Gelbvieh

[Stocker Steve]

my balancer X cows will be bred to a carcass and growth angus

I think Angus makes a great terminal cross. At the last bull sale I saw some really wide stout BA bulls sell cheap because they were +3 for BW...

 

[3waycross]

my balancer X cows will be bred to a carcass and growth angus

Good plan!

Which will result in breed regression; the opposite of hybrid vigor.

But breeding baldies to a Herfeford doesn't? You should go back and read your own posts before you speak "O Great and Wise" one.

He is breeding for replacements and even you know that the Brit/Continental cross gives you the most hybred vigor and longevity and with the Gelbvieh MATERNAL.

What he breeds those cows to for terminal doesn't matter as far as breed regression. Hence the word TERMINAL

However if he does what he says he will be breeding growth and carcass into his terminal calves. Wow there's a novel concept! Even you should be able to understand that. A 1/4 Continental calf with lots of growth and high marbling. I bet there ain't a feedlot operater in America who wants that kind of animal!

 

[Cross breeder #1]

i agree w/ 3way and dont want herfords. has anyone ever heard of a high growth rate herf
???

 

[Massey135]

Yes there are terminal herefords too.

The reason I suggested using either Angus of hereford for replacements is because you said you already have baldie cows. I will always give up a little hybrid vigor in years I'm keeping replacemts in order to 1) limit the number of breeds in the momma cow and 2) stabilize the genetics in the cow herd. By using hereford or angus, your replacements will be 3/4 one way or the other. Then you can use a bull of the 3rd breed for the terminal cross. This calf will be a 3 way cross- which maximizes the vigor. The f1 momma is obviously most ideal but 3/4 is the next best.

I would never come back over the cows with a bull thats breed was already in my cow heard if maximum performance/hybrid vigor was my goal.

 

[TexasBred]

If your cows are black (angus) or bwf (baldies ie Angus x hereford) I woud suggest either going back with a Hereford or an angus in order to more stabalize the genetics youre working with. then use the continental breeds- charolais,limo,gelbvieh,blonde,simm when your looking for maximum lbs out of your calf calf, not when your trying to make momma cows.

I know I hate generalities and platitudes as much as anyone but for a beginner seeking a new bull- these generatlities still hold pretty much true.

You are wrong!

Again?? Nothing new under the sun. :lol2: :lol2:

 

[dun]

Of the contintal breeds both Gelbvieh and Simmenthal are considred maternal as well as terminal. It's sure work well for us through the years.

 

[Massey135]

If your cows are black (angus) or bwf (baldies ie Angus x hereford) I woud suggest either going back with a Hereford or an angus in order to more stabalize the genetics youre working with. then use the continental breeds- charolais,limo,gelbvieh,blonde,simm when your looking for maximum lbs out of your calf calf, not when your trying to make momma cows.

I know I hate generalities and platitudes as much as anyone but for a beginner seeking a new bull- these generalities still hold pretty much true.

You are wrong!

Again?? Nothing new under the sun. :lol2: :lol2:

You're both a couple democrats.. you point out the problem but offer no solution.

 

[3waycross]

You are wrong![/quote]

Again?? Nothing new under the sun. :lol2: :lol2:[/quote]
You're both a couple democrats.. you point out the problem but offer no solution.[/quote]

it was offered; you just didn't hear it, because it wasn't your solution and you also needed an excuse to hijack the thread, you wingnut. As far as Democrats. :shock: I have been a member of the Republican Central Connittee for the last 3 years. I always have a solution and even when I am not right(which is never) I am ALWAYS sure.
:cowboy:

 

[Massey135]

Your solution resulted in a 4way cross calf. Mine resulted in a 3 way cross. We all know hybrid vigor is maximized at the 3 rd cross. Ironic being that your handle is ideed "3waycross"

 

[ANAZAZI]

Your solution resulted in a 4way cross calf. Mine resulted in a 3 way cross. We all know hybrid vigor is maximized at the 3 rd cross. Ironic being that your handle is ideed "3waycross"

In my world, a 3way and a 4way adds up to the same as long as it has a purebred sire contributing 50% of the genetics.

