Everyday brings something new! Manure runoff in well water!

[ny_grass]

Greetings!

Last week the water started running cloudy out of the faucet. I didn't think much about it as temperatures were in the 40s and 50s so the snow and ice were melting. I assumed that our 20' dug well was just getting some sediment from all the melt. The problem has persisted; even now with the temps dipping back into the single digits at night (will this winter ever end!?), the well water is cloudy.

Now, here's the thing, my 14 cattle live about 100' from the well. The water from the melt tend to flow North, further away from the well. However, I wouldn't be surprised if some of it, once it gets underground, might not be heading toward the well. There is a slight smell to the water but I wouldn't say that it's manurish; more like rusty.

I'm going to get the water tested tomorrow so I'll know for sure how polluted it is (if it is). Problem is my Berkey water filter's two filter elements have been severely clogged so I'm having to buy bottled water. I'm also not sure that even bathing in this water might not be a bad idea (googling it found some reports of people's wells being contaminated by manure runoff and making people sick, giving kids earaches, etc...).

So, anyone ever have this happen? How bad is it? Did you dump a gallon of bleach in the well, let it sit and then run it through all the pipes in the house? I wonder how long it'll take for it clear up.

Damn, I guess I'll be over-winter the cows somewhere else next year which is unfortunate given that I've already build a small pole barn for them here! ;-(

Thanks
JR

 

[Jogeephus]

Sounds more like one or more of the sides of your well has collapsed and you are tasting dirt. You are talking hand dug well right? If this is the case you can climb down in it and use a mud pump to dig the sediment out. Not a fun job. I seriously doubt there is any manure in the well if the cows are 100 foot from the well and your well is cased to prevent surface runoff from getting in it. If your well is old and on the decline you might consider washing another deeper well near this one before you give out of water completely.

 

[tmlonghorns]

Ya I am not sure you have a manure issue here. Keep us posted though.

 

[ny_grass]

Sounds more like one or more of the sides of your well has collapsed and you are tasting dirt. You are talking hand dug well right? If this is the case you can climb down in it and use a mud pump to dig the sediment out. Not a fun job. I seriously doubt there is any manure in the well if the cows are 100 foot from the well and your well is cased to prevent surface runoff from getting in it. If your well is old and on the decline you might consider washing another deeper well near this one before you give out of water completely.

Yeah, it's hand/backhoe dug, 3' wide from edge to edge. It's got concrete sides (pipe like things that sit on top of each other) and is about 20' deep. I've been down in it before (don't ask) and it seem very solid. Hard time seeing how it could have collapsed, though, of course, tomorrow I'll take a look.

Here's one thing I didn't mention in the original post: I had a local guy run a line (1" 160PSI black hose) from where the outlet leaves the well for the house, out to the new heated waterer I put in last fall. He dug the trench down about 4 feet. So, perhaps this newly dug (actually that was dug about 2 years ago - took me awhile to get the money to buy the waterer) trench is allowing manure run off to get closer to the well than it otherwise might? The area right in front of the waterer, of course, is very manure saturated.

Another thing. If you pour a glass of water from the faucet and let it sit, it doesn't appear that anything actually settles out to the bottom of the glass. It's like the water just been colored/dyed (with, I guess, extremely small particles that aren't heavy enough to drop).

But, thanks for commenting; good to hear that it's not obviously manure runoff ... ;-)

JR

 

[Angus Cowman]

for onething a 20ft deep well isn't deep enough to begin with
our state law is a well has to be cased in pipe to a minimum of 100ft
even without the discoloration it would be very possible for you to be having cantamination by all sorts of things in your water because of the depth not because of the cows , with it no deeper than that your household sewer could be leaching into it also even from several 100 ft away

is it common in your area to have wells that shallow ?? or is this just an old well

 

[plumber_greg]

I'd have a talk with the guy that ran the line. Sounds like when he did it he didn't seal the top of the well very good. By top I mean at least the first tile and should be the second underground around the seam. Also look for where he put the pipe in the well, what did he seal the hole with? A gallon of bleach in a 20' well is too much. More like a half pint is needed.
Be sure all surface water is directed away from well, make a mound around it with dirt after sealing. You're filters probably ain't doin' much good, better sanatize it. The tests around here will only say our water is poisionus, don't drink it. Water in Mexico is bad for us also, but the Mexicians drink it with no trouble.
In short, seal well at least five foot down, dam all surface water away from well, small amount of clohrine, and you'll be fine. gs

 

[Jogeephus]

is it common in your area to have wells that shallow ?? or is this just an old well

AC, I have several of these and 20-30 feet is about all you can do once you hit the underground creek. Its sortof like baling water out of a battleship with a gaping hole in it with a bucket. You just can't shovel no more. Mud pump helps but even it can only pump so much water. In my area, these shallow wells get muddied when there is a wet spell. Especially if this follows a dry period. The creeks and caves that fill the well will erode and cave in. In time it will normally work itself out but its also letting you know there are going to be some issues later on. These wells aren't the best in the world but ours has served us for over a 100 years.

