Farm welfare or subsidies

[plumber_greg]

djwnia, I know what you're saying, but without this beaurcacy everyone bitches about, the country would collapse. That's why there is checks and balances. Yes, we will have a current president htat will make mistakes, but hopefully the next check on the system will correct that. I don't agree with everything in the farm program, and sure as heck didn't agree with the bank bailout, but I had no other answer that I thought would work, not smart enough. But to let everyone sink or swim all at once, I am sure won't work, we'll be speaking Chinesee.
I also don't agree with the big boys gettin' all the money, but it's a free country and the opportunity for you to have big britches was there, you just didn't take the chance when you should have or you're scared to now. Just because you're scared to owe a million dollars, don't deny the next wannabe millionaire the opportunity. gs

 

[highgrit]

I purchased some land that was getting subsidies from crp, and crop. We went down to the FSA office and bought our land back from them. I feel subsidies are B.S. I don't want my taxes going to pay for rich farmers or ranchers. If you receive gov. subsidies and don't need them you should be jailed for fraud. Just because Jo Blow gets it, dosen't mean I half to. I have checked the farm.ewg.org list 3 years ago and in the three counties surrounding me, all the top ten subsidies recipients have plenty of land and money. I see stuff like that and think its just not fair, pretty tuff to compete with them. I don't want goverment in my stuff,I can be my own man, don't need welfare, and I am going to live my life as a conservative and not just pretend to be one. THANK YOU

 

[tncattle]

I might never make it big like I want to but I don't want any $ from the gov. because it's just $ taken from all of us and redistributed out. Realize that the gov. doesn't earn or make $ they simply take it from all of us by making up stupid and useless regualtions & laws. It's so unbelievably corrupt the avg. citizen would be astonished if they knew how much of OUR $ is simply wasted.

 

[wheatfarmer]

There is a lot of the money goes to pay for federal crop insurance. This, by far, is where the majority of our subsidies goes. It is insane what crop insurance costs w/o the government sub.

 

[TexasBred]

There is a lot of the money goes to pay for federal crop insurance. This, by far, is where the majority of our subsidies goes. It is insane what crop insurance costs w/o the government sub.

It's also insane how farmers abuse the crops insurance as well. Farmers around here could care less what the crop produces. Sometimes it seems the only reason they harvest is so they can turn in the info the insurance co. and get the real money.

 

[backhoeboogie]

What upsets me the worse is that when a person does not apply for any assisstance and does not take out any insurance, you still have to answer questions. They send out surveys with notations indicating that you must respond or break the law. I plant wheat, oats, rye etc. All I am doing is grazing it (if it happens to rain). No harvesting. I don't see how its anyone's business or why I have to answer if I am not marketing it. They don't ask about coastal grass in the summer.

You look through the lists of those folks on assistance and see Dr's, Vets, Dentists, fat cat bankers, land developers etc.

 

[I luv herfrds]

Alright back yourselves up boys and girls.

Now speaking as a FARMER we get $3500 a year in subsidies.
Our cost last year on our hail insurance was $6500. Fuel costs was over $7000 to run our tractors to culivate, plant and harvest our grain and hay crop.
Parts and equipment repair ran us around $2000.
Property taxes were over $3000
I can go on and on.

If you bothered to follow the grain market, which right now is up quite a bit, you would see for the amount that is raised to FEED EVERYONE cost more to produce then the average farmer gets paid for this product.
We are not breaking even.

As my MIL always said, "Land rich and cash poor."

Right now we are trying to pencil to buy a 1983 JD 8820 Titan combine to replace our 1970 JD 7700 combine.
We cannot afford the new stuff.

Maybe you guys need to stop looking at the guys who have it all and look at the guys who don't.

I do not agree with these guys with tons of money buying a farm to make a loss so they get a tax break and get subsidies, but DO NOT lump those of us who make a living farming and ranching into the same group.

 

[backhoeboogie]

All I am really doing in this thread is placing my position (how I feel) about the programs. I am not judging anyone.

