fescue/native/wild/white clover

[talltimber]

I have quite a bit of the small white clover in my pastures. Some pastures more than others. It's to the point of being concerned about bloat at times. I think I read an article somewhere, but can't find it now, about if the white clover hay molds in the bale it can become toxic. Do you any of you know any more about this?
I am piddling with rotational grazing this year. The main herd of 16 head (counting old bull) has been on the first paddock for three weeks and are just now making a dent in it. Their next planned section, I looked at yesterday, has as much clover in it as any, a high percentage in at least the spot I could see without getting out there and tromping it down looking. I am getting to the point of needing to make some hay or buy some for next year. I have plenty of old hay, some of it I will have to put in gulleys, if I can get it there. The rest of it should be manageable, and probably about 80 bales or so. But I have some heifers to take care of this time and want some better hay for them. Anyway, I was thinking I might try to bale this patch, and just skip it this rotation (or whenever I can get it baled) and come back to it later. What can I expect from the pasture later, after taking hay off of it? It's not been hayed in years.

 

[RiverHills]

We cut hay off our pasture fields every year. It works fine as long as it don't get to hot and dry before it gets some growth back on it. The white clover can be a pain to get dry but makes a good hay mix if done right. We also cut it higher to help speed up regrowth and don't pasture it as hard until winter.

No trouble from the moldy clover that we know of.

 

[talltimber]

That's what I was thinking might be best to try. Cut it pretty high. Thank you.

Do you fertilize your pastures yearly, or if not, do you see a substantial decrease in growth/quality of your pastures?

 

[dun]

The fields we cut for hay, fescue, wild dutch clover and OG we will graze in the fall, or if it's a mild winter and not a problem with water lines freezing we will graze it as stockpiled. Clover is a pain to get to cure without the fescue getting too dry, but we've never had any issue with the hay causing a problem when fed.
We mow the stuff at 3-4 inches so that it doesn;t burn from the heat. This year I raked it once when the stuff on top was really dry, let it sit a couple of hours and baled it. The clover seemed to cure better and the fescue wasn;t too dry to bale.
We soil test every other year and fertilize to the specs in the test.

 

[Jabes0623]

That's what I was thinking might be best to try. Cut it pretty high. Thank you.

Do you fertilize your pastures yearly, or if not, do you see a substantial decrease in growth/quality of your pastures?

I was on the fence myself about fertilizer & soil tests so I decided to do a little side by side comparison. These two pics were taken from the same field probably about 30 yards apart. I tested the soil & fertilized exactly as it called for. I found fertilizer to be worth it's weight in gold.

They say a pic is worth a 1,000 words. And yes that's an electric leaf blower, it was all I had in the truck to give it some scale.

Fertilized...



Not fertilized...

 

[R V]

Jabes0623,
Impressive difference and thanks for the pictures! Would you mind telling us what the cost difference per acre was?
Ron

 

[Jabes0623]

Jabes0623,
Impressive difference and thanks for the pictures! Would you mind telling us what the cost difference per acre was?
Ron

The total cost per acre for fertilizer & lime applied was right around $200. It was done in one application last fall & those pics were taken just a few days ago.

Obviously your costs may be much different than mine were. But that particular field had been hayed for 15+ years with absolutely no fertilizer or lime apllied at all during that entire time so it was in very poor shape.

The area with no fertilizer is just a strip on the uphill edge of the field I had the guy applying the fertilizer purposefully skip so I could see a true side by side comparison of the fertilizers effect.

 

[Banjo]

Jabes0623,
Impressive difference and thanks for the pictures! Would you mind telling us what the cost difference per acre was?
Ron

The total cost per acre for fertilizer & lime applied was right around $200. It was done in one application last fall & those pics were taken just a few days ago.

Obviously your costs may be much different than mine were. But that particular field had been hayed for 15+ years with absolutely no fertilizer or lime apllied at all during that entire time so it was in very poor shape.