I'm with Greg on the water test. I can tell you its polluted before you get your test back and you will need to buy ..... product X or you will go blind and die and your children will all be born naked. The only way your manure could be getting into the well is through surface runoff. If its not this then you don't have a problem with it cause there are just to many things between the ground water and the manure to allow this to happen.

 

[Angus Cowman]

is it common in your area to have wells that shallow ?? or is this just an old well

AC, I have several of these and 20-30 feet is about all you can do once you hit the underground creek. quote]
You don't see many hand dug wells in this country
we have to drill all of ours my well here at the house is 325ft some places north and west of here the wells are 500- 900ft to get to good water

 

[dun]

is it common in your area to have wells that shallow ?? or is this just an old well

AC, I have several of these and 20-30 feet is about all you can do once you hit the underground creek. quote]
You don't see many hand dug wells in this country
we have to drill all of ours my well here at the house is 325ft some places north and west of here the wells are 500- 900ft to get to good water

At the old home place on the back of the property there are 2 wells like that. They are punched into the top of a cavern that's been dry for years. The state had a deal a while back that was going to fill the old wells to make them saver. When they dropped a camera into them they couldn;t see the ends in 2 directions.

 

[backhoeboogie]

The last one I had drilled went 600 feet thru a few water sands.

There's a place in the center of this county in live in that has a cavern about 125 feet down. I have heard stories about drillers losing their stem and bit when they hit it. "The bottom fell out" Don't know if that is true or not.

 

[Caustic Burno]

for onething a 20ft deep well isn't deep enough to begin with
our state law is a well has to be cased in pipe to a minimum of 100ft
even without the discoloration it would be very possible for you to be having cantamination by all sorts of things in your water because of the depth not because of the cows , with it no deeper than that your household sewer could be leaching into it also even from several 100 ft away

is it common in your area to have wells that shallow ?? or is this just an old well

I can't imagine a 20 foot well here that is only 580 feet short of water here.

 

[ny_grass]

for onething a 20ft deep well isn't deep enough to begin with
our state law is a well has to be cased in pipe to a minimum of 100ft
even without the discoloration it would be very possible for you to be having cantamination by all sorts of things in your water because of the depth not because of the cows , with it no deeper than that your household sewer could be leaching into it also even from several 100 ft away

is it common in your area to have wells that shallow ?? or is this just an old well

I think these dug wells were very common around here. I'm not exactly sure how old it is, but I'd guess at least 20 years (I'm pretty sure the guy who lived here before me didn't have it dug so that puts us back about 20 years). It's been a VERY reliable well; has only run dry when we've left the water on while watering the cattle.

My understanding of these types of wells is that, since they have non-porous walls and the top of the well sticks out 2-3' above the ground, the only water that comes in comes from the open bottom. All water here has made it's way through 20' of ground (at least) and has been sufficiently filtered by the earth. But, it would seem to me, that you could easily have springs or passages under ground where (contaminated) water could be introduced that might bypass some of the filtering of the ground.

Of course, despite this, I don't drink the water from the well. I bought a Berkey filter (this one: http://cart.berkeyfilters.com/bigberkey.aspx) which we fill up once a day for drinking water. Cooking water comes straight from the well. My wife, if the Berkey has run dry, will drink straight from the tap and has never had a problem. Of course, as far as a I know, all the prior residents drank from wells on the property (I have another one out front too), probably without any filtering.

Since it's been cold the water is looking much more clear today. I'm going to wait until it warms up again and, presumably, turns brownish again, before getting it tested.

 

[ny_grass]

I'd have a talk with the guy that ran the line. Sounds like when he did it he didn't seal the top of the well very good. By top I mean at least the first tile and should be the second underground around the seam. Also look for where he put the pipe in the well, what did he seal the hole with? A gallon of bleach in a 20' well is too much. More like a half pint is needed.
Be sure all surface water is directed away from well, make a mound around it with dirt after sealing. You're filters probably ain't doin' much good, better sanatize it. The tests around here will only say our water is poisionus, don't drink it. Water in Mexico is bad for us also, but the Mexicians drink it with no trouble.
In short, seal well at least five foot down, dam all surface water away from well, small amount of clohrine, and you'll be fine. gs

I've got a call in to him to ask about it. Your suggestion that he might not have sealed where the pipe comes into the well makes a lot of sense to me. The guy, however, has been doing wells in the area for, probably, 40 years (he's in his mid-60s) and is very competent. But, I don't recall seeing him reseal that area. He might not have thought he needed to because he tapped into the pipe outside the well. Perhaps it got jiggled though and the seal cracked/loosened?

The well itself sits up a bit of a hill. It's definitely higher than the surrounding area and there is no standing water within 30-40 feet (maybe more). I'd say though that because of manure/hay build up, the main area where the cattle feed has become higher than where the well is.

When I looked in the well just now I noticed that there is some degradation of the space between the 1st and 2nd "tiles" (the concrete cylinders that line the well), but I don't see any staining on the sides to indicate that water is getting in there. Same for where the pipe comes in. I'm going to make sure, when the next thaw comes (if it every happens!), that I look in the well and check that area again.

