Get READY for a "BIG TRAIN WRECK"??

[novaman]

Ethanol will have zero effect on offshore drilling. It takes both natural gas and oil to produce ethanol. :lol2:

Not true. Local ethanol plant is coal-fired.

 

[Anonymous]

This economic fiasco is what got me into raising cattle for my own table, and to be honest has saved my tail. Being self employed I saw this coming years before it hit, so I bought in the sticks, where I could raise a few head. Then the crap hit. My business dropped 50 percent, but I have been able to hang in there because I raise my own food and make a lot of my own fuel. If not for those 2 facts, I probably would have lost everything. It saved me that much and I sold off my excess meat for a decent profit. Around here more and more people are doing what I have, and instead of just having land to look at they are buying cattle and letting the land work for them$ this is causing the price of calves in the 350 to 400 lb range to sell in the 1.25/lb range for the last 3 years. That's why I started to raise my own calves, cutting my cost outlay even further. So, around here cattle prices have been going up, at least as far as I can see.
I will reserve my opinions on ethanol out of respect for all the corn farmers on the board

 

[Brute 23]

Ethanol will have zero effect on offshore drilling. It takes both natural gas and oil to produce ethanol. :lol2:

Not true. Local ethanol plant is coal-fired.

How did they ship the coal there? Is there plastic being used? Who provided the electricity for the lights? What kind of equip do they move the coal with? What kind of equipment harvested the corn? How did the corn get trucked? How did the workers get to work? ...... ect ect ect ...... ;-)

I am not saying Ethanol is not a good product but it won't put any drilling rigs out of business if that is what people are hoping for.

 

[TexasBred]

Ethanol will have zero effect on offshore drilling. It takes both natural gas and oil to produce ethanol. :lol2:

Not true. Local ethanol plant is coal-fired.

It still won't effect it. Ethanol is just another drop in the bucket anyway. It will affect the cost of grain tho.

 

[novaman]

Ethanol will have zero effect on offshore drilling. It takes both natural gas and oil to produce ethanol. :lol2:

Not true. Local ethanol plant is coal-fired.

It still won't effect it. Ethanol is just another drop in the bucket anyway. It will affect the cost of grain tho.

Higher or lower? Everybody blames ethanol for raising the price of corn. I look at it as a catalyst to increase corn production which in turn leveled out any initial increase in price. Its supply and demand. Anyone still playing the card that ethanol is killing the beef industry needs to look at the facts and find something else to place to blame on. 33% of the corn used goes back to cattle feed in the form of distillers grain. 33% of the corn used produceds carbon dioxide, which in this area gets pumped up to Canada to be used in their oil fields to increase oil recovery. By the way Brute, the electricity in this area comes from coal-fired plants ;-) .

 

[Brute 23]

What do they use to BURN coal? ;-)

 

[KenB]

What do they use to BURN coal? ;-)

;-) Air and fire? :nod:

 

[Brute 23]

To get started up alot of them use an oil or gas.

 

[KenB]

To get started up alot of them use an oil or gas.

Maybe so, but it would not be required.

 

[TexasBred]

Higher or lower? Everybody blames ethanol for raising the price of corn. I look at it as a catalyst to increase corn production which in turn leveled out any initial increase in price. Its supply and demand. Anyone still playing the card that ethanol is killing the beef industry needs to look at the facts and find something else to place to blame on. 33% of the corn used goes back to cattle feed in the form of distillers grain. 33% of the corn used produceds carbon dioxide, which in this area gets pumped up to Canada to be used in their oil fields to increase oil recovery. By the way Brute, the electricity in this area comes from coal-fired plants ;-) .

No way you can say "supply and demand" has pushed corn prices from the historical $1.85--$2.00 range up to the $4.50--$5.00 range of last year. Corn or any human food grade product should be the last resort for producing ethanol.

 

[novaman]

No way you can say "supply and demand" has pushed corn prices from the historical $1.85--$2.00 range up to the $4.50--$5.00 range of last year. Corn or any human food grade product should be the last resort for producing ethanol.

We are only now reaching equilibrium on corn prices IMO. It has been floating around the $3.50 range for awhile now. I raise wheat. Up until 2007 I always figured $3.50 to be a good price. Now I am selling wheat for $6-7 and that is looking to be more the norm as well. I don't think they are using wheat to produce ethanol. Corn producers wouldn't survive on $2 corn. Fertilizer expenses would have killed most off by now. I have no problem if corn stayed at $3.50 from now on. It is a fair price for a good product. As far as your argument about human grade food products being used for ethanol, should we stop feeding corn to cattle as well? We are giving up energy by feeding it to them before we eat the animal itself. I'm not saying I am against the practice, but you can't put the blame on ethanol. This sort of increase in demand brings out a lot of good in the form of R & D to become even more efficient in its production.

 

[SRBeef]

No way you can say "supply and demand" has pushed corn prices from the historical $1.85--$2.00 range up to the $4.50--$5.00 range of last year. Corn or any human food grade product should be the last resort for producing ethanol.

