Framescore Question
- Thread starter mitch2
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blackcowz
Well-known member
Yes, there are charts. No, it ain't the same across breeds, ages, or sexes. Attached is a good peice of literature on it.mitch2":3pc9vgmn said:
BULLS
Frame Score = -11.548 + .04878 (Height) - 0.0289 (Days of Age) +
0.00001947 (Days of Age)2 + 0.0000334 (Height) (Days of Age)
Age in -------------------------- Frame Score ---------------------------
Months 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 33.5 35.5 37.5 39.5 41.6 43.6 45.6 47.7 49.7
6 34.8 36.8 38.8 40.8 42.9 44.9 46.9 48.9 51.0
7 36.0 38.0 40.0 42.1 44.1 46.1 48.1 50.1 52.2
8 37.2 39.2 41.2 43.2 45.2 47.2 49.3 51.3 53.3
9 38.2 40.2 42.3 44.3 46.3 48.3 50.3 52.3 54.3
10 39.2 41.2 43.3 45.3 47.3 49.3 51.3 53.3 55.3
11 40.2 42.2 44.2 46.2 48.2 50.2 52.2 54.2 56.2
12 41.0 43.0 45.0 47.0 49.0 51.0 53.0 55.0 57.0
13 41.8 43.8 45.8 47.8 49.8 51.8 53.8 55.8 57.7
14 42.5 44.5 46.5 48.5 50.4 52.4 54.4 56.4 58.4
15 43.1 45.1 47.1 49.1 51.1 53.0 55.0 57.0 59.0
16 43.6 45.6 47.6 49.6 51.6 53.6 55.6 57.5 59.5
17 44.1 46.1 48.1 50.1 52.0 54.0 56.0 58.0 60.0
18 44.5 46.5 48.5 50.5 52.4 54.4 56.4 58.4 60.3
19 44.9 46.8 48.8 50.8 52.7 54.1 56.7 sa.7 60.6
20 45.1 47.1 49.1 51.0 53.0 55.0 56.9 58.9 60.9
21 45.3 47.3 49.2 51.2 53.2 55.1 57.1 59.1 61.0
HEIFERS
Frame Score = -11.7086 + 0.4723 (Height) - 0.0239 (Days of Age) +
0.0000146 (Days of Age)2 + 0.0000759 (Height) (Days of Age)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Age in -------------------------- Frame Score ---------------------------
Months 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 33.1 35.1 37.2 39.3 41.3 43.4 45.5 47.5 49.6
6 34.1 36.2 38.2 40.3 42.3 44.4 46.5 48.5 50.6
7 35.1 37.1 39.2 41.2 43.3 45.3 41.4 49.4 51.5
8 36.0 38.0 40.1 42.1 44.1 46.2 48.2 50.2 52.3
9 36.8 38.9 40.9 42.9 44.9 47.0 49.0 51.0 53.0
10 37.6 39.6 41.6 43.7 45.7 47.7 49.7 51.7 53.8
11 38.3 40.3 42.3 44.3 46.4 48.4 50.4 52.4 54.4
12 39.0 41.0 43.0 45.0 47.0 49.0 51.0 53.0 55.0
13 39.6 41.6 43.6 45.5 47.5 49.5 51.5 53.5 55.5
14 40.1 42.1 44.1 46.1 48.0 50.0 52.0 54.0 56.0
15 40.6 42.6 44.5 46.5 48.5 50.5 52.4 54.4 56.4
16 41.0 43.0 44.9 46.9 48.9 50.8 52.8 54.8 56.7
17 41.4 43.3 45.3 47.2 49.2 51.1 53.1 55.1 57.0
18 41.7 43.6 45.6 47.5 49.5 51.4 53.4 55.3 57.3
19 41.9 43.9 45.8 47.7 49.7 51.6 53.6 55.5 57.4
20 42.1 44.1 46.0 47.9 49.8 51.8 53.7 55.6 57.6
21 42.3 44.2 46.1 48.0 50.0 51.9 53.8 55.7 57.7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Adapted from Boggs, South Dakota State
University, 1991
Greater mature cow weight is associated with increased frame scores, which results in additional feed required for maintenance because of a larger body mass. Stocking rates and quantities of feed need to be adjusted to meet the demands of larger cows. Provided necessary feed is available, larger cows generally meet their higher requirements. Under favorable management, reproductive rates tend to be similar across frame size; however, when the availability of feed becomes restricted, larger framed cattle are more susceptible to reproductive failure. Increasing mature size is a concern and may require adjusting replacement heifer development programs in order to insure they reach heavier prebreeding weights necessary to attain puberty.
