fescue no milk

[cowboy]

Agmantoo
In answer to your question yes and I am no expert by a long shot. But I know what works for me. All bulls differ but I would say the time and experience help bulls get good at what they do and prime for a bull would be 4 - 6 years old.
To explain I will tell you what I do I think I really push my main bull. I calve end of Feb 1st - May and again middle Sept. - near Christmas. Half spring half fall. There is 85 cows in this unit managed as one group. I take the bull out for several reasons if I don't cows gain 2 months per year causing inopportune calving and most heifer calves get bred at 7 - 8 months of age.
Getting back to your herd, by calving year round many of your cows probably come in at same time could not be evenly spaced 8 per month. Which is near 100 when 3 - 4 -5 cows come in same time. He will miss some. They will be back in less than a month. It is a snowballing effect. As he looses body condition he also looses seamen quality which causes more cows to take longer to get bred. Not to mention calves that start cycling.
While my bull was resting several months twice a year. I fed him some high quality feed and he put on several many hundred pounds flesh and really got ready for those cows.
Sounds like your pastures are really good which would say high fertility in not causing my problem.
Don't know why they eat dirt, does salt feeder ever get low so they lick where salt / mineral was spilt in past.
No implants however all heifers get fed rumensin from weaning through breading.
I compare with my neighbors all the time no one seems to have much problem other than I notice a tail switch missing sometimes.
One difference is most all never have any grass very seldom dose grass blades reach 1".The cattle eat all of the weeds and everything.
Cattle never been vaccinated and are lucky to be afforded white salt.
Another difference is most of my calves wean 650 - 700. Their's at 400 sometimes their's has two calves one 300 and one 500. That is 2 years old not kidding. Could managing / rotating cause fescue to be worse? Don't mean to so rough on neighbors, some are doing good job. Just different ,not rotating, very few inputs. No fescue problems.
Thanks for help

 

[agmantoo]

Your comments about the cattle heat cycling have been observed by me. It is not much different than a lot of females living in the same dormitory. I do not give my cattle a two month rest and I want a heifer to calve on her second birthday. I want to gain a calf or two over the productive life of the cow. I also leave the retained heifers in the herd. I cannot explain why but those retained heifers seem to always cycle to where they calve around 24 months of age. Folks on this site insinuate that this is not possible but it is true. I am a low cost producer but I never stress the cows. Few shots are given since I have a closed herd. I do not have a vet. The animals are fed very well and I see them every day and observe for any health issues. No grain is ever fed. Cows do not get a second chance if they have calving or related problems or behavior issues. Feeder calves are typically sold 4 times per year. I feel that I am more apt to get an average of the market rather than the highs or the lows with this marketing technique. The more frequent cash flow is appreciated also.

Regarding the rotational grazing of the fescue. I do have lots of legumes in with the fescue and I usually sow some Marshall ryegrass for late Winter grazing. Stockpiled fescue is what carries me through the what would be to most folks hay feeding season. Stockpiled fescue, once frosted on, is a very high protein feed. Much higher than fescue hay.

The areas where the cattle eat dirt is not near where salt and minerals are fed. There obviously are some type of deposits in the soil as the cattle only do this at a few locations on the farm.

What frame size are you cattle?

 

[cowboy]

Agmantoo
Sounds like you have the low cost production down pat and is working well for you. As far as the bull if he is keeping cows bred his job is complete.
I also have red and white clover and this is the first fall I have drilled rye into pastures 50 acres now 4" tall. Applied 30 nitrogen last week hoping it dose well. If it dose I will use it next year.
I have pondered many times would I be better off with the route you have chose. I would have to reduce my herd size. But could trim enormous amount of inputs there for selling fewer cattle might net me more money.
In thinking about fescue problems no milk thought in past years when replacement heifers were bought they failed miserably. No milk or at least not enough to raise a good calf. They didn't stay here very long.
This has been the rule for 40 years these were very fine high bred high many pure bred.
As a youngster in 4-H I showed probably 25 pure bred heifers and as I think of it none ever worked out not even one descendant.
My home bred heifers always work much better. Purchased cattle were local most from same county. My cows are frame score 6 -6.5 bulls same all calves would grade M - 1 all black except 4 with white face and they have so much black blood most of there calves are solid black. Now experimenting with Hereford bull.
Can't even decide if it is the fescue or something else. The classic fescue Symptoms is missing never a problem breading back.
Lack of milk seems to occur around 4th or 5th calf on home bred cattle. Bought cattle never have milk. Many cows without milk get milk several days to a week after calving. Some never do.
Many cows have hoof problems, cracks on both halves of hoof run from tip to where hoof meats hide. Looks like pressure inside busted the hooves open.
Thanks Anyone else jump right in there.

 

[agmantoo]

Have you ever observed that the hoof problem is the same or worse in the cattle that have the major milk problems?

One major difference in our operations is that my cattle are a much smaller frame size. My average broodcow weighs around 1125 lbs. or less. I do not have a set of scales and depend on cull cattle sale weights to determine the poundage.

I will share this. I know that I am a low cost producer but I was once a "me to" type feeder calf producer. I never made any money until I switched to an unconventional producer. There is a post on this site where $50 per calf is discussed as a typical profit. The extension agent for my area says that the average producer here makes less the $80/calf sold. If that was my situation I would sell the herd tomorrow. You may want to make some changes as you discussed.

 

[cowboy]

Agmanto
Probably 50% of cows have some type of hoof abnormalities, split hooves, rocking chair feet , and a few cross toes. Cattle usually don't exhibit all signs. The cow with out milk will not necessarily be one with bad feet and often does not have the other signs, missing tail, rough hair, heat stress.
Could my grass be too good causing founder?