Fire & Ice breedings

[Air gator]

I have an Angus cow with a milk epd of 18 and I don't think that was enough for her calf.
How much impact will it have if I breed her to a bull like Tex Playbook with a milk epd of +38 or Gar Prophet with a milk epd of +32. Any thoughts?

 

[WinterSpringsFarm]

IMO its genetics, and it will be hard to predict. If you could you'd be a millionaire. It could make a huge impact, moderate, or very little. I always breed to try and improve traits, so I'd say you can't go wrong.....till it does. ; )

 

[Ebenezer]

Never saw more than the creation of a wide range. Any reason to jump so high? If 18 is too low, is a bull with +25 enough? Do you really want double?

 

[pdfangus]

do you have enough environment to support holstein cows....what level of milk will your environment support? answer that question and you will have your target for milk epd...also recall that the target moves....an plus 18 cow today would probably milk a good bit better than a plus 18 cow from ten years ago. the plus 18 is compared to breed average and the breeds have been chasing milk for thirty years....

 

[Air gator]

I would not be looking to add milk if I thought the cow produced enough milk.
The bulls that I mentioned....Gar Prophet was in the top 25 Angus bulls by registrations up to and including 2017...
Tex Playbook is prominently displayed in this year's Select Sires beef catalog and one of the most popular young bulls out there. Also, you may have seen many posts about a bull named SAV Rainfall with a milk epd of +33. Another popular bull, Bubs Southern Charm has a milk epd of +30.

 

[blacksnake]

The milk EPD isn't compared to breed average. The angus breed average is 24. A milk EPD of 32 is in top 10 percentile. A milk EPD of 18 is in the 85 percentile.

 

[bse]

Never saw more than the creation of a wide range. Any reason to jump so high? If 18 is too low, is a bull with +25 enough? Do you really want double?

this would be my thoughts!!
if i was picking your choices by what your thinking, it would be Prophet he has the most milking daughters to be close to correct, bubs has like 6 the others 0

 

[Bovine breeder]

This is a very interesting topic. I've been wrestling with the milk EPD myself recently anyway. I think there was some discussion in another thread about it. The EPD definition reads "pounds of calf weaned attributed to milk production" that sounds good but how do we really know? I feel like most people just evaluate how well the calf grows and how big the udder is when reporting data. But many dairy experts tell me udder size does not mean much when it comes to true milk production. Which brings up the discussion about protein and fat content in the milk vs. fluid volume. But again, without actually measuring it, how do you know? I realize calf performance is a roundabout way of doing so, but it just isn't as scientific as I'd like it to be. Lol.

To circle back to the question, in the genomic data I've received on my cows, I've found milk has a huge variability. I used Hickok who is Average for milk, and had daughters with raw scores between 26 and 77. I would say milk is like any other trait in that the more generations you stack it into the cattle with a consistent approach, the more consistent the results will be. I would probably expect the fire and ice matings to land all over the board.

 

[Ebenezer]

Wehrmanns actually milked some Angus back in the 80s to know milk production. Since then, unless anybody else made those efforts, it has been a matrix determination between individual growth and mother's milk. All I ever learned from experience is that too little can cost you a little, much too little can cost you more and too much can cost you the most. The droughts hurt all and cold late springs will take the biggest toll on spring calving herds if there is too much.

 

[Bovine breeder]

Wehrmanns actually milked some Angus back in the 80s to know milk production. Since then, unless anybody else made those efforts, it has been a matrix determination between individual growth and mother's milk. All I ever learned from experience is that too little can cost you a little, much too little can cost you more and too much can cost you the most. The droughts hurt all and cold late springs will take the biggest toll on spring calving herds if there is too much.

I'd be interested to know their findings. If the heaviest milking cows raised the biggest calves, or some combination of fluid volume and fat&protein. Or if the cow with the most genetic growth potential and average milk did?

 

[Ebenezer]

They were verifying the milk production at that time. It is now generations old so it will not readily apply to current cattle. That was back with the OB5 cow, 9J9, 1B1, 1B2 and such. Probably prior to 1B1 and 1B2.

 

[Cdcollett]

I'd probably cull the cow if she doesn't raise a good calf.

 

[76 Bar]

I'd probably cull the cow if she doesn't raise a good calf.

KISS solves a lot of problems.

 

[Ebenezer]

I'd probably cull the cow if she doesn't raise a good calf.

I'd wear her out raising crossbred calves or if the market is good for bred cows sell her at a younger age in 3rd trimester at the barn. Cash flow!