The area with no fertilizer is just a strip on the uphill edge of the field I had the guy applying the fertilizer purposefully skip so I could see a true side by side comparison of the fertilizers effect.

Is that ryegrass or something else?

 

[Jabes0623]

Banjo, there is some rye grass in there. It's also fescue, orchardgrass , bluegrass, timothy & obviously clover.

I'm sure there's probably other native grasses in there I can't identify.

 

[Lucky_P]

talltimber,
I think what you were thinking of was 'moldy sweetclover poisoning'.
Sweetclover, Melilotus officinalis, is not the same as the little white clover you described, which is probably Trifolium pratense... or something closely related.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/toxic ... oning.html

 

[R V]

Jabes0623,
Impressive difference and thanks for the pictures! Would you mind telling us what the cost difference per acre was?
Ron

The total cost per acre for fertilizer & lime applied was right around $200. It was done in one application last fall & those pics were taken just a few days ago.

Obviously your costs may be much different than mine were. But that particular field had been hayed for 15+ years with absolutely no fertilizer or lime apllied at all during that entire time so it was in very poor shape.

The area with no fertilizer is just a strip on the uphill edge of the field I had the guy applying the fertilizer purposefully skip so I could see a true side by side comparison of the fertilizers effect.

Thanks!

 

[talltimber]

talltimber,
I think what you were thinking of was 'moldy sweetclover poisoning'.
Sweetclover, Melilotus officinalis, is not the same as the little white clover you described, which is probably Trifolium pratense... or something closely related.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/toxic ... oning.html

I think that is the article, or one very similar, is what I read. Your ID of the clover got me to a page that mentioned trifolium repens. I looked for pics, and I am pretty sure that's what I have. Also mentions other names as Dutch clover and Ladino clover, although wiki mentions the Ladino may be reserved for the larger varieties and the Dutch for the smaller like I have. At least that's the way I read it.
Thank you. The other articles I found doesn't mention the dangers of molding toxicity so I think you are correct. That, and since no one else has had trouble with it.

 

[dun]

talltimber,
I think what you were thinking of was 'moldy sweetclover poisoning'.
Sweetclover, Melilotus officinalis, is not the same as the little white clover you described, which is probably Trifolium pratense... or something closely related.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/toxic ... oning.html

I think that is the article, or one very similar, is what I read. Your ID of the clover got me to a page that mentioned trifolium repens. I looked for pics, and I am pretty sure that's what I have. Also mentions other names as Dutch clover and Ladino clover, although wiki mentions the Ladino may be reserved for the larger varieties and the Dutch for the smaller like I have. At least that's the way I read it.
Thank you. The other articles I found doesn't mention the dangers of molding toxicity so I think you are correct. That, and since no one else has had trouble with it.

The ladinos are the improved and larger leaved clovers, proably other variations too. The whites are all tri. repens, just different variaties of it. The smaller white clover is commonly referred to as wild dutch clover. It doesn;t have the mass that ladino has but it seems to grow everywhere with no encouragment.

 

[Lucky_P]

Ooops. Spouting off the top of my head, without checking... y'all are right... the white clovers are T.repens;
T.pratense is red clover.
Thanks for the correction!

Somebody, somewhere, once referred to Ladino clover as white clover with a turbocharger.

 

[MikeBo]

That's what I was thinking might be best to try. Cut it pretty high. Thank you.

Do you fertilize your pastures yearly, or if not, do you see a substantial decrease in growth/quality of your pastures?

I was on the fence myself about fertilizer & soil tests so I decided to do a little side by side comparison. These two pics were taken from the same field probably about 30 yards apart. I tested the soil & fertilized exactly as it called for. I found fertilizer to be worth it's weight in gold.

They say a pic is worth a 1,000 words. And yes that's an electric leaf blower, it was all I had in the truck to give it some scale.

Fertilized...



Not fertilized...

Wow, what a difference...must have been very poor fertility. Thanks for the pictures.

Mike