Fecal Samples.

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Anonymous

I am interested in analyzing fecal samples. Do any of you do this and how can I go about getting started? What type of microscope would be best? Thanks for any help.
>Rod
 
OP
A

Anonymous

You could do a symple exam with a 10X scope, 20X, 30X and 40X are much better. Are you just wanting to do a fecal float to check for parasite load (eggs/cysts)?

There are several brands of scopes, Ziess(SP) is very good, German craftsmanship is excellent!

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A

Anonymous

> You could do a symple exam with a
> 10X scope, 20X, 30X and 40X are
> much better. Are you just wanting
> to do a fecal float to check for
> parasite load (eggs/cysts)?

> There are several brands of
> scopes, Ziess(SP) is very good,
> German craftsmanship is excellent!

Michelle, I don't know how a fecal float is conducted. Is that were they use a centrifuge? I would like to be able to identify different parasites and their eggs through a microscope. I was hoping you or someone could tell me what other tools are involved and recommend a good book that is for identifying parasites and their eggs. Or maybe there is a video on this. I wanted to get a scope that I could also check semen with. Sorry if I'm not conveying this very well. I know nothing about what is involved in testing for parasites. Thanks for your reply.
> Rod
 
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A

Anonymous

For a symple fecal float you put a fresh fecal sample in a vial, add salt water, salt water should be to the strength that no more salt can be disolved, fill vial, adgitate by hand, then fill till a miniscus forms at the top of the vial, waite several minutes.

Then take a microscope slide, touch to the top of the miniscus, and view under the scope at 20X, looking for eggs and cysts, or anything that does not look like normal fiber particles or seeds in a fecal sample.

For semen you need a much higher power, 60X at least, higher is better. Any lower power will only show little flickers as sperm move, view under a cover slip for best results,

Why are you needing to use a scope? Have you had trouble getting good quality semen in the past and now want to check it on a regular basis? Best to use semen from a very reputable Bull Stud with a Proven Post Thaw Check Record, Elgin Breeding Service is without question the best, if it does not meet their high standard it goes in the trash. You can learn more about Elgin Breeding Service, I have a link to them on my wed site. <A HREF="http://www.kemilimousin.com" TARGET="_blank">www.kemilimousin.com</A> on the links page.

[email protected]
 
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A

Anonymous

All CSS cerified studs/collectors must meet very high standards to remain certified. A problem sometimes exists when the various semen jockeys get to moving semen around a lot.

dun

> For a symple fecal float you put a
> fresh fecal sample in a vial, add
> salt water, salt water should be
> to the strength that no more salt
> can be disolved, fill vial,
> adgitate by hand, then fill till a
> miniscus forms at the top of the
> vial, waite several minutes.

> Then take a microscope slide,
> touch to the top of the miniscus,
> and view under the scope at 20X,
> looking for eggs and cysts, or
> anything that does not look like
> normal fiber particles or seeds in
> a fecal sample.

> For semen you need a much higher
> power, 60X at least, higher is
> better. Any lower power will only
> show little flickers as sperm
> move, view under a cover slip for
> best results,

> Why are you needing to use a
> scope? Have you had trouble
> getting good quality semen in the
> past and now want to check it on a
> regular basis? Best to use semen
> from a very reputable Bull Stud
> with a Proven Post Thaw Check
> Record, Elgin Breeding Service is
> without question the best, if it
> does not meet their high standard
> it goes in the trash. You can
> learn more about Elgin Breeding
> Service, I have a link to them on
> my wed site. <A HREF="http://www.kemilimousin.com" TARGET="_blank">www.kemilimousin.com</A>
> on the links page.
 
OP
A

Anonymous

> For a symple fecal float you put a
> fresh fecal sample in a vial, add
> salt water, salt water should be
> to the strength that no more salt
> can be disolved, fill vial,
> adgitate by hand, then fill till a
> miniscus forms at the top of the
> vial, waite several minutes.

> Then take a microscope slide,
> touch to the top of the miniscus,
> and view under the scope at 20X,
> looking for eggs and cysts, or
> anything that does not look like
> normal fiber particles or seeds in
> a fecal sample.

> For semen you need a much higher
> power, 60X at least, higher is
> better. Any lower power will only
> show little flickers as sperm
> move, view under a cover slip for
> best results,

> Why are you needing to use a
> scope? Have you had trouble
> getting good quality semen in the
> past and now want to check it on a
> regular basis? Best to use semen
> from a very reputable Bull Stud
> with a Proven Post Thaw Check
> Record, Elgin Breeding Service is
> without question the best, if it
> does not meet their high standard
> it goes in the trash. You can
> learn more about Elgin Breeding
> Service, I have a link to them on
> my wed site. <A HREF="http://www.kemilimousin.com" TARGET="_blank">www.kemilimousin.com</A>
> on the links page.

Michelle, I checked out your sight on my lunch hour. You have some fine looking animals. Thanks for the information. I would like the option of being able to check semen. You never know how it has been handled. Last year I received a shipment that took eleven days. UPS, not the suppliers fault. The canister still had good vapor so I excepted it. This year I talked to one representative of the company I get my semen from and they informed me that there was one bull that when the semen was thawed it didn't show good viability and that they would replace it plus the ones I used. I think they are a good company, but I am not committed to them.