Large frame size is also associated with greater growth potential, longer finishing periods, and heavier slaughter weights. The generally preferred range for carcass weights of 650 to 850 pounds suggests the need to produce feeder cattle with a 5 to 7 range in frame scores. The current USDA feeder cattle grading system is based on the factors of frame size and muscle thickness. Three frame score designations are included: large, medium, and small, which relate to an evaluation by appearance of an animal's skeletal height in relation to its age and the weight at which an animal will produce a choice quality carcass with about .5 inches external fat at the 12th rib. Large frame steers and heifers would not be expected to produce choice carcasses until their live weight exceeds 1200 and 1000 pounds, respectively. Medium frame steers would be expected to produce choice carcasses at live weights of 1000 to 1200 pounds, and heifers at 850 to 1000 pounds. Small frame steers and heifers would produce choice carcasses at live weights of less than 1000 and 850 pounds, respectively.
An indication of frame size is very important when estimating growing and finishing cattle nutrient requirements and projected feed intake. Although larger framed cattle will generally have increased intakes, energy concentration in the feed that is used for gain (NEg) is lower than that of medium framed cattle. Furthermore, protein requirements for large framed steers have been based on medium framed steers that weigh 15% less. This results in a greater protein requirement for large compared to medium framed cattle.
Frame score is considered to be moderately to highly heritable. As such, frame score can be significantly changed through selection, primarily achieved through sire selection. With an heritability estimate of .40, about 40% of a bull's difference in frame score from herd average will be passed on to progeny.
Frame score measurements are descriptive of animal type and growth patterns in beef cattle. They are useful in evaluating animal nutritional requirements, characterizing target market weights, and aid in selection decisions.
novatech
Well-known member
blackcowz
Well-known member
mitch2":1fvl9d04 said:
OK, you asked!
-11.7086 + 0.4723 (52) - 0.0239 (1700) +0.0000146(1700)2 + 0.0000759 (52) (1700) = Frame score.
-11.7086 + 24.5596 - 40.63 + 0.04964 + 6.70956 = Frame Score. Huh. Gonna have a cow with -20 somethin' frame score, apparently. :???:
blackcowz":3dxhha14 said:mitch2":3dxhha14 said:
OK, you asked!
-11.7086 + 0.4723 (52) - 0.0239 (1700) +0.0000146(1700)2 + 0.0000759 (52) (1700) = Frame score.
-11.7086 + 24.5596 - 40.63 + 0.04964 + 6.70956 = Frame Score. Huh. Gonna have a cow with -20 somethin' frame score, apparently. :???:
I cannot get an answer that makes any sense at all.... reason I need for showing the math from someone way brighter than this bulb
Michele
blackcowz
Well-known member
mitch2":1kpoxutn said:blackcowz":1kpoxutn said:mitch2":1kpoxutn said:
OK, you asked!
-11.7086 + 0.4723 (52) - 0.0239 (1700) +0.0000146(1700)2 + 0.0000759 (52) (1700) = Frame score.
-11.7086 + 24.5596 - 40.63 + 0.04964 + 6.70956 = Frame Score. Huh. Gonna have a cow with -20 somethin' frame score, apparently. :???:
I cannot get an answer that makes any sense at all.... reason I need for showing the math from someone way brighter than this bulb
Michele
Don't show very good on my Algebra does it? :lol2: Thanks dun. Again, I though.....
Anyway, from the cow ya described, according to age, about a frame 6ish.
just use this to calculate frame score.
http://5barx.com/downloads/5BarX-FrameS ... ulator.xls
it's the same across breeds.
http://5barx.com/downloads/5BarX-FrameS ... ulator.xls
it's the same across breeds.
I can't get the the formula to work either, but the scale that the Hereford association would have you use actually has limited mature cow hieghts and there's a 48 month old (4 yrs) has 52 inches listed exactly as 5.0 so I'd guess she's that or a little better.
and here is that pdf from hereford.org . I think showsteers has the same one.
http://hereford.org/_Hereford/Documents ... Charts.pdf
http://hereford.org/_Hereford/Documents ... Charts.pdf
BC
Well-known member
The formula only works up to about 21 months of age. There is a chart at the end of this paper that has frame scores for mature cows:
http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu/pdf/Frame_Score.pdf
http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu/pdf/Frame_Score.pdf
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Breed & weight has NOTHING to do with frame score. Frame score is based on sex, age, and height at the hips (right across the hip bones - this is important, because they can vary A BUNCH in the hip area).
Once you know an animal's frame score AND their weight, you can easily get a picture in your mind as to what type cow/bull they are without SEEING them. (tall & skinny - short & fat, or just right )
Once you know an animal's frame score AND their weight, you can easily get a picture in your mind as to what type cow/bull they are without SEEING them. (tall & skinny - short & fat, or just right
)Victoria
Well-known member
mitch2":1hyeiq0w said:
I just pulled out my Canadian Angus Breeder Handbook and for a cow her age and her height she is dead on a frame score 5 according to them. No math involved, just look at the chart, that is a much better way of doing it imo. :lol2:
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Yes, don't try to CALCULATE a frame score, just look at the charts.
