Flushing and ET Costs

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RazorbackRed

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OK. So i bought a really good purebred beefmaster heifer. I run a smallish herd of commercial cows. Planned on just keeping her as a momma and going on down the road.

Just curious to know what it would cost a guy to flush he eggs, create some embryos, and ET into my existing cows. Hypothetically giving me a purebred beefmaster calf crop.

Also, can someone walk me thrugh the process pros and cons?
 
I can only suggest that you visit or at least talk with a real professional. This is something that can make you or break you. You might contact some of the semen companies or visit some ranches that acutally do flushing etc.
 
Flushing is a good way to increase your herd in a shorter period of time but can be costly. I don't know if you have folks to choose from in your area as far as embryologists, but find one and go talk to them. We only have one in our area and he sure is busy but he is very good too!
We like to wait till the heifer has calved before starting a flush program. (This is at our embryologists recommendation). You will have the cost of the semen you use and the embryologist fees, if you end up with many embryos you can come out cost effective. If you don't get many or any can be very costly. Then you need to have good recips to put the embryo in and not all will take. Luckily my brother has been averaging 75% success on the recips taking. It has been very worthwhile to him.
The cost to take the cow to our guy and have the process done is around $1200 to $1500. But the last few we have done we did our own shots and prep and AI then took the cow to him to flush which reduced the cost considerably.
Sorry this is so long.... but anyway this is how we do it here.
 
Flushing can be a very effective way to drastically increase the influence of a female much like AI has increased the influence of sires. However, before flushing a cow you must have a plan. A couple of questions to ask yourself are: Is this cow valuable to others in the purebred business, not just to me? Will I have a strong enough market for her offspring to justify the increased cost of ET? Can I afford to take a loss if she doesn't produce any embryos or if none make pregnancies? How does holding my commercial cows open to use as recips affect my bottom line/breeding plan if they end up open?

All of those are questions that you must answer before you even begin an ET program. Now if you have answered those questions and you still want to try your hand at it, there are a couple ways to go about it. The one that we use and that is the most cost effective is to give all of the set up shots ourselves and then do the AI'ing ourselves. We get all of the drugs along with a regimen from our embryologist. We usually coordinate ours with someone else in the area so that the embryologist doesn't have to come down to flush one cow. The flushing is done on farm, but like I said most often it is at someone elses place since our facilities aren't quite the quality necessary..... they would work if forced to use them. We then either freeze the embryos or do live transfer. You can also take the donor to an ET facility and have them do everything for you. It is more expensive and in my opinion doesn't work as well. It is better to keep cows at home where they are not stressed by new surroundings, as well as the ability to feed and maintain the female like you want. There is also less risk of disease.

As far as costs go, drugs and semen typically run between $300 and $500 depending on the cost of the semen and then you have additional costs for synchronizing the recips. Flushing if I remember correctly costs $200 or $250. Then to freeze or transfer is $50 per embryo. So if you get 5 embryos which is slightly above average, and do live transfer, your cost would be roughly $1,000. Now this is give or take a couple hundred depending on cost of semen, embryologist charges which could differ from ours, boarding fees if you take the donor to the collection facility, AI'ing and shot costs if someone else does it for you. The best way to estimate your cost would be to find a embryologist that is close to you and that somebody you know uses and talk with them about it.

Hope this helps some..... I know it is a little lengthy but there is a lot to consider.
 
Angus In Texas":9593uxy0 said:
A couple of questions to ask yourself are: Is this cow valuable to others in the purebred business, not just to me? Will I have a strong enough market for her offspring to justify the increased cost of ET? Can I afford to take a loss if she doesn't produce any embryos or if none make pregnancies? How does holding my commercial cows open to use as recips affect my bottom line/breeding plan if they end up open?.

Yup. Does this cow offer value to others in the purebred business not just to me?

If your real goal is tying to build a registered herd, there are some great genetics out there. You could sell a bred commercial cow for $700-$800 and apply that toward another registered female and probably be money ahead.
 
Assume you end up with $200 per embryo. If you get 50% live calf birth (transfer without freezing should be in the 60-65% range, 50-55% with frozen) you will have $400/per calf in breeding costs above what you normally have plus the extra cost of development for bulls (assuming you would keep the commercial females anyway). Assuming you arent going to sell them at the sale barn, you are effectively putting your cows on "Pause" for a year with no income due to development time.

There is also the chance that you will get no viable embryos and still have to pay the $400 or so.
 
Aero":8x6937ot said:
There is also the chance that you will get no viable embryos and still have to pay the $400 or so.

We flushed a cow once, got four viable embryos, implanted three and froze one. One aborted short term, one aborted long term and third calved but died within 12 hours of birth...... oxygen deprivation. So we still have one frozen but otherwise it was money wasted. Not to mention the production year from the long term abortion and the lost calf. The short term abort was bred by the cleanup bull so she still calved.
 
It is all dependent upon the value of the progeny being produced. Plus when you compare it to AI... you might have $100 in an AI'd calf versus $200 in an ET calf so it's really not that much more. And naturally serviced calves depending on what you pay for bulls could cost that much as well. That all depends on what you pay for bulls, how long you keep them, how many cows they service and how much it costs to maintain that bull plus the loss of the ability to run one more producing female. Costs are all relative.
 
We had a little different situation. My son's show cow flushed 21 grade one embryos. The cost to freeze all the embryos was greater than my son had budgeted. Mom and dad had to come to his financial rescue. It was a blind flush and the calves are good, so it worked out. However, now we have a lot of frozen embryos left. Do you try to sell them or do you find more recips? We learned a lot. We were told 8 embryos would be a high number and that is what my son planned on.

If we had to do it again with this particular cow, we would use semen from two different bulls and dna the calves to determine the sire. I think he spent around $1000 at the center to set up, flush, and freeze the embryos. We spent another $120 to implant the embryos...this was before the armour coating that cost an additional $20 per embryo.
 
ffamom":1t820ztd said:
Do you try to sell them or do you find more recips? We learned a lot.

Dont even waste your time trying to sell them. You will get lots of interested people but almost nobody that will complete the transaction. Implant them in a cheap commercial recip and sell the pregnancy at a state sale (or any other conventional option).
 
I would leave any extras in the tank and later on if you start getting compliments about the calves then try to sell the embryos..... or possibly put them in for the next year. Some people believe that just because they have embryos they must get them into recips now. Sometimes it is better to try a few to see how the calves turn out before you put them all in and then in the end realize the calves leave something to be desired and you end up wasting a calving season on them.
 
ffamom
don't get in a rush either. There appears to be no shelf life similar to semen. We have been implanting embryos that were flushed in '99 and are running about 70% conception. This includes embryos using the glycerol freezing method.
 
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