Feeling the horns of the uterus

[inyati13]

I related to someone that the last cow I AI'd, I could feel the fork of the uterus at the anterior end of the cervix. The reply I got was that the cow must have recently had a calf. That is true but I stated that I also locate the fork of the uterus on heifers. In fact, recently I sold a yearling heifer who I had never seen cycle because when I palpated her, I thought the horns of the uterus were thin and weak. Those are not the proper terms but that was my assessment.

I am confident I can feel the uterus. Not on every heifer or cow but I usually find it on most of them. I did not think this was outstanding until the conversation I recently had with my friend who said even those who are very sensitive in their abiltiy to feel the reproductive tract never feel the horns of the uterus.

My question is this: How many of the people who do their own AI are able to feel the horns of the uterus? I know I do and I assumed that most people do as I use the forks of the uterus as a landmark in making my decision on where to deposit the semen. My goal is to go through the cervix, put my index finger on the tip of the gun, then find the fork, pull the gun tip back a little and deposit the semen just back of the fork. Is this not what everyone tries to do?

 

[dun]

I don;t for the simple reason I bever reach in that far. I deposit the semen just past the cervix. I feel for the tip of the sheath and when I can just feel it I push the plunger. That may be the old fashioned way, School was in the 70s and that's what they classified as being "on target"

 

[Lucky_P]

Ron,
The wife does all the AI work. I do all the pregnancy palpation.
Yeah, I can feel the horns - on open cows. Most of the pregnancies are into the 4-5 month range, so I'm feeling for other things.

 

[Putangitangi]

If I'm looking for the horns, I can sometimes find them. When I'm inseminating, I'm not looking for them. I do as Dun says, deposit just inside the uterus at the end of the cervix. The gap from there to the division is only very small. I'd think you risk going up one horn or the other if you think you're doing it where you can feel the split.

 

[cow pollinater]

I feel the horns on around ten percent of what I breed. Usually it's on accident as I reach in to grab and don't feel anything and when I come back I wind up with the horns in my hand. I never use them as an indication of where to deposit semen as you cannot feel where the horns split. You CAN feel the very end of the cervix.

 

[Nesikep]

While we're on this, I'm looking for a good diagram of the repro tract, if possible with a few different stages of pregnancy... I'd like to already get better at preg checking, and well, at this point if there's a 60 lb calf in there I can find that alright, but some people can preg check much earlier, and I can't.. from there perhaps I'll venture further

 

[regolith]

If I can feel the horns during AI it's accidental.
If I go looking for them (to PD) I always find them if they're in reach... if she's heavy pregnant they may not be.

I had a vet here the other day doing PDs and training a young vet, asked if anyone in the clinic would train farmers and the answer was a firm 'no'.
She reckons farmers can't do this because they don't get enough practice.

The reason I asked was because my PD abilities this year have really sucked, apparently I'm finding non-existent calves (and I do know where the rumen sits). However getting the vet in cleared a few things up, some of these cows have been pregnant and slipped the calf.
Now I'm curious how many cows resorb the calf rather than expel it and if there's a certain stage of pregnancy when they must expel it rather than let it break down inside them... because what I've been finding on PD would make sense if the cow had slipped and still had a large uterus when I check her.

One previous vet twice said I could detect more than he could, but that may well have been due to a difference in the way the uterus was lying when I got him to confirm what I'd found a few days later. It's certainly not as easy as I'd like it to be!

 

[regolith]

While we're on this, I'm looking for a good diagram of the repro tract, if possible with a few different stages of pregnancy... I'd like to already get better at preg checking, and well, at this point if there's a 60 lb calf in there I can find that alright, but some people can preg check much earlier, and I can't.. from there perhaps I'll venture further

Nesi: ask TB, he knows this stuff.
Basically if you're familiar with AI, go in find the cervix and the horns, if it all feels like an open cow she's open (or very early in pregnancy). If the cervix is way over the pelvic girdle and you can't pick it up or reach the horns that's a pretty good sign that there's a heavy calf pulling it down... you might feel the calf itself in that space.
Now I had a heifer come home in late April, looked open, when I PD her cervix was on the edge of the pelvis I could pick it up but couldn't reach the horns to confirm if she was open. She didn't cycle, her udder has just gone loose about a week ago, vet has confirmed her pregnant two days ago and I'd say she's got to be due in the second half of October (right at the end of the calving season). So she was about twelve to fifteen weeks when I checked her.
Checked one back in March that should have been eight weeks, felt like an open cow. I've found eight weeks pregnancies before but couldn't find this one. Haven't had her checked by the vet, she's never cycled since mating

 

[inyati13]

If I'm looking for the horns, I can sometimes find them. When I'm inseminating, I'm not looking for them. I do as Dun says, deposit just inside the uterus at the end of the cervix. The gap from there to the division is only very small. I'd think you risk going up one horn or the other if you think you're doing it where you can feel the split.

Ruth, I pull the tip back from the fork. That is why I take a moment to find the fork. So that some of the semen may run down into each side.

 

[inyati13]

I feel the horns on around ten percent of what I breed. Usually it's on accident as I reach in to grab and don't feel anything and when I come back I wind up with the horns in my hand. I never use them as an indication of where to deposit semen as you cannot feel where the horns split. You CAN feel the very end of the cervix.

Forgive me CP and I know your light dwarfs mine in this arena. Maybe I have delicate feminine hands and you have hit yours too many times with a hammer. :lol: But at least I think I am feeling where they split. When I feel the cervix, I see how it is moving. Then I slide my hand palm down back a little more on the floor of the pelvis. At that point I usually feel the two horns of the uterus under my hand. I can flex my index finger back toward me or better said pick with it and feel out about where the fork is. On some it is very dramatic how clear the feeling is.