This site was posted above, it shows mature ages up to 4 years old.
http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu/pdf/Frame_Score.pdf
You must remember, these charts are based on the HIP HEIGHT - this is measured right at the hip bones. Not in front of or behind. Lay a board across their hip bones & measure up.
I have a flat piece of steel that hubby welded to our chute & we marked inches on it. As cattle stand in chute, I observe height & write it down - before they put their head in headlock. This is NOT real accurate, but gives us figures for records.
In order to be accurate, feet need to be at all 4 corners, head held in normal up position. Position of feet & head makes major difference in measurements.
This site was posted above, it shows mature ages up to 4 years old.
http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu/pdf/Frame_Score.pdf
You must remember, these charts are based on the HIP HEIGHT - this is measured right at the hip bones. Not in front of or behind. Lay a board across their hip bones & measure up.
I have a flat piece of steel that hubby welded to our chute & we marked inches on it. As cattle stand in chute, I observe height & write it down - before they put their head in headlock. This is NOT real accurate, but gives us figures for records.
In order to be accurate, feet need to be at all 4 corners, head held in normal up position. Position of feet & head makes major difference in measurements.
Oldtimer
Well-known member
When I hear some folks talk of frame size- I wonder how many have really taken the time and effort to be sure- or are just guesstimating?...And would be surprised...
A few years back as I thought in the back of my mind I was getting some frame creep-- I marked the chute- and several walk thru gates the cows and bulls have to travel thru with different colored paint coded marks 2" wide at heights of 46" to 60"...Then as I'm working with the cows daily- I can check if I want to on any questionable one- even the yearlings, as I have a copy of the AAA's frame to age chart taped in my cow record "bible" I pack with me all the time...
And actually I was pleasantly surprised that I didn't have that many in the 7 frame area (only have 3 that barely hit the 56" line left - with the majority now being in the 4- 5 frame range with a few 6's ) ....
Of the cows I sold last week-- 3 old high end 4 frame bred cows weighed 1143 and a younger 4 frame cow weighed 1285...An open 11 year old 6 frame weighed 1435....
Earlier this summer- I thought the two young bulls I bought with the idea of moderating/maintaining frame scores were a 4 frame and a 5 frame- just from judging looking at them out on the prairie- and comparing them to the other cows and bulls....But when I ran them thru the chute to pour them the other day and got a good measurement- for their ages the Legacy bull is an upper 3 frame and the Bannon of Wye is a mid 4 frame...Just what I was looking for...
A few years back as I thought in the back of my mind I was getting some frame creep-- I marked the chute- and several walk thru gates the cows and bulls have to travel thru with different colored paint coded marks 2" wide at heights of 46" to 60"...Then as I'm working with the cows daily- I can check if I want to on any questionable one- even the yearlings, as I have a copy of the AAA's frame to age chart taped in my cow record "bible" I pack with me all the time...
And actually I was pleasantly surprised that I didn't have that many in the 7 frame area (only have 3 that barely hit the 56" line left - with the majority now being in the 4- 5 frame range with a few 6's ) ....
Of the cows I sold last week-- 3 old high end 4 frame bred cows weighed 1143 and a younger 4 frame cow weighed 1285...An open 11 year old 6 frame weighed 1435....
Earlier this summer- I thought the two young bulls I bought with the idea of moderating/maintaining frame scores were a 4 frame and a 5 frame- just from judging looking at them out on the prairie- and comparing them to the other cows and bulls....But when I ran them thru the chute to pour them the other day and got a good measurement- for their ages the Legacy bull is an upper 3 frame and the Bannon of Wye is a mid 4 frame...Just what I was looking for...
SRBeef
Well-known member
This seems to be an important and interesting topic but I am somewhat baffled by the math.
Here is a picture of how I, in my innocence of things cattle, have been judging "Frame Score". Maybe a bit along the lines of Oldtimer's post above.
Basically my goal is to develop a herd of cattle based on the type of the two cows in the middle. I'm not sure what mathematical formula would show but that's the way I want them. Those two weigh a consistent 1200 lb, good milk and have a good calf. It will take a couple years but I'll get there.
The tall one on the left went for processing already since the picture.
This is the main way I've been determining the cull list. Put some grain in the fenceline feedbunk and walk along behind them. FWIW.
Here is a picture of how I, in my innocence of things cattle, have been judging "Frame Score". Maybe a bit along the lines of Oldtimer's post above.
Basically my goal is to develop a herd of cattle based on the type of the two cows in the middle. I'm not sure what mathematical formula would show but that's the way I want them. Those two weigh a consistent 1200 lb, good milk and have a good calf. It will take a couple years but I'll get there.
The tall one on the left went for processing already since the picture.
This is the main way I've been determining the cull list. Put some grain in the fenceline feedbunk and walk along behind them. FWIW.