The way my eye sight is going I might need 60x to read the paper before long.

> Rod
 

flaboy

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Michelle":1u3661gp said:
For a symple fecal float you put a fresh fecal sample in a vial, add salt water, salt water should be to the strength that no more salt can be disolved, fill vial, adgitate by hand, then fill till a miniscus forms at the top of the vial, waite several minutes.

Michelle, it sounds like you have some experience in this area. I have a heifer I am raising as a replacement. I don't really know her background. I bought an Blk Angus and a Blk Brangus at the same time. The Brangus is responding to worming and feed very well. The Angus not so well. She has a pot belly and the hip bone area is not rounding out like it should. She appears to not be progressing at all. She has mange mites and I just wormed her for a second time in two months. I think that is getting better. I did a fecal analysis last night to see if I could identify what might be up with her. I am definitely not an expert in this area. I see a lot of very round objects that everything I read says is air bubbles. Under the scope they look like donuts. There seems to be a lot of them and I wonder if they are truly air bubbles or something else. I see no other signs of any type of eggs. I would appreciate your opinion. I know with seeing it is hard to say but maybe you could make a guess. Thanks
 

flaboy

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sidney411":125fcfrw said:
Flaboy- this post is 2 years old. I haven't seen Michelle post in a long time, I doubt you will get a response back from her.

OK, thanks. I just did a search and didn't pay attention to the date.
 

Chuckie

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flaboy, I was glad you pulled this up. I found it interesting about checking for parasites. It sounds reasonable to check any drops left on the semen straws. I would be upset if the container took longer to get there. These things do happen with any company that has several people handling the product in different areas. All it takes is one incompetent person at a company to mess it up. Someone could mess up the label with a bad zip code, or a label could have been torn and one of the sorters assumed that it went to a different state with the same town with many packages passing by very quickly. The packages are sometimes sent to different hubs where each package is handled. Some shipments are sent directly from city to city, depending on the bulk load. But it will still pass through several people this way. Now since modern technology has arrived, each package can be traced through the internet. You can follow it each day. UPS refunds any costs lost on this type of problem. The shipper is the one that collects. If I had any doubt, I would have called the shipper and tell them what is going on and have a replacement sent immediately. Then send back the container with the original shipment. I would also have ordered it way ahead of time in case this type of problem did arise.
 

flaboy

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Chuckie":dtxu6q6t said:
flaboy, I was glad you pulled this up. I found it interesting about checking for parasites. It sounds reasonable to check any drops left on the semen straws. I would be upset if the container took longer to get there. These things do happen with any company that has several people handling the product in different areas. All it takes is one incompetent person at a company to mess it up. Someone could mess up the label with a bad zip code, or a label could have been torn and one of the sorters assumed that it went to a different state with the same town with many packages passing by very quickly. The packages are sometimes sent to different hubs where each package is handled. Some shipments are sent directly from city to city, depending on the bulk load. But it will still pass through several people this way. Now since modern technology has arrived, each package can be traced through the internet. You can follow it each day. UPS refunds any costs lost on this type of problem. The shipper is the one that collects. If I had any doubt, I would have called the shipper and tell them what is going on and have a replacement sent immediately. Then send back the container with the original shipment. I would also have ordered it way ahead of time in case this type of problem did arise.

I was able to determine what I was seeing was round worms. I found a better picture on the web. Now I know I am treating the right worms. I will do another check in a week to see if I have made an improvement on the count. What I think may have happened was because of her shaggy hair and rain she didn't get the full dose like the Brangus short hair did. Of course I was told they have been vaccinated and wormed. Both of which I suspect did not happen. Now I know who NOT to buy from. These two are just a little side experiment I am playing with.
 

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flaboy, I like the way you investigated the symptoms and what was happening with your cow. I have two cows that have long hair still hanging on. They have lost the hair at the top of their bodies, but a reddish winter coat still looks like it wants to hang on about mid ways. I wormed them again a week ago. The others have all slicked off to a nice short coat. I noticed that you wrote about using your microscope. What microscope did you buy to be able to check stool and semen samples? I looked up some refurbished microscopes and the prices. Where did you purchase the one you have?
 

flaboy

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Chuckie":kigvis59 said:
flaboy, I like the way you investigated the symptoms and what was happening with your cow. I have two cows that have long hair still hanging on. They have lost the hair at the top of their bodies, but a reddish winter coat still looks like it wants to hang on about mid ways. I wormed them again a week ago. The others have all slicked off to a nice short coat. I noticed that you wrote about using your microscope. What microscope did you buy to be able to check stool and semen samples? I looked up some refurbished microscopes and the prices. Where did you purchase the one you have?

You need something in the X 100 to X500 magnification range. Mine goes up to x400. You need one with a back light also. Supplies are available on the WEB cheap. I picked up mine off of eBAY. If I were to do it again I would get a double holer. One that I can look in with both eyes. I think they are easier on the eyes.
 