We are only now reaching equilibrium on corn prices IMO. It has been floating around the $3.50 range for awhile now. I raise wheat. Up until 2007 I always figured $3.50 to be a good price. Now I am selling wheat for $6-7 and that is looking to be more the norm as well. I don't think they are using wheat to produce ethanol. Corn producers wouldn't survive on $2 corn. Fertilizer expenses would have killed most off by now. I have no problem if corn stayed at $3.50 from now on. It is a fair price for a good product. As far as your argument about human grade food products being used for ethanol, should we stop feeding corn to cattle as well? We are giving up energy by feeding it to them before we eat the animal itself. I'm not saying I am against the practice, but you can't put the blame on ethanol. This sort of increase in demand brings out a lot of good in the form of R & D to become even more efficient in its production.

Good post. Ethanol production has improved dramatically. Increased fertilizer prices as you mention have had a positive effect in that they have made us use fertilizers more efficiently. A range of 3.50-4.00 does look like the new base corn range and that is a good thing for us as a nation. $2 is not good, and neither is $6. in my opinion.

DDG's as an ethanol byproduct have also changed the balance of ethanol and cattle.

And corn GRAIN-based ethanol leaves most of the precious organic matter we depend on in the field where it belongs. Efforts to produce ethanol by using the whole plant or other sources that remove all organic material are like shooting the cow that feeds you milk. Removing the grain only actually removes very little organic matter from the field.

And even in the worst case, ethanol is never going to create a disaster such as we have in the Gulf of Mexico. Ethanol is a human-scale known technology with very limited risks that has the potential to be further improved by technology improvements as you describe.

The idea that using corn for ethanol somehow is taking food away from any human beings argument is so full of holes that I don't even know where to begin - that is a staple of the "corn is evil, become a vegetarian and by the way mail your donation here..." crowd.

jmho. Jim

 

[TexasBred]

No way you can say "supply and demand" has pushed corn prices from the historical $1.85--$2.00 range up to the $4.50--$5.00 range of last year. Corn or any human food grade product should be the last resort for producing ethanol.

We are only now reaching equilibrium on corn prices IMO. It has been floating around the $3.50 range for awhile now. I raise wheat. Up until 2007 I always figured $3.50 to be a good price. Now I am selling wheat for $6-7 and that is looking to be more the norm as well. I don't think they are using wheat to produce ethanol. Corn producers wouldn't survive on $2 corn. Fertilizer expenses would have killed most off by now. I have no problem if corn stayed at $3.50 from now on. It is a fair price for a good product. As far as your argument about human grade food products being used for ethanol, should we stop feeding corn to cattle as well? We are giving up energy by feeding it to them before we eat the animal itself. I'm not saying I am against the practice, but you can't put the blame on ethanol. This sort of increase in demand brings out a lot of good in the form of R & D to become even more efficient in its production.

Not blaming ethanol for everything. Just think there are better raw materials for production of is than anything already needed to feed people. (and animals). As for "lost energy"....we trade off energy (corn) for protein.. in this case meat. $3.50 is a fair price for corn but $5.00 was nothing but speculators in the market in the same way they pushed crude oil to all time highs...that then pushed nitrogen cost thru the roof which was followed by phos. and potash. Phos is now half what it was a year or so ago. We had farmers still sitting on million of bushels of corn as they turned down $5.40 waiting on $6.40 which never happened. But...back to ethanol....anything that will ferment will make the stuff..every moonshiner in the world knows that. Instead of subsidizing corn for use in ethanol the money could be used to continue more and more research in alternatives.

 

[novaman]

Not blaming ethanol for everything. Just think there are better raw materials for production of is than anything already needed to feed people.

....anything that will ferment will make the stuff..every moonshiner in the world knows that. Instead of subsidizing corn for use in ethanol the money could be used to continue more and more research in alternatives.

Not arguing but what else could we use that would be widely available and not cause interference to other markets? They are working on biomass ethanol production. Sounds good. Use the residues that get separated from the grain. The problem I see with that is we will be stealing nutrients and organic matter that would normally be cycled back into the soil. Further we are increasing risks of erosion and soil degradation. I guess I'm curious what your feelings are as far as alternatives to corn.

 

[TexasBred]

Nova....even milo produces more ethanol per bushel than corn, is less expensive and produces a higher quality DDG typically testing as high as 34-36% crude protein with 9% fat. Some research has been done on a number of hi-yielding specialty grasses as well as all this "lovely" mesquite we have down here. lolol. Noone has hit on the perfect solution yet but using corn for ethanol has already proven to have too much of a negative economic effect in the long run on the public.

 

[iowa hawkeyes]

I think the Corn promotion board etc did a good job of promoting the product and in turn getting the ethanol subsidy passed. That has to get renewed this year or else the ethanol plants will go the way of the biodiesel plants. I agree that corn isn't the best product to produce ethanol but they have the market now. Kind of like the CAB program isn't the best, but they promoted and got their program established.

As far as $2 corn, we (corn farmers) would be getting a govt subsidy if the price was that low. I'd rather have it here and let us make our own marketing plan.

 

[TexasBred]

I think the Corn promotion board etc did a good job of promoting the product and in turn getting the ethanol subsidy passed. That has to get renewed this year or else the ethanol plants will go the way of the biodiesel plants. I agree that corn isn't the best product to produce ethanol but they have the market now. Kind of like the CAB program isn't the best, but they promoted and got their program established.

As far as $2 corn, we (corn farmers) would be getting a govt subsidy if the price was that low. I'd rather have it here and let us make our own marketing plan.[/quote]

Absolutely.