I am not wearing a brown, red or blue shirt today. It happens to be orange. If it was your choice not to wear orange, that does not make you wrong or me right.

I too have fencing costs, flood repairs costs, fertilizer costs, feed costs, med costs, seed costs, huge fuel bills and I can go on and on and on.

I have also mentioned many times that I got burned out in '90 losing 3 barns, fences etc etc. Some fool was burning days before on another road miles away and it smoldered until we got 45 mile an hour west winds. A whole bunch of us lost our donkeys in that.

I have also mentioned that I have not chosen this profession full time since I did not want to put all of my eggs in one basket so I still have a full time engineering job to sustain me and the grandchildren I am raising. My bottom line is not in the black every year so I have to do something else.

My position on this whole issue is simply a position.

 

[marksmu]

I can see it both ways....

As a strict conservative, I am against any form of a subsidy, or the government telling anyone anything about their own property. When you get a subsidy you relinquish certain rights to the government, such as the ability to drain, modify, relocate wetlands, ditches, etc. You also lose control over Farmed Wetland (FW) and everyday wetlands....you lose the ability to drill a water well where you want, (if your county has no restrictions like many in SE Texas do not) and to plant what you want I am against all these things. The government needs to stay out of our business completely, and let the chips the fall where they fall....that is my conservative mindset.

Now comes my selfish greedy mind set. My wife and I went to college for 7 years each...4 in undergrad and 3 in law school. We both came out with significant debt. She got a great job, and makes great money. That means we are paying 35% of our income to these fat cat governments, who waste it on worthless programs like welfare, drug addiction, and Haiti aid....I see the amount of money that comes out in taxes from the two of ours checks from our day jobs and its sickening.

Do not get me wrong - we are both exceptionally fortunate and thank god every day for our blessings....My wife is incredibly smart, and driven beyond belief....she has earned every penny she makes. But we bought a Ranch 4 years ago....I eventually want to quit office work and do it full time...but currently its not feasible...I am still starting up on a 9 year plan. I have to make it cash flow. We dont have $100,000 to dump in start up costs, and after the purchase I was able to budget only $10,000 to buy startup equipment and cattle. So I sink what I can each year out of pocket to keep the operation growing. from 40 cattle over a year ago up to 70 this year with 12 more on the way....With a carrying capacity of 300 pairs, I have a long way to go before I am there, but I reinvest every penny earned into more cattle. My goal is to get out of the office, work the ranch, and have a small law firm helping farmers/ranchers with contracts and simple local disputes.

My property was sold with a year/year subsidy....I had the option to take it, or pay a rollback tax to end it. I took the subsidy. The Gov't gives me $12,000/yr as a rice base, not to farm it, and not to utilize my water rights....Is it wrong to take the $12,000? Well I pay $3500 of it back immediately in income taxes (ordinary income) and of the remaining $8,500, $3,000 goes to State/Local property taxes, leaving me with $5500 after taxes have been paid. I use the money every single year on the ranch, and in the County. I buy fence materials to expand my cross fencing and I do the work myself. I bought a used cattle trailer this year, and paid a local custom hay bailer to cut/bail a pasture I could not utilize because I did not have enough cattle....None of it is wasted, none of it goes towards non-essentials, and all of was used for agriculture, and not to pay the mortgage....I pay the mortgage from our Day jobs...I suffer intolerably behind a computer to be able to build the ranch for my future. I am sacrificing doing what I dont want to do now, so I can do what I want once I am financially able to do so. I am actually trying to make the ranch a real business that will eventually cash flow. I just am not there yet.

The way I see it, is this....the money is there. Its available, if I don't take it and actually use it for what it was intended for, then some POS who sits on their rear watching TV all day and drinking beer will get it. We paid in far more than our fair share...we paid in taxes more than 50% of America makes, and we use less in resources than many people who pay far less than we do....I have no guilt whatsoever of taking some of that back and using it for myself to do something I want.