My hands are in pretty good shape having pushed a pencil most of my life. My hands are small and forearms are thin. I don't know if that is the secret. I will say that the instructor encouraged us to explore the anatomy during the two days of practical work on the 45 cows we used. We also had a couple pregnant cows that he used to train us briefly on palpation.

 

[Hook]

We were taught to go all the way in and palpate the entire tract to reduce the risk of ai'ing a pregnant cow. And like someone said it helps to stay familiar with the tract for preg checking

 

[TexasBred]

Ron,
The wife does all the AI work. I do all the pregnancy palpation.
Yeah, I can feel the horns - on open cows. Most of the pregnancies are into the 4-5 month range, so I'm feeling for other things.

Same here. She breeds, I palpate. Horns are very easy to find and the only thing you have available to make a call on a 30-60 day bred cow. Seldom have to go in past your wrist to find them.

 

[dun]

We were taught to go all the way in and palpate the entire tract to reduce the risk of ai'ing a pregnant cow. And like someone said it helps to stay familiar with the tract for preg checking

How often have you seen a bred cow in full standing heat?

 

[Hook]

I haven't. This was based off ftai protocols and not on standing.

 

[Jake]

I feel for the uterine horns on every animal. At one point I tried to deposit half of the semen in each horn and have tried to find the ovulating ovary several times to try to deposit the semen in that horn. Simply not worth the time on the basis of improving conception rates but is good for keeping you familiar with the reproduction system.

 

[Nesikep]

Regolith, I'm not familiar with AI other than what I've learned from reading around here

 

[cow pollinater]

I feel the horns on around ten percent of what I breed. Usually it's on accident as I reach in to grab and don't feel anything and when I come back I wind up with the horns in my hand. I never use them as an indication of where to deposit semen as you cannot feel where the horns split. You CAN feel the very end of the cervix.

Forgive me CP and I know your light dwarfs mine in this arena. Maybe I have delicate feminine hands and you have hit yours too many times with a hammer. :lol: But at least I think I am feeling where they split. When I feel the cervix, I see how it is moving. Then I slide my hand palm down back a little more on the floor of the pelvis. At that point I usually feel the two horns of the uterus under my hand. I can flex my index finger back toward me or better said pick with it and feel out about where the fork is. On some it is very dramatic how clear the feeling is.

My hands are in pretty good shape having pushed a pencil most of my life. My hands are small and forearms are thin. I don't know if that is the secret. I will say that the instructor encouraged us to explore the anatomy during the two days of practical work on the 45 cows we used. We also had a couple pregnant cows that he used to train us briefly on palpation.

You can't feel it. ;-) The area where you can feel the tip of your gun on most cows is about the size of a quarter but the area where you want to dump semen is about the size of a dime. The split between the horns happens inside the uterine body and the tip of your gun will still feel like it's in the right spot if you're going from the horns back with your inside arm but you're likely half an inch to deep. You may be horn breeding and not realize it.

 

[inyati13]

I feel the horns on around ten percent of what I breed. Usually it's on accident as I reach in to grab and don't feel anything and when I come back I wind up with the horns in my hand. I never use them as an indication of where to deposit semen as you cannot feel where the horns split. You CAN feel the very end of the cervix.

Forgive me CP and I know your light dwarfs mine in this arena. Maybe I have delicate feminine hands and you have hit yours too many times with a hammer. :lol: But at least I think I am feeling where they split. When I feel the cervix, I see how it is moving. Then I slide my hand palm down back a little more on the floor of the pelvis. At that point I usually feel the two horns of the uterus under my hand. I can flex my index finger back toward me or better said pick with it and feel out about where the fork is. On some it is very dramatic how clear the feeling is.

My hands are in pretty good shape having pushed a pencil most of my life. My hands are small and forearms are thin. I don't know if that is the secret. I will say that the instructor encouraged us to explore the anatomy during the two days of practical work on the 45 cows we used. We also had a couple pregnant cows that he used to train us briefly on palpation.

You can't feel it. ;-) The area where you can feel the tip of your gun on most cows is about the size of a quarter but the area where you want to dump semen is about the size of a dime. The split between the horns happens inside the uterine body and the tip of your gun will still feel like it's in the right spot if you're going from the horns back with your inside arm but you're likely half an inch to deep. You may be horn breeding and not realize it.

Ok. Now you are making sense. Got you. Your point is not that you cannot feel a split but that there is an internal divide that is not necessarily where that external split is. That is a good point.

 

[Putangitangi]

That was what I was going to try to get to, Ron. I looked for a picture of a dissected uterus with cervix, but the one I have is a bit unclear. I chopped it open to discover exactly where the split happened internally.

 

[regolith]

We were taught to go all the way in and palpate the entire tract to reduce the risk of ai'ing a pregnant cow. And like someone said it helps to stay familiar with the tract for preg checking

How often have you seen a bred cow in full standing heat?

Two within the last fortnight, that's why I got the vet out. Out of the four cows in heat recently that shouldn't have been it was two slipped and two false heats.
It's rare enough, but does happen.

I've tried checking the horns sometimes on a long return but some cows will fool you & I noticed one 2 yr old this year both horns were really turgid when I bred her and presumed it was something to do with the heat hormones because she certainly wasn't pregnant. Wasn't looking for the horns, they were swollen enough you couldn't miss them.