JR

 

[terra8186]

My quess is that your groundwater level is just a little higher and making the water a little more silty. Once the groundwater table falls back to normal levels, I bet it goes away.

 

[ny_grass]

My quess is that your groundwater level is just a little higher and making the water a little more silty. Once the groundwater table falls back to normal levels, I bet it goes away.

I heard from the guy who put in the pump and ran the line to my waterer. He shares your opinion and says that the ground water is really high right now.

He also told me that the spaces between the tiles aren't water tight and water can flow into the well from about 2-3' below ground level (where the top tile meets the 2nd). This seems problematic to me as I liked the idea that any water we're drinking has been filtered by 20' of earth. Oh, well ...

 

[Angus Cowman]

My quess is that your groundwater level is just a little higher and making the water a little more silty. Once the groundwater table falls back to normal levels, I bet it goes away.

I heard from the guy who put in the pump and ran the line to my waterer. He shares your opinion and says that the ground water is really high right now.

He also told me that the spaces between the tiles aren't water tight and water can flow into the well from about 2-3' below ground level (where the top tile meets the 2nd). This seems problematic to me as I liked the idea that any water we're drinking has been filtered by 20' of earth. Oh, well ...

if they are concrete tiles that should be an easy fix if you can get inside of the well
there is a product called dam-it or they might of changed the name to stop-it that is a hydraulic cement that we used to seal manholes with
just clean the joint real well and mix a small amount of this quick setting cement to a consistency of cake batter and trowel it into the seam of the tiles and it will expand and make a water tight seal

don't mix up very much at a time just enough that you can use in a few minutes as it sets very fast and you won't get it all used before it gets to hard and then it is wasted
should work well for you
goodluck

 

[Jogeephus]

Water does not move laterally very well at all until it hits a creek. The amount coming from the sides is going to be minimal. Do you have a roof over it or a pad around it? If not you should look into doing this otherwise you run the risk of loosing your whole casing in time just from the trickle of water that does run down the side of the casing. Repairing this is all but impossible.

 

[SRBeef]

...I think these dug wells were very common around here. I'm not exactly sure how old it is, but I'd guess at least 20 years (I'm pretty sure the guy who lived here before me didn't have it dug so that puts us back about 20 years). It's been a VERY reliable well; has only run dry when we've left the water on while watering the cattle.

My understanding of these types of wells is that, since they have non-porous walls and the top of the well sticks out 2-3' above the ground, the only water that comes in comes from the open bottom. All water here has made it's way through 20' of ground (at least) and has been sufficiently filtered by the earth. But, it would seem to me, that you could easily have springs or passages under ground where (contaminated) water could be introduced that might bypass some of the filtering of the ground.

Of course, despite this, I don't drink the water from the well. I bought a Berkey filter (this one: http://cart.berkeyfilters.com/bigberkey.aspx) which we fill up once a day for drinking water. Cooking water comes straight from the well. My wife, if the Berkey has run dry, will drink straight from the tap and has never had a problem. Of course, as far as a I know, all the prior residents drank from wells on the property (I have another one out front too), probably without any filtering.

Since it's been cold the water is looking much more clear today. I'm going to wait until it warms up again and, presumably, turns brownish again, before getting it tested.

I would have to agree that with all the chemicals in use today that 20 ft is not deep enough to bet the health of your family. And no commercial filter is going to get some of these chemicals out. Years ago a 20 ft dug well may have been ok but not today, especially if the casing is not tight/waterproof. I think there must be a rural loan program to get an old well filled/capped and a new one drilled. jmho.

Jim

 

[plumber_greg]

Sorry your plumber is wrong. Wells are make to accept ground water only. The top must be sealed, even 2or3' down, at least 5'. I know water is susposed to run between the cracks, but in the ground water vein, not the top of the well. You will always have cloudy water if it's not, e very time it rains. Bentonite clay works well for a sealant.
Not only are you contanamating your water, you are also contamamating the groundwater of your neighbors if surface water is allowed to enter your well. Us old plumbers, you said he'd been doing it for forty years, are sometimes difficult to make change. If there is any kind of DNR licensing authority in NY, I'm sure he either isn't lincensed or was grandfathered in and isn't aware what he is doing to the groundwater.
Please fix this, if not for your saftey then for the following generations. Once the grouondwater in an area in ruined, it always will be ruined. Sorry to get on my bandwagon, you ought to hear me preach about the damage onsite sewers can cause. I've just done, until I learned different, and seen so much hidden damage to the enviroment, it's scary. gs

 

[ny_grass]

if they are concrete tiles that should be an easy fix if you can get inside of the well
there is a product called dam-it or they might of changed the name to stop-it that is a hydraulic cement that we used to seal manholes with
just clean the joint real well and mix a small amount of this quick setting cement to a consistency of cake batter and trowel it into the seam of the tiles and it will expand and make a water tight seal

don't mix up very much at a time just enough that you can use in a few minutes as it sets very fast and you won't get it all used before it gets to hard and then it is wasted
should work well for you
goodluck

Good info, AC. I'm going to have a look at the sides when it starts to thaw. I would think that were lots of water coming in from the seems that I'd see water stains but it looks real clean.