GAR Sure Fire daughters

[VaCowman]

Anybody in the CT world have any working Sure Fire daughters? How are they doing for you? He intrigues me a bit, but I'm a little hesitant to pull the trigger. The last time I used GAR genetics, ended up with some rather unappealing replacement females. They didn't make the cut for replacements here, but the ones that we fed for the freezer were pretty darn good on the plate! Doesn't look like he sacrifices much maternal for the sake of carcass. Just afraid I'll get some of those ugly calves again.

 

[NEFarmwife]

I think Jscunn was going to sample him. Not sure if he'd have any on the ground yet.

I'm seeing the daughters are pretty hot at the sales right now.

 

[T & B farms]

As many people here know, I am not a Gar fan whatsoever. That being said, I have liked what I saw out of surefire. No calves on my farms, but a neighbor has had a bunch over the last several years. Slick haired, and good docility. They seem to be easier fleshing and most Gar bulls. Feet seem to be good also. The udders on his daughters have been beautiful.

Sure fire is the one Gar bull I would use.

 

[jscunn]

I think Jscunn was going to sample him. Not sure if he'd have any on the ground yet.

I'm seeing the daughters are pretty hot at the sales right now.
[/quote

Remind me to never argue with you, your memory is too good. Still waiting first Sure Fire's due middle of October. Hoping to get some females but didn't use many straws. Also have some Enhance's due same time, I must have finally guessed right on the hot sire of the sale seasons.. I will mess that up this fall I am sure.

 

[NEFarmwife]

I think Jscunn was going to sample him. Not sure if he'd have any on the ground yet.

I'm seeing the daughters are pretty hot at the sales right now.
[/quote

Remind me to never argue with you, your memory is too good. Still waiting first Sure Fire's due middle of October. Hoping to get some females but didn't use many straws. Also have some Enhance's due same time, I must have finally guessed right on the hot sire of the sale seasons.. I will mess that up this fall I am sure.

Ha! I just keep good tabs on new bulls. I recall looking him over heavily once you commented. I hope you got it right! Good luck and please share as that progresses.

 

[CreekAngus]

As Tonya stated, seems like with the high dollar female sales that have gone on, He's been a sire of a lot of the high selling heifers and cows. His phenotype is a better than most GAR bulls I've seen except Predestined. Select Sires is pushing him pretty well and I think last year he was in the top 5 for registrations.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

He is out of a Connealy Bull...Connealy In Sure...which is a Mitty son. I'm considering using him on our heifers this spring along with the Hoover Dam we banked.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

Whoa...check that. He weighed 84lbs at birth? Goodness...maybe I'm not going to use him on heifers. His EPD's would sure have you thinking you could use him on them but now i'm not sure.

 

[jscunn]

What in the world does actual BW have to do with it? If you don't know the backstory on the environment, condition of the Dam or Recip, whether or not she raised a calf last year or not, what the average BW in the pasture was, then actual BW is just a number. 84 isn't that bad, if the cow weighs 1500# (likely) then it is pretty good. He has a ton of data on BW and CED that is way more valuable than his actual BW. If you continue to use only bulls that have a 70# BW you will end up with heifers that cant birth a 70# calf. Too much selection on BW in the Angus breed. I have used a bull this year that is +5 CED and 2.4 BW EPD don't expect any trouble having calves out of heifers because I haven't had any in the past with the bull.

 

[Son of Butch]

GAR Sure Fire -.3 bw top 20% with .96 accuracy based on 4,940 reported birth weights.
IF that doesn't convince you he's calving ease I don't know what will.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

What in the world does actual BW have to do with it? If you don't know the backstory on the environment, condition of the Dam or Recip, whether or not she raised a calf last year or not, what the average BW in the pasture was, then actual BW is just a number. 84 isn't that bad, if the cow weighs 1500# (likely) then it is pretty good. He has a ton of data on BW and CED that is way more valuable than his actual BW. If you continue to use only bulls that have a 70# BW you will end up with heifers that cant birth a 70# calf. Too much selection on BW in the Angus breed. I have used a bull this year that is +5 CED and 2.4 BW EPD don't expect any trouble having calves out of heifers because I haven't had any in the past with the bull.

That is an amazing stat. Our females are 1200lbs on average currently. What size birth weights do you expect from your +5 CED, 2.4 BW bull?

We have been working on not getting too small in our BW. We have been using power bulls on the cows and upping the birthweights there to 80lbs plus. I've got an 80 year old cowboy that wants us to give birth to tiny calves!!! That being said, we'd like our heifers to handle a calf up to 80lbs.

As you point out, you can't tell on the actual birth weights of his calves because of all the other variables but i've seen probably 20 this year with birthweights over 80lbs. Too many variables to know what was up but he will not fully negate some other factors that you point out above.

