pride in your cattle operation. You work hard to make sure your animals are healthy. You load up a bunch to take to the market, and you get your $.80/pound. The market that just bought your cattle, turns around and sells them to someone else who takes them to a feedlot where they are crammed into a small area where they stand and lay in the excrement of each other for an extended period of time. Because of the dirty, cramped conditions, they feed antibiotic laced feed, even to animals that aren't sick. By doing this, they are making the micro-organisms resistant to antibiotics http://www.cspinet.org/reports/abio... is a concern or interest to a lot of people.

 

[Douglas]

Are you suggesting that grass fed beef do not have ecoli? If you can produce cattle that do not have manure in the intestines during slaughter I would like to know how.

A couple of years a study was done that showed that if they were on grass and not grain for the last couple of days before slaughter that the level of e coli was greatly reduced. I found it intersting but not interesting enough to keep the link to it or recall the exact numbers.

Here's a link concerning the study:
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/09/11/us/sh ... gewanted=1

More recent studies reject their findings:

http://www.slate.com/id/2242290/


In 2003, a research team from the University of Idaho reported no difference at all in the levels of acid resistance between E. coli O157:H7 from grass- and grain-fed cattle. (In both cases resistance was high.) Their conclusion stands in direct contrast to the broad claims about grain diets that have been made in the popular press since 2006. It must be that some other factor or factors were responsible for the development of E. coli O157:H7.


Ground beefWe don't yet know what these might be. But four studies, published between 2003 and 2005, have developed an intriguing hypothesis. Maybe, some reasoned, E. coli O157:H7 behaves differently from other strains because it develops in a different part of the cow's intricate digestive system. Sure enough, O157:H7 turned out to have a strong tendency to congregate in the recto-anal junction, whereas most other E. coli tend to gather primarily in the colon. Given that, we might presume that the production of E. coli O157:H7 depends more on its unique location than on what its cow host happens to be eating.

 

[Douglas]

"Genetic modification, tampering with the DNA of a plant in order to make it resistant to certain chemicals, will have the same effect that over use of antibiotics has had."

There is absolutely no evidence that is true. None

"My seed rep was just telling me yesterday, that he's seeing where the weeds are already adjusting to RR crops."

Has nothing to do with food safety.

What you have not addressed is how we are going to feed a population that will increase 50% in the next 25 or so years. Without higher yielding, drought resistant, etc. crops people will starve. GMO is the only tool we have right now to fight this. Otherwise many acres of woodland and pasture will be destroyed (and a lot of carbon released) to feed these people.

How about we keep the corn for livestock and find something else to put in our gas tanks.

 

[TexasBred]

I'm not really an antagonistic tree hugger type. I simply believe that a lot of our health issues are from the one common denominator that all socioeconomic levels share, and that's food. (Or lack of it...not to mention a well balanced diet) Whether you make millions or thousands, everyone shops for groceries. And given the fact that in this particular board, this topic has the fourth largest number of views, GMO feed is a concern or interest to a lot of people.

Life to death is filled with environmental and inherited issues. Some of the things you are blaming on environment can also be inherited so let's not blame it all on food production and consumption. DDT was considered a health danger and discontinued....death from malaria has gone thru the roof in areas where it was discontinued but had been working well and life expectancy dropped considerably .... Since then it's been determined that it wasn't nearly as dangerous as first thought. Was it actually a life extender ???

If you have people willing to give $40 a pound for meat you have a bunch of fools for customers but ride it as long as you can. Folks also take YOUR word for it that your beef if 100% organic....I guess as far as you know...."it is"... Looks like there is money to be made. But I bet the larger demand is for the grain fed beef, not for health benefits but because of affordability and availability.

 

[dun]

"My seed rep was just telling me yesterday, that he's seeing where the weeds are already adjusting to RR crops."


More likely that the weeds are becoming roundup resistant because of the use of roundup, not a genetic mutation within the plant caused by a modified gene in another.

 

[TexasBred]

"My seed rep was just telling me yesterday, that he's seeing where the weeds are already adjusting to RR crops."


More likely that the weeds are becoming roundup resistant because of the use of roundup, not a genetic mutation within the plant caused by a modified gene in another.

i wouldn't think dead plants would build up immunity to anything. :???: