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Fertilizing Winter wheat

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504RP

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Talked with an Extension agent today who told me i should put about 150 lbs urea to the acre out now. Temperature is getting down in the 30's of a night. Not getting much rain. Told the agent without rain i thought putting nitrate out most of it would be lost through evaporation ? And with the temps as low as it gets might affect the ability for wheat to grow ?

The agent says i would get more out of the urea than i would think and that cold temps wont affect the growth of wheat ?

Anybody had any experince putting urea on wheat in winter without rain ?
 

kenny thomas

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No matter what the grass or grain it needs rain and warm temps to grow. I disagree with your agent on this. And yes Urea will evaporate worse than ammonia nitrate
 
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504RP

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No matter what the grass or grain it needs rain and warm temps to grow. I disagree with your agent on this. And yes Urea will evaporate worse than ammonia nitrate
Thats what i am thinking too. Talked with a neighbor who is a 5th generation cattle farmer who thinks that agent is wrong too.

I wonder what kind of experience and education it takes to be an Extension agent ?
 

kenny thomas

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Thats what i am thinking too. Talked with a neighbor who is a 5th generation cattle farmer who thinks that agent is wrong too.

I wonder what kind of experience and education it takes to be an Extension agent ?
Here it takes a master's degree in ag, soils, animals, or a closely related field. Some don't show it though
 
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504RP

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I am not sure what it takes to become a extension agent here but i am not convinced the ones i have dealt with are that much more knowledgeable about some of the things i have asked them about than i am.

Before i drilled this 36 acres in wheat i baled hay off of it. The hay got rained on after i had winrowed it. So i had the extension agent pull samples on it before i hauled it off the field.

While he was there i ask him what all i needed to do to drill it in wheat. The field was cut close to the ground. It has alot of fescue scattered through it already. All and all it produces good hay, had bermuda, crabgrass and other decent grass mixed with it.

The Extension agent tells me the first thing i need to do is spray the field with round up, kill everything out.

Needn't to say i didn't follow his advice.
 
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504RP

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After dealing with these extension agents and listening what they have to say. I have been researching the internet about how to analyze soil samples. I think i could do that myself. I am really wondering about some of the advice i have gotten from these extension agents.

We had one agent years ago who had retired out of the navy He told me he had never done any farming of any kind in his entire life. He got the angent job because he had a bachelor's degree.
 

BFE

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Don't know where you're at, but I wouldn't apply the N yet. Around here, most all people apply their N on a freeze in February. I would use ammonium nitrate or the coated urea, which is temperature sensitive. It won't break down until warmer weather. Most growers have also switched to split application, one in February and one in late March/ early April.
 

simme

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Don't know where you're at, but I wouldn't apply the N yet. Around here, most all people apply their N on a freeze in February. I would use ammonium nitrate or the coated urea, which is temperature sensitive. It won't break down until warmer weather. Most growers have also switched to split application, one in February and one in late March/ early April.
Is ammonium nitrate still available in your area? Here, the nitrogen fertilizers are ammonium sulfate and urea. Been that way since the OK city bombing. Maybe the paperwork for ammonium nitrate is just too much, but can't be found here. Ammonium nitrate puts the nitrogen in the plant so much better it seems.
 

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I went to a workshop a few years back. One of the speakers was a retired extension agent. He told how after he retired he went back to look up some of the farmers he had worked with. He said that he found out that all of the ones who had followed his advise had gone broke. If you plan to follow the advise of an extension agent or anyone else look for ones who are not 100% book learning. Find ones who at least do things part time with their own dollars and have the book learning.
 

bird dog

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Since I have farmed in four different counties in the last 20 years, I have conversations with a bunch of them. Some are very good, some, some are very poor. A bunch of them think they know it all. It doesn't take but one visit to know which is which. The old saying that those can do, do, those that can't teach comes to mind.
I have had better luck with the fine folks at the NRCS.
 

Dave

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Since I have farmed in four different counties in the last 20 years, I have conversations with a bunch of them. Some are very good, some, some are very poor. A bunch of them think they know it all. It doesn't take but one visit to know which is which. The old saying that those can do, do, those that can't teach comes to mind.
I have had better luck with the fine folks at the NRCS.
There is a lot of variation with NRCS too. I worked for a conservation district for 20+ years. We worked directly with the NRCS. There is a lot of them who are lucky to have a government job. Just saying.....
 

BFE

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Is ammonium nitrate still available in your area? Here, the nitrogen fertilizers are ammonium sulfate and urea. Been that way since the OK city bombing. Maybe the paperwork for ammonium nitrate is just too much, but can't be found here. Ammonium nitrate puts the nitrogen in the plant so much better it seems.
Mostly urea here anymore.
 

ClodHopper37869

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I went to a workshop a few years back. One of the speakers was a retired extension agent. He told how after he retired he went back to look up some of the farmers he had worked with. He said that he found out that all of the ones who had followed his advise had gone broke. If you plan to follow the advise of an extension agent or anyone else look for ones who are not 100% book learning. Find ones who at least do things part time with their own dollars and have the book learning.
Here in the hills of East TN, SW VA, It goes like this, "If you farm the way your Daddy & Granddad farmed you will go broke, If you do everything extension agent says do you'll go broke quicker"!
 
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504RP

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Don't know where you're at, but I wouldn't apply the N yet. Around here, most all people apply their N on a freeze in February. I would use ammonium nitrate or the coated urea, which is temperature sensitive. It won't break down until warmer weather. Most growers have also switched to split application, one in February and one in late March/ early April.
I am in North West Arkansas along the Arkansas river valley. Done a little research last night on the net. Was reading an article about split nitrategon applications like you described. They was talking something about how doing that the plants get a slower, longer lasting feed. I am going to read it over again. For me it was a complicated read, at the same time very informative. They were using bushels of corn increase in production by slow feeding rather than putting one big application of nitrigen all at once.

I can get either Ammonium nitrate or urea here. They were talking something about a way to hold the nitrogen in the soil near the roots of the plant that would avoid letting the nitrogen be asorbed into the soil deeper than the soil level.

Also said something that because of the growing demand on farmers to produce more bushels of corn or wheat (basically all crops) per acre. By the year 2050 the amount of nitrogen a farmer will be allowed to put on their crops will be dictated by the government.
 

BC

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Your question on fertilizing wheat has several more questions to be able to give an answer.
1. Is this for grazing?
2. If it is for grazing, how soon do you need the grazing?
3. What if any fertilizer was been applied at planting?

What works in one part of the world doesn't in others. I just fertilized my ryegrass about 3 weeks ago. The nitrogen source was urea as that is all that was available. Only heavy dews until last night when we got 0.4 inch. I need to start limit grazing at Christmas. Will top dress again after Valentine Day.
 
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504RP

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Your question on fertilizing wheat has several more questions to be able to give an answer.
1. Is this for grazing?
2. If it is for grazing, how soon do you need the grazing?
3. What if any fertilizer was been applied at planting?

What works in one part of the world doesn't in others. I just fertilized my ryegrass about 3 weeks ago. The nitrogen source was urea as that is all that was available. Only heavy dews until last night when we got 0.4 inch. I need to start limit grazing at Christmas. Will top dress again after Valentine Day.
I plan on grazing it. I drilled it Oct 8th. I haven't applied any fertlizer. It has come and looks good. It has been dry with very little rain up until last night. We finally got about an inch of rain.

I have never drilled wheat or grazed cattle on it. This is a learning curve for me.
 

pdfangus

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I didn't catch where you are....
I am in virginia.
the extension service in our state gets a lot of lip service but it is no longer an essential part of the university and is constantly under funded and they have bought out all of the older experienced agents.....
be that as it may....
here producers have to have a nutrient management plan to participate in any government programs.
I am a nutrient management planner with over twenty years experience.
we would never advise anyone to put out 150 lbs of nitrogen on small grain at one time.
we plan normally three split applications....hopefully when the crop is green and growing so that it uses the nitrogen rater than volatizing off.
 