I look forward to the day that I get out of this office, end the subsidy, and get full control of the property back to myself...but in the mean time, the subsidy is actually helping me to work towards a future goal, and it is helping my co-op who I purchase materials from, the rancher I bought the old trailer from, the older gentlemen who cut my hay, and the local fuel company who delivers the diesel we use to keep our tractors running. None was wasted.

 

[wheatfarmer]

There is a lot of the money goes to pay for federal crop insurance. This, by far, is where the majority of our subsidies goes. It is insane what crop insurance costs w/o the government sub.

It's also insane how farmers abuse the crops insurance as well. Farmers around here could care less what the crop produces. Sometimes it seems the only reason they harvest is so they can turn in the info the insurance co. and get the real money.

My opinion on this is:
Playing the insurance game doesn't work. Ex. Our county t-yield for wheat is around 24 bu./acre(this is high I think). If you insure it at the 75% level so your guarantee is 18 bu. acre. Your insurance would cost you around $9-18/ acre depending on ra, crc, enterprise, etc. Price was set at $5.42(I am looking at a quote for 2010). Guanantee of $97/acre - permium - all input costs( spary, plow, plant, harvest). Your $97 shrinks pretty fast expecially since you cannot grow continuous wheat in my area. You must fallow your ground 1 year then plant wheat the next. So the little money you have left has to pay you for 2 years.

This will be alot different now with $8-9 wheat. We also have had some neighbors who farm for insurance but it just never seems to work.

 

[Douglas]

The way I see it, is this....the money is there. Its available, if I don't take it and actually use it for what it was intended for, then some POS who sits on their rear watching TV all day and drinking beer will get it. We paid in far more than our fair share...we paid in taxes more than 50% of America makes, and we use less in resources than many people who pay far less than we do....I have no guilt whatsoever of taking some of that back and using it for myself to do something I want.

Don't blame you at all. You play the cards you are given. But if all the subsidies like farming, renewable fuels, solar, wind, oil, sugar, and the tax loopholes for business, plus all the traditional welfare programs. If they all went away, the lowered tax and regulatory burden would mean farmers wouldn't need any subsidies to get along

 

[novaman]

I was thinking about this subject while I was milking this morning. Had a few things pop into my head during that time. It seems many believe that farm subsidies are taking taxpayers hard earned money and handing it to the farmers. I realize there are some farmers that know how to work the system and abuse it. Taking a step back and looking at the big picture, we as a nation have one of the cheapest, best quality food supplies of any nation in history. My thoughts are those consumers who (despite what they believe) are getting cheap, wholesome food are in return paying taxes that sort of get back to the producer. Obviously there are middlemen who come into this cycle as well but the point is money is taken in the form of taxes but in return we are keeping food prices down. Just something to think about.

 

[Douglas]

Novaman while i appreciate what you do and understand that our food bill is very reasonable, you could make that same argument that many small businesses in this country provide equally important goods and services to the public and get no taxpayer support. People need houses to live in, medical care, reliable transportation, clothing etc. These products compete in the free market and if they lose money because their competitor is more efficient, or located in low costs china,there out of business and there is no "drought relief" or whatever coming along to help them. I was born and raised on the farm and still farm part time, and i saw(benefited from) the problems of the now ended tobacco program up close and it was not a pretty thing and there was no economic justification. Also 40% of corn crop, some of beans, and none of cotton go to food production.

 

[TexasBred]

Alright back yourselves up boys and girls.

Now speaking as a FARMER we get $3500 a year in subsidies.
Our cost last year on our hail insurance was $6500. Fuel costs was over $7000 to run our tractors to culivate, plant and harvest our grain and hay crop.
Parts and equipment repair ran us around $2000.
Property taxes were over $3000
I can go on and on.

If you bothered to follow the grain market, which right now is up quite a bit, you would see for the amount that is raised to FEED EVERYONE cost more to produce then the average farmer gets paid for this product.
We are not breaking even.

As my MIL always said, "Land rich and cash poor."