 

[VaCowman]

We try to breed our heifers to a CED bull in the 8-10 range most of the time. We try to use a bull with a BW of 2 or above on the cows, as long as his CED isn't negative. It's getting harder and harder to find both types of bulls out there. Seems like the CED and BW have gone to the extremes. Hard to find a good cow bull that isn't 10 CED or higher. I mean, don't get me wrong, I have used some LBW, CE bulls on cows, and probably will again, but ideally, I'd like a 2.0 or higher BW with a CED of 0-6. I'm comfortable with that on cows. I don't weigh calves, as long as they come unassisted, they get a pass and a good ol "atta girl".

 

[jscunn]

"That big strapping calf at birth is a lot more likely to be a big strapping calf at weaning."

Words to live by. We have really just started calving, AI calves are done natural calves just starting up. So far we have averaged 69 lbs on heifer calves and 70 lbs on bull calves. The +5 CED bull averaged 68 lbs on bull calves no heifers this year. By the same token Sure Fire heifers averaged 70lbs, no bull calves.

Personally speaking we are 10 lbs lighter than I want to be on birthweights.

 

[kdhansen]

"That big strapping calf at birth is a lot more likely to be a big strapping calf at weaning."

Words to live by. We have really just started calving, AI calves are done natural calves just starting up. So far we have averaged 69 lbs on heifer calves and 70 lbs on bull calves. The +5 CED bull averaged 68 lbs on bull calves no heifers this year. By the same token Sure Fire heifers averaged 70lbs, no bull calves.

Personally speaking we are 10 lbs lighter than I want to be on birthweights.

Have you heard/seen anything about the RES Dark Fire bull (Select Sire - Sure Fire/Thunder)??? Been trying to decide between Sure Fire or Dark Fire.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

"That big strapping calf at birth is a lot more likely to be a big strapping calf at weaning."

Words to live by. We have really just started calving, AI calves are done natural calves just starting up. So far we have averaged 69 lbs on heifer calves and 70 lbs on bull calves. The +5 CED bull averaged 68 lbs on bull calves no heifers this year. By the same token Sure Fire heifers averaged 70lbs, no bull calves.

Personally speaking we are 10 lbs lighter than I want to be on birthweights.

Have you heard/seen anything about the RES Dark Fire bull (Select Sire - Sure Fire/Thunder)??? Been trying to decide between Sure Fire or Dark Fire.

In looking at the EPD's, personally, I like Sure Fire's numbers better. Obviously his numbers are much more accurate as well. We don't like to be wildcatter/explorers. We like to follow a well proven trail.

 

[76 Bar]

"That big strapping calf at birth is a lot more likely to be a big strapping calf at weaning."

Wholeheartedly concur. Low Bwt should never be synonymous for nor confused with calving ease. Continual selection for light Bwt's (~75 lbs or less) will ultimately wreck as much financial havoc as going in the opposite direction. CED and when applicable, Stability should be closely scrutinized.

 

[kdhansen]

In looking at the EPD's, personally, I like Sure Fire's numbers better. Obviously his numbers are much more accurate as well. We don't like to be wildcatter/explorers. We like to follow a well proven trail.

I like to check a generation or two back and I was looking at the bottom side of Sure Fire... would hope the Thunder might help with the Grid Maker and In Focus (top side)feet (mostly claw) issues. Also looked at the dna profile/genomic scores... The two that I have believed more often than not, are the CED scores and the Tenderness scores. CED: Sure Fire 1, Dark Fire 11... good enough; Tenderness: Sure Fire 88, Dark Fire 18. I do like the Sure Fire bull, more so than any GAR in a long time! Decisions, decisions.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

In looking at the EPD's, personally, I like Sure Fire's numbers better. Obviously his numbers are much more accurate as well. We don't like to be wildcatter/explorers. We like to follow a well proven trail.

I like to check a generation or two back and I was looking at the bottom side of Sure Fire... would hope the Thunder might help with the Grid Maker and In Focus (top side)feet (mostly claw) issues. Also looked at the dna profile/genomic scores... The two that I have believed more often than not, are the CED scores and the Tenderness scores. CED: Sure Fire 1, Dark Fire 11... good enough; Tenderness: Sure Fire 88, Dark Fire 18. I do like the Sure Fire bull, more so than any GAR in a long time! Decisions, decisions.

GAR Sure Fire has a 15 CED when I last checked...was that a typo above?

 

[kdhansen]

Numbers are from Sure Fire and Dark Fire genomic scores (percentages). Sure Fire is in the top 1%, Dark Fire top 11% for CED. The percentages for Tenderness score is top 88% for Sure Fire, top 18% for Dark Fire. Clear as mud?

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

Ah. Sorry. I know the raw scores and our targets there. No clue on percentages but that completely makes sense.