Chuckie

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Flaboy, what are you calling cheap for a microscope? They run high to me, but I am not familiar with microscopes. I also noticed that the two holers (bionocular) are more expensive too. I suffer from sticker shot everytime I see the price of something that I am not used to buying.
 

dun

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It woould take an awful big bunch of them to beat the 3 bucks our vet charges.

dun
 

flaboy

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dun":2pft2i3a said:
It woould take an awful big bunch of them to beat the 3 bucks our vet charges.

dun

While I do agree with Dun, it is almost impossible to get a large animal vet around here. Some of the LA vets no longer will look at them. We have a family friend who was a retired vet (he always took care of our stock) and his son took over. He came up twice and then said he no longer messes with large animals because of travel/danger. Most LA vets will do horses because horse people have all the $$$. :lol:

Now with that said Chuckie, I think Dun was referring to grabbing a fresh sample and taking it into the vet. Correct me if I am wrong Dun. That might be an option to you instead of doing it yourself. I asked my dogs vet and she said nope won't do it. Most will though.

Chuckie, back to your question. I think I looked for weeks before a found a deal on ebay. Be patient don't get caught up in the bidding wars. I have had mine for a long time but I think I paid around $100. You will find some from labs and such that have gone out of business. They are used but work good. I bought a one holer too as I only use it when I must.
 

dun

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flaboy":1w1vcse8 said:
While I do agree with Dun, it is almost impossible to get a large animal vet around here. Some of the LA vets no longer will look at them. We have a family friend who was a retired vet (he always took care of our stock) and his son took over. He came up twice and then said he no longer messes with large animals because of travel/danger. Most LA vets will do horses because horse people have all the $$$. :lol:

Now with that said Chuckie, I think Dun was referring to grabbing a fresh sample and taking it into the vet. Correct me if I am wrong Dun. That might be an option to you instead of doing it yourself. I asked my dogs vet and she said nope won't do it. Most will though.

Chuckie, back to your question. I think I looked for weeks before a found a deal on ebay. Be patient don't get caught up in the bidding wars. I have had mine for a long time but I think I paid around $100. You will find some from labs and such that have gone out of business. They are used but work good. I bought a one holer too as I only use it when I must.

The more I hear about the problems folks have with vets it sure makes our little difficulties seem pretty puny.
I noticed the vet was putting up a working area and sweep behind the clinic. I asked him if he was going to get like other LA vets and only work out of the clinic. He said no, he couldn;t stand to be in one place that long.

dun
 

Chuckie

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It would be definitely be cheaper to carry it to the vet. I would find it more of a learning tool and I could check any cow at any time. I might give an example of a man buying wood working tools and building a shop to make some furniture when it would be easier and cheaper to just go buy the furniture. I would find a satisfaction of doing it all myself and I try to bypass the vet as much as I can.
 

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Chuckie":15n05gqa said:
It would be definitely be cheaper to carry it to the vet. I would find it more of a learning tool and I could check any cow at any time. I might give an example of a man buying wood working tools and building a shop to make some furniture when it would be easier and cheaper to just go buy the furniture. I would find a satisfaction of doing it all myself and I try to bypass the vet as much as I can.

i tend to think the same way... it seems like it would be a useful tool to be able to use. and over time, it may be even be cheaper than a vet because you would tend to keep a closer eye on your stock, imo. i figure i would check way more cattle if i had my own setup, than i ever will take to the vet.

out of curiousity, i wonder how many on these boards check their own bull's fertility instead of taking him to the vet??

jt
 

flaboy

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Chuckie":7c4hqy7d said:
It would be definitely be cheaper to carry it to the vet. I would find it more of a learning tool and I could check any cow at any time. I might give an example of a man buying wood working tools and building a shop to make some furniture when it would be easier and cheaper to just go buy the furniture. I would find a satisfaction of doing it all myself and I try to bypass the vet as much as I can.

Yeah I agree too Chuckie. I figured this young heifer was having some sort of worm problem but since I had wormed her 3 weeks earlier and the mange mites and her body health wasn't improving so I decided to look and see what I could see. As I reported earlier I saw round worms. I then took another look at my wormer (Ivomec) to make sure it covered this and it did. So at this point I deduced either the first treatment had been partially washed off (pour on) or because she was fuzzy it didn't get into her skin properly. A third possibility is she was so infested she needed a second dose. So I went right out to the little pen I keep replacement heifers in and gave her another dose. I can already see the difference in the mange mite skin problems. Body condition takes much longer to see though. I will do another fecal look see this weekend to see if I have them under control now or not. This gives me the immediate advantage of treating right away instead of a day or two. Plus I can do follow ups to make sure I took care of it.

Now with all this said, you can expect to see some worms as this is natural. The trick is to determine if there are too many or not. In my case it was apparent.

Now if I could just do this for the little heifer I am selling as a show calf to determine how long after I take her off her dam it will take her get on feed would be nice. I usually don't do this so it is new to me. I usually wean them by taking them to market. I am on my third type of feed now. Just bought a bag of sweet horse feed to try tonight. The other won't go to waste as I will feed it to the replacements anyway.
 

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