Right now we are trying to pencil to buy a 1983 JD 8820 Titan combine to replace our 1970 JD 7700 combine.
We cannot afford the new stuff.

Maybe you guys need to stop looking at the guys who have it all and look at the guys who don't.

I do not agree with these guys with tons of money buying a farm to make a loss so they get a tax break and get subsidies, but DO NOT lump those of us who make a living farming and ranching into the same group.

I luv are you telling me you can't make money on $6.00 corn and $9.00 wheat?? Sounds like you need to quit farming or get a new CPA. I can only speak for the guys I know and they ain't buying no used equipment and most get anywhere from half a million up every year from gov't subsidies.

 

[Douglas]

Another thing I would like to ask is -is this the only period in our recent history when the farm economy was so good when the rest of the economy was so bad. In my economic courses years ago, down periods on the farm often preceded down periods in the general economy. Now the government's mandated use of ethanol has spurred tremendous opportunity for farmers that few others in our society can identify with. I am happy for the hardworking farmers, but at the same time discouraged that there at still what I consider unjustified subsidies and import tariffs that cost other hardworking people and future generations opportunities . Again other industries have things they don't deserve either.

 

[novaman]

Novaman while i appreciate what you do and understand that our food bill is very reasonable, you could make that same argument that many small businesses in this country provide equally important goods and services to the public and get no taxpayer support. People need houses to live in, medical care, reliable transportation, clothing etc. These products compete in the free market and if they lose money because their competitor is more efficient, or located in low costs china,there out of business and there is no "drought relief" or whatever coming along to help them. I was born and raised on the farm and still farm part time, and i saw(benefited from) the problems of the now ended tobacco program up close and it was not a pretty thing and there was no economic justification. Also 40% of corn crop, some of beans, and none of cotton go to food production.

You're probably right. It was just some thoughts I had and thought it would be interesting to hear what others had to say. It always sounds better in my mind than how it really is. I just remember hearing somewhere that you can't have a strong country without a cheap source of food, or something to that extent.

 

[uscangus]

Early last year or two, they pushed and pushed this esthanol of 10% in our gas. a lot of farmer got sucked into
farming for corn to ethanol. even, Bill Gates got sucked into the govt for pushing ethanol as alternate fuel when gas was high. Also, these farmers and producers such as Pacific ethanols(By Bill Gates-made some monies shorting it before it collapsed) and others were sold in sinkers like lost sheep. Most ethanol plants went busts,especially public trading companies.

the poor farmers that joined the ride also went bust and foreclosed all their business because they could not pay their
new machineries. boy, john deere and other machineries made a killing. i recalled there were a lot of new tractors that were selling at a bargain prices(farmers were returning it).

now, someone cried wolf again that gas could go up to $5 gallon at the end of the year,and earlier last year the govt is pushing now 15% of ethanol. here,we go again. now, farmers are back going into corn.

what so sad is that ethanol reduces your mpg about 35% on 10% ethanol. imagines if it is 15% ethanol. ethanol burned your gas faster and reduces product. we have been sold, once again. i am tired of being a city dentist and hoping to pursue farming full time, like the lawyer said earlier., uscangus.

 

[I luv herfrds]

TB we don't raise corn.
Are you talking winter or spring wheat?
we also raise malt barley, but if it doesn't go malt then it is feed barley. Lower price and that goes by hundred weight. 48 lbs. make a bushel.

highest price we ever got was $7.54 a bushel. Let's see a loaf of bread costs around here $2.58. One bushel makes 71 loaves of bread. Do the math.

our CPA does a good job, we just don't double dip or do insurance farming.

Maybe you should talk to my neighbors who use the subsidies to make their land payments. I've been told, by several, they would have gone belly up and lost their places trying to buy any land.

Right now the elevators are putting out contracts for $9 bushel wheat, but it is this years crop, but if something happens and you don't cut a crop at all you are liable for it. It can be rolled over to the next year though.
If I want to gamble I'll go to Vegas, but since we farm that is a biggest enough gamble.