 

[Massey135]

Of the contintal breeds both Gelbvieh and Simmenthal are considred maternal as well as terminal. It's sure work well for us through the years.

I thought those characteristics were antagonistic by nature.. no? If those 2 breeds still existing as the Dual Purpose breeds they once were then I'd be more prone to agree , but in their modern form- how can that be so?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

i think people get wadded up in,, that every continental breed, is strickly a terminal breed...

 

[dun]

Of the contintal breeds both Gelbvieh and Simmenthal are considred maternal as well as terminal. It's sure work well for us through the years.

I thought those characteristics were antagonistic by nature.. no? If those 2 breeds still existing as the Dual Purpose breeds they once were then I'd be more prone to agree , but in their modern form- how can that be so?

As was suggested, do a little research! How familiar are you with those 2 breeds?

 

[3waycross]

Here he is. His dtrs are easy keepers and they wean off good calves.

http://www.bullbarn.com/gelbepd.asp?ID=4

Looks impressive.
How big are his daughters?
Do you use him on heifers?

Here are some pics of his dtrs.......and yes I would use him on heifers for sure!

Dtr on her 4th calf. Look at her udder

another Atlas dtr

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Yes, even the "modern" Simmental are still considered maternal & terminal.

 

[cowwrangler]

Here he is. His dtrs are easy keepers and they wean off good calves.

http://www.bullbarn.com/gelbepd.asp?ID=4

Looks impressive.
How big are his daughters?
Do you use him on heifers?

Here are some pics of his dtrs.......and yes I would use him on heifers for sure!

Dtr on her 4th calf. Look at her udder

another Atlas dtr


nice calves :clap:

 

[Dylan Biggs]

Yes there are terminal herefords too.

The reason I suggested using either Angus of hereford for replacements is because you said you already have baldie cows. I will always give up a little hybrid vigor in years I'm keeping replacemts in order to 1) limit the number of breeds in the momma cow and 2) stabilize the genetics in the cow herd. By using hereford or angus, your replacements will be 3/4 one way or the other. Then you can use a bull of the 3rd breed for the terminal cross. This calf will be a 3 way cross- which maximizes the vigor. The f1 momma is obviously most ideal but 3/4 is the next best.

I would never come back over the cows with a bull thats breed was already in my cow heard if maximum performance/hybrid vigor was my goal.

Breed preferences aside, from an ease of management standpoint the straight bred cowherd is hard to beat from the standpoint of the in herd renewal task, unless one has a steady consistent source from which to purchase replacements. The straight bred cow herd, bred terminal or F1 terminal, if one perceives value in a 3 way cross, gets one the benefit of hybrid production with minimal management of breeding logistics. Even in our sparsely populated area coordinating pastures for breeding relative to minimizing grazing impact, ie optimizing rest and preventing mix up with the neighbors cattle or other classes of our own livestock such as stockier heifers is an annual challenge. It has been my experience that any time one can minimize breeding groups/pastures there is a management and quality of life pay off.

DB

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

forgot to say this but i cant AI i dont have a tank or know how

If you have someone in the area that does AI -- maybe someone from ABS, or Select Sires, or similar -- you don't need the tank or the procedural expertise. He/she can sync your cows, bring the bull(s) to you, and inseminate. Good luck! Where are you located in MO?

 

[Cross breeder #1]

i really like the balancers w/ a terminal angus, because the market around here is so bad about bias even baldies are cheaper by 10 cents and a better quality RA will sell for 40 cents less than a blk ang.The big butt of gelbvieh will really help my cow herd. by the way there hasnt been a herf bull here in 15 years mostly angus

 

[AussieLim]

Mind me asking why Gelbvieh? I understand that they are generally good milkers but so are other breeds?

Unless you are close enough to sell him one of your wonder bulls why not respect the fact that this thread is not about Lim's. Randy and a few others who actually have some class seem to be able to do that.

3way I was just asking the question- no need shooting ur mouth of. This forum is for discussion, hence my question: why Gelbvieh