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504RP

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I didn't catch where you are....
I am in virginia.
the extension service in our state gets a lot of lip service but it is no longer an essential part of the university and is constantly under funded and they have bought out all of the older experienced agents.....
be that as it may....
here producers have to have a nutrient management plan to participate in any government programs.
I am a nutrient management planner with over twenty years experience.
we would never advise anyone to put out 150 lbs of nitrogen on small grain at one time.
we plan normally three split applications....hopefully when the crop is green and growing so that it uses the nitrogen rater than volatizing off.
Putting the nitrogen out in smaller applications like you are talking about is a better way of applying it from what i have read also. I am located in NorthWest Arkansas by the way.

As bad as i would like to apply nitrogen to that crop of wheat i have coming up right now. I am holding off until i am more knowledgeable about how much and when to apply it.

I went ahead and took soil samples, dropped them off at the extension office so they could send them to the university of Arkansas to be tested. Waiting on the results to get back. But i have my reservations as to just how much i can trust their results after listening to what these extension agents have to say.

I am not enrolled in any type of NRCS program with this wheat field. So the exspense is all on me.

I do wish i knew of someone with your knowledge and experience to ask for advice in my area though.

I am going to learn how to do soil analysis myself. It can't be that complicated i don't think. At least i will be gambling that the money i am spending on fertilizer is being spent because i feel it needs to. Rather than because someone who i don't know if they know what they are talking about or not thinks i need to be putting fertilizer out in the manner and amounts they are recommending. They don't have nothing to lose or gain.

I am the one who loses or gains from it.
 

pdfangus

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there are numerous private labs around the country that can do a basic soil test. most of the land grant universities also will do a good job of testing....in our state the university testing is free for bonafide agricultural producers...

the interpretation of the results is the key.....even the greenest ag extenison agents I have experienced know not to put down 150 lbs of nitrogen all at one time....

one problem may be that your area does not have an Agricultural Extension agent....Extension has other agents like urban agents and family and nutrition agents and 4-h only agents....and if there is no ag agent then one of them is probably covering the duties ....

one new development in Virginia this year is the Department of Conservation and Recreation will pay for nutrient management plans written by certified planners....this is a major step forward.....

all a producer has to do is contact a planner or DCR and request a plan....

Any GOOD farm supply store should also be able to give you some advice on fertilizer applications....in our area many of them have certified nutrient management planners on staff....they will do your plans if you do business with them...many will make the applications for you....only problem is you are in line with the rest of the customers for application scheduling...we have a couple of private applicators who specialize in smaller farms...

one more option here is if you can get permitted for Biosolids application....the biosolids companies are required to write you a nutrient management plan....
 

BC

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there are numerous private labs around the country that can do a basic soil test. most of the land grant universities also will do a good job of testing....in our state the university testing is free for bonafide agricultural producers...

the interpretation of the results is the key.....even the greenest ag extenison agents I have experienced know not to put down 150 lbs of nitrogen all at one time....

one problem may be that your area does not have an Agricultural Extension agent....Extension has other agents like urban agents and family and nutrition agents and 4-h only agents....and if there is no ag agent then one of them is probably covering the duties ....

one new development in Virginia this year is the Department of Conservation and Recreation will pay for nutrient management plans written by certified planners....this is a major step forward.....

all a producer has to do is contact a planner or DCR and request a plan....

Any GOOD farm supply store should also be able to give you some advice on fertilizer applications....in our area many of them have certified nutrient management planners on staff....they will do your plans if you do business with them...many will make the applications for you....only problem is you are in line with the rest of the customers for application scheduling...we have a couple of private applicators who specialize in smaller farms...

one more option here is if you can get permitted for Biosolids application....the biosolids companies are required to write you a nutrient management plan....
The original post said 150 lbs of urea which is 69 lbs of nitrogen. You are 100% correct on split applications being the way